[barbtalon]

Okay, I've scoured the internet for a solution to my problem but can't find a single similar case..

I have a 3.8 L 05 T&C Limited. A few weeks ago I noticed a fuel smell while driving, and after looking for the source, discovered my lower and upper intake manifold covered with gas on the inside. It even made its way into the PCV hose. I discovered no external leaks at all, and the smell only occurs while I'm driving.

I replaced the o ring seals on the injectors, but that hasn't fixed anything. Also, my model has the fuel pressure regulator in the tank with the fuel pump, not on the fuel rail.

My thoughts on possible causes:
-Vacuum leak, possibly at the intake manifold gasket.
-bad fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator.

Other than those, I don't know what could cause fuel to seep all the way against gravity into the upper intake manifold. I have no other symptoms besides the fuel smell and my OBDII scanner detects no codes.

Would greatly appreciate any help or advice.

 

[Road Ripper]

It's oil, not fuel inside the intake plenum. You unfortunately have an '05, which were bad for using oil. It is likely blowby from the PCV valve, getting into the intake plenum. You need to rig up a catch can between the PCV valve and the intake manifold, to collect the oil and keep it out of the intake manifolds.

 

[beretta96]

@Road Ripper Is the OP smelling fuel because the blowby is an oil/fuel mixture - allowing the resulting blowby fluid to adopt both the dominant darker color of the oil and the dominate fuel smell?

 

[marvinstockman]

Do you smell the fuel if it is sitting and idling. Let idle for 15 minutes to check it. You can also play with higher idle speeds.

 

[LEVY]

More likely a stuck open fuel injector.

If in fact it is fuel, then you need to fix it ASAP and do an oil change.

Have you noticed engine hard to start when cold?

 

[barbtalon]

Thanks for the responses.

Road Ripper I believe you are correct. I had assumed it was fuel due to the smell, but after wiping it down it certainly seems to be oil. I have a new PCV valve and will install that one tomorrow, and hopefully this will fix the oil leak. Installing a catch can would be a hassle but I could if I have to.

So is the fuel smell the blowby then? That's a normal operation of the PCV and shouldn't produce an odor should it?

The engine is not hard to start when cold, and yes, idling still produces the fuel smell.

 

[Special Edy]

The engine compartment produces a fuel smell? The exhaust? The interior? The undercarriage?

One possibility is the EVAP system. I haven't ever messed with or researched EVAP systems on Chrysler Minivans. But, I know that typically the fuel tank vent is routed to the charcoal canister when the vehicle is off, and rerouted to the intake manifold when the engine is running or at a certain RPM threshold. The engine is supposed to purge the charcoal canister by pulling air back through it.

If it only happens while it's running, you likely have a fuel leak. A vacuum leak would result in a lean engine, the engine would trim the injectors rich to compensate, but this is probably limited to 10-20% enrichment before it maxes out and goes lean.
You could pull the real time data stream from the OBD2 port with a handheld scanner. There should be a PID through the OBD2 port for Long Term Fuel Trim for Bank 1 and Bank 2. If this number is over roughly +/- 5%, you have a significant issue. AutoZone and O'Reilly RENT two different scanners capable of reading PIDs, the basic scanner they keep behind the counter to check engine codes on customer cars probably isn't sophisticated enough.

 

[Road Ripper]

Thanks for the responses.

Road Ripper I believe you are correct. I had assumed it was fuel due to the smell, but after wiping it down it certainly seems to be oil. I have a new PCV valve and will install that one tomorrow, and hopefully this will fix the oil leak. Installing a catch can would be a hassle but I could if I have to.

So is the fuel smell the blowby then? That's a normal operation of the PCV and shouldn't produce an odor should it?

The engine is not hard to start when cold, and yes, idling still produces the fuel smell.

Yup, blowby. 2005 3.8's were notorious for using oil, and if it's using/burning oil it will have excessive blowby. Even after 2005 they used oil, and we've theorized it was a change in parts or assembly practices that caused this. I have a 2004 3.8 and when I first got it it used oil, but then stopped. All I did was drive it, so it probably sat too long and the rust in the cylinders had to fill up with carbon to seal.

Be careful while changing the PCV valve and it's rubber seal in the plastic valve cover. The cover gets broken sometimes, then you need a new one. For this reason I first removed a PCV valve at the junkyard successfully, then bought that valve cover to have as a spare in case I broke mine while removing it. Usually the rubber seal that holds the valve dries up and cracks, allowing engine vacuum to pull oil past it all the time.

 

[jaag82899]

I had the same issue with my 2002 3.8l minivan. I replaced o’rings on fuel injectors, gaskets, etc. it ended up being the fuel rail. Fuel rail was around $89 a few years ago

 

[jaag82899]

I had the same issue with my 2002 3.8l minivan. I replaced o’rings on fuel injectors, gaskets, etc. it ended up being the fuel rail. Fuel rail was around $89.

 

[Road Ripper]

That's right, thanks for the reminder! Early 4th gen fuel rails had a pulsation dampener on top of it, close to the driver's side (transmission side) of the engine. It is a little metal cap that is crimped on, and sometimes it can leak. This was omitted from later model fuel rails, so possible to find a used one to swap in to permanently fix this issue.

 

[barbtalon]

I know it's been a few months, just wanted to post the conclusion to my problem and this thread. I changed the PCV valve, but that did not solve my issue. I then purchased and installed a catch can system, using some fuel line hose, hose barbs, and clamps. Total cost for the system was about $100. It's been 7+ months and I now no longer have the smell. Thank you to Road Ripper and all others who responded. I'll include some photos of my system, and also the fluid that the can has caught so far, in a subsequent post.

 

[barbtalon]

 

[ScuzziOne]

Peanut butter... not what I expected to see...

Usually a sign of water in your oil, but might just be condensation collecting in your catch can...

What does the oil look like on your dip-stick? If oil on dip-stick looks good then probably not a concern.

 

[Road Ripper]

Awesome! That's likely condensate, especially switching from winter to spring. Nice to see how much nasty stuff is being kept out of the engine.

 

[Westphal]

I have a catch can on my GTO, and the oil that condenses out in it looks like regular oil. That looks like a milkshake, which means you have coolant in your oil.

 

[Road Ripper]

If the bottom of the oil fill cap looks like that, then you have trouble. The condensate can be forming inside the catch can and mixing with the oil there, not inside the engine. Hmm, I've also seen milkshake under the oil cap during this time of the year from the wild temperature fluctuations, and still nothing wrong with the engine. Warming the engine up gets rid of the moisture that forms in the crankcase, and the water vapor in the catch can condenses there to water and mixes with the oil. If there's no coolant loss/leaking, then nothing to be worried about.

3rd gen and earlier engines (3.3, 3.8) had problems with the timing cover O-rings leaking after getting corrosion in the o-ring bore. The coolant could possibly leak inside the crankcase from there, but most times it only leaks to the outside. Some 2001 4th gen V6's still used o-rings in those same coolant ports, but later the timing cover was revised and a wider gasket was used, eliminating the o-rings. No timing cover coolant leaks reported since then, just the occasional alternator mounting ear breaking off necessitating changing the timing cover.

 

[FabricGATOR]

Does the milkshake taste like gasoline?

I liked Levy's suggestion of a dribbling injector... and Special Ed's thoughts on the EVAP system. Perhaps the EVAP system was jostled during the accumulator installation.

Regardless, ** Thank You ** for returning and giving the thread a conclusion and debriefing. Too many times I have searched online for [my fault] only to find many folks having the same issue, others helping with possible suggestions and then .... nothing.
WTF? what was done to finally fix the problem?

CHEERS!