2001 T&C No crank, no spark (Fuel Pump?)

386 Views 14 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Road Ripper, 5 h ago

Simpleton7016

Discussion Starter · 7 d ago

So my 2001 T&C (3.3 l) was running spectacularly until two months ago it would start after my sons soccer game. (Btw, I had just filled the gas tank less than 5 miles before). I had it towed home and posed some questions to the group under the thread “PCM Swap - VIN decoding”. I am just now getting around to troubleshooting the van.

The symptoms: I had a no crank, no spark situation. There was a single click at the starter relay. When I jumped pins 87 and 30, it spun just fine, but no spark. I read every forum post I could find and was pretty sure it had to be the TransmissionRange Sensor (TRS). I was finally going to perform the necessary surgery this weekend, but decided first to test all the relays and fuses on more time. Everything checked out except there was a very light ‘spark’ when I was plugging in the fuel pump fuse. I went in the cabin and the van fired right up. I drove it a few miles and everything was great. I turned it off and tried to start it again and same issue. I pulled the two circled fuses, wiggled around the female ends, plugged the fuses back in and voila, she started again. After nearly a dozen driving cycles, the symptoms are somewhat sporadic.

My thoughts: I wonder if it is the fuel pump. The gas gauge has been wholly unreliable for more than a year, so I am now thinking that is the root problem. Would a faulty fuel pump cause the no crank, no spark?

Either way, I need to burn off a metric crap-ton of fuel before dropping the tank!

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Carbuff2

· #2 · 7 d ago

Any possibility you have a bad crank sensor? If the ECU does not receive a signal, it will shut down ignition and fuel...

That seems more likely to me given the sudden-ness of the issue.

Reactions: 2

atoman

· #3 · 7 d ago

Simpleton7016 said:
decided first to test all the relays and fuses on more time. Everything checked out except there was a very light ‘spark’ when I was plugging in the fuel pump fuse. I went in the cabin and the van fired right up

Since probing at IPM changed your symptoms, it would be wise to check the box, connectors & wires underneath for corrosion...

Reactions: 5

itsallgood

· #4 · 7 d ago

You should be able to hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key to the start position. If you hear the fuel pump prime. Also, you can check for fuel pressure at the fuel line test port.

Valhallalla

· #5 · 7 d ago

Simpleton7016 said:
Would a faulty fuel pump cause the no crank, no spark?

No, definitely not. A defective fuel pump will not cause a No Crank or No Spark condition.

I would do as atoman suggests and double check your connections related to the IPM.

atoman said:
Since probing at IPM changed your symptoms, it would be wise to check the box, connectors & wires underneath for corrosion...

Reactions: 1

Turbo84

· #6 · 7 d ago

If in park you jump plus 12 to small terminal on stater solenoid and see if it cranks you will have learned alot

Brisk crank means starter battery and battery cables are good and problem with circuit that controls starter (wires, key switch, range selector ect )

No crank with 12 volts jumped to small terminal means starter or battery or battery cables have an issue or engine is mechanically locked

Simpleton7016

Discussion Starter · #7 · 6 d ago

Turbo84 said:
If in park you jump plus 12 to small terminal on stater solenoid and see if it cranks you will have learned alot

Brisk crank means starter battery and battery cables are good and problem with circuit that controls starter (wires, key switch, range selector ect )

No crank with 12 volts jumped to small terminal means starter or battery or battery cables have an issue or engine is mechanically locked

Carbuff2 said:
Any possibility you have a bad crank sensor? If the ECU does not receive a signal, it will shut down ignition and fuel...

That seems more likely to me given the sudden-ness of the issue.

I see no corrosion under the IPM at all. But the pictured fuses are encased and not accessible.

re: the possibility that it is the crank sensor…wouldn’t that trip a code?

Motor vehicle Electrician Hood Automotive tire Automotive exterior

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atoman

· #8 · 6 d ago

Simpleton7016 said:
I see no corrosion under the IPM at all. But the pictured fuses are encased and not accessible.

re: the possibility that it is the crank sensor…wouldn’t that trip a code?

To see anything, you need to at least disconnect the connectors and look at pins for any green oxidation. The box comes apart and some of those contacts are loose pins inside, others are attachec to pcb. The printed circuit board will only be exposed from the bottom, the top plastic is riveted? or secured somehow to the board... If you try to dig into it, take plenty of pictures for re-assembly aid. You do have to pull all relays and fuses to get it all apart.

CKP sensor failure does not always result in a code, but it's usually not randomly intermittent (it can be temp related but not randomly inop.)

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Simpleton7016

Discussion Starter · #9 · 2 d ago

Ok, I took the IPM apart and scuffed up every fuse and connection. I reassembled and still have the same symptoms. I even did the same with a spare IPM and swapped it out. Same symptoms.

I do have a strong crank jumping the starter solenoid.

I can still get an occasional start by pulling and reinserting the two 25 amp fuses for the fuel pump and/or EATX Batt. But I can not find any pattern. It seems totally random.

I guess my next step will be to pull all of the transmission sensors to clean and inspect. Will report back, but I am open to other suggestions. Thanks for the responses so far.

itsallgood

· #10 · 2 d ago

Have you tested the battery voltage? Also, test the voltage for each fuse and regulator for the starter and fuel pump.

Mopar John

· #11 · 2 d ago

Simpleton7016 said:
So my 2001 T&C (3.3 l) was running spectacularly until two months ago it would start after my sons soccer game. (Btw, I had just filled the gas tank less than 5 miles before). I had it towed home and posed some questions to the group under the thread “PCM Swap - VIN decoding”. I am just now getting around to troubleshooting the van.

The symptoms: I had a no crank, no spark situation. There was a single click at the starter relay. When I jumped pins 87 and 30, it spun just fine, but no spark. I read every forum post I could find and was pretty sure it had to be the TransmissionRange Sensor (TRS). I was finally going to perform the necessary surgery this weekend, but decided first to test all the relays and fuses on more time. Everything checked out except there was a very light ‘spark’ when I was plugging in the fuel pump fuse. I went in the cabin and the van fired right up. I drove it a few miles and everything was great. I turned it off and tried to start it again and same issue. I pulled the two circled fuses, wiggled around the female ends, plugged the fuses back in and voila, she started again. After nearly a dozen driving cycles, the symptoms are somewhat sporadic.

My thoughts: I wonder if it is the fuel pump. The gas gauge has been wholly unreliable for more than a year, so I am now thinking that is the root problem. Would a faulty fuel pump cause the no crank, no spark?

Either way, I need to burn off a metric crap-ton of fuel before dropping the tank!

I would take a deep look under the fuse box. I've heard some of the contacts of various relays and fuses get corrosion. That causes intermittent contact function. Check it.

Turbo84

· #12 · 22 h ago

Fuel pump cannot prevent cranking so if wont crank it ain't fuel pump causing no crank

Mopar John

· #13 · 9 h ago

Simpleton7016 said:
I see no corrosion under the IPM at all. But the pictured fuses are encased and not accessible.

re: the possibility that it is the crank sensor…wouldn’t that trip a code? View attachment 72342

Unfortunate to say, I believe that black cover needs to come off, so you can visually see or inspect the contents for corrosion. I would normally take photos of every step I take when removing connections for safe reassembly.

Simpleton7016

Discussion Starter · #14 · 7 h ago

Mopar John said:
Unfortunate to say, I believe that black cover needs to come off, so you can visually see or inspect the contents for corrosion. I would normally take photos of every step I take when removing connections for safe reassembly.

Thank you. I did completely disassemble and clean everything. No sign of corrosion and I even tried to do the same with a spare IPM. Every connector (make and female) was scuffed and cleaned. Once installed, I had the same symptoms with both IPM’s.

I do have the day to myself (no kids) and am troubleshooting it. I did, in fact, eventually burn out the fuse for the fuel pump, so I think that is a clue at least. It led me to pull off the cowel and plenum to check the injector harness, but I replaced it just a few years ago and used a metric crap ton of asbestos and heat resistant tape to protect it from the heat. That is where I am at right now….still inspecting that harness. But everything looks good in the typical problem areas so far.

Also, I did put a multimeter on all the fuses and everything checked out (once I replaced the burned out fuse for the fuel pump).

I will report back. Still open to suggestions about the blown fuse. I must have pulled and replaced it four dozen times trying to find some pattern for when it would start and when it wouldn’t. I never identifies a pattern.

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Road Ripper

· #15 · 5 h ago

Fuses burn out because of excess current draw on the circuit. If the wiring for the fuel pump isn't grounding anywhere or shorting to another circuit, then the pump is getting too old and drawing too much current and popping the fuse. The fuel pump is an electric motor, and electric motors draw the most current when they first start up (and is the reason for a capacitor on larger motors - that "hump" you see on a/c motors).

My fuel pump went out on my 2000 T&C at 219,000 miles, while driving it. I could get it to keep running if I kicked the fuel tank when idling. I took the old pump out after replacing it, and the spade connectors for the motor had arcing burns on them. That indicated either a bad connection, or high current draw through the limited contact points of the spade. Maybe just cleaning those areas and plugging it back in would make it work again, but for how long? My sister's 97 T&C fuel pump went out at 236,000 miles so it was about due to be replaced anyway.

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