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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As the title suggest my town and country 3.8 v6 has all the injectors stuck closed. The injectors are not clogged. I have a crank, no start issue. I had a code for the pcm had it programmed and replaced it. I replaced the fuel pump, starter, fuel filter, spark plugs, and cleaned the tank. I am at a loss. I have power through the harness, if I "rig" the injectors up to a battery they open and close. Fuel is reaching the rail and will come out of the rail but if the injectors are put in the rail then no fuel comes out of the injectors. They will stay closed. I have no idea what to do and I am so tired of spending every day off working on it and throwing parts at it that are not fixing my issue. I need this van to run and it is at a stalemate in my driveway. It last ran a couple weeks ago when I broke down and could not get it to turn over even with spraying ether in the carb it would turn over for a brief moment then instantly die. Had it towed. That is when I replaced the fuel pump (again) and computer thinking I got a bad pump and maybe the computer needed changed because I had the code for a while for internal memory clock null I do believe. Open to suggestions. Also it has a brand new battery and altenator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
you say you have power through the harness, but check the condition of the injector wiring harness.
The condition isn't good but it isn't awful, I will be replacing it because it needs replaced as you can visually see one exposed line but its very slight. It's not all melted and exposed like some pictures I have seen of the common harness issues.
 

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No injector pulse; this sounds like another thread I read once about a Dodge trike in this section not long ago. He resolved his issue, although I don't remember exactly how.
 

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All the fuel injectors get power and then the ECM grounds the individual injectors to make em spritz.
As Baron had said above, the 2002 3.8 (same as mine) had a problem where the fuel injector wire harness was routed in a way that the exhaust manifold cross over pipe would cook the wiring and after time the harness may short circuit or cross communicate with the other injectors or that sensor thingy that is also in the harness.

If melted harness were not detected and repaired, continued operation may eventually kill one or more injector drivers in the engine computer.

It sounds like you already know about that.

OK, AutoZone is your friend, they have specialty tool kits for to borrow for up to 90 days. free.
Fuel pressure gauge kit (fuel pressure and plumbing parts to make a connection and still be able to run vehicle)
NOID lights (visible LED lights to show when a fuel injector receives what it needs to open)

I would put your old computer back in. (you said you changed it and it didn't change or fix why you changed it, so...)
Check each injector plug to make sure it has (5 volts dc?) power.
 

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As the title suggest my town and country 3.8 v6 has all the injectors stuck closed. The injectors are not clogged. I have a crank, no start issue. I had a code for the pcm had it programmed and replaced it. I replaced the fuel pump, starter, fuel filter, spark plugs, and cleaned the tank. I am at a loss. I have power through the harness, if I "rig" the injectors up to a battery they open and close. Fuel is reaching the rail and will come out of the rail but if the injectors are put in the rail then no fuel comes out of the injectors. They will stay closed. I have no idea what to do and I am so tired of spending every day off working on it and throwing parts at it that are not fixing my issue. I need this van to run and it is at a stalemate in my driveway.
If you "RIG" the injectors to test them, be careful as I think they are only 5 volts and even then, they don't hold up well to being constantly held open especially if there is no fuel flowing to cool them. I have used a 9 volt smoke detector battery in the past but I only *tap *tap *tap it to test and or clean them.


It last ran a couple weeks ago when I broke down...
Describe the event.
Were you driving or parked?
Were you on a highway or in neighborhood (stop and go)?
Did anything start acting up prior to you needing a tow or was it all of a sudden?

...
and could not get it to turn over even with spraying ether in the carb it would turn over for a brief moment then instantly die. Had it towed.
Here, you proved it is (was, at that point) a fuel delivery fault. Ignition works and compression is able to support combustion. Good job.


That is when I replaced the fuel pump (again) and computer thinking I got a bad pump and maybe the computer needed changed because I had the code for a while for internal memory clock null I do believe.
I am not familiar with that code but I doubt it was necessary to change the computer. Perhaps someone else knows that code.

As you said above, firing the "Parts Cannon" gets expensive quickly and it is "Hit OR Miss"
... frustrating
...time consuming

I bet you read several threads researching and I am confident you saw a few that were similar to your vehicle symptoms. How about the ones that were real similar and then... nothing.
The guy got his car running and never came back and told what it was that fixed it.


Open to suggestions. Also it has a brand new battery and altenator.
Please return when you get your van running and please tell us how you fixed your mini...
BTW, welcome to the forum!
 

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Shot in the dark here.
I have a 99 that has a failing BCM. I have learned that the BCM and PCM talk to each other and they share security settings. If a PCM or a BCM with security enabled is placed in a van and the other computer does not have security enabled, security will be switched on in both computers and the van will not start. This is an irreversible condition.
So, if your van did not have factory security enabled and you put in a PCM with security enabled, it will turn on security for the entire van. If you do not have the corresponding security enabled remote, you have a dead van. Only fix is to install another PCM and BCM from a non security enabled vehicle.

This applies to the third generation of van, does it apply to the forth gen? I do not know.
Did this van have factory security when you got it? If not, this could be your problem.
 

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Shot in the dark here.
I have a 99 that has a failing BCM. I have learned that the BCM and PCM talk to each other and they share security settings. If a PCM or a BCM with security enabled is placed in a van and the other computer does not have security enabled, security will be switched on in both computers and the van will not start. This is an irreversible condition.
So, if your van did not have factory security enabled and you put in a PCM with security enabled, it will turn on security for the entire van. If you do not have the corresponding security enabled remote, you have a dead van. Only fix is to install another PCM and BCM from a non security enabled vehicle.

This applies to the third generation of van, does it apply to the forth gen? I do not know.
Did this van have factory security when you got it? If not, this could be your problem.
Hmm, OP said that it was a problem before swapping ECM, so maybe (hopefully) not this issue.

Interesting tid bit of information there, Drunken Elvis
Now I am always going to be paranoid in swapping parts because they may lock up my minivan...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
If you "RIG" the injectors to test them, be careful as I think they are only 5 volts and even then, they don't hold up well to being constantly held open especially if there is no fuel flowing to cool them. I have used a 9 volt smoke detector battery in the past but I only *tap *tap *tap it to test and or clean them.




Describe the event.
Were you driving or parked?
Were you on a highway or in neighborhood (stop and go)?
Did anything start acting up prior to you needing a tow or was it all of a sudden?


Here, you proved it is (was, at that point) a fuel delivery fault. Ignition works and compression is able to support combustion. Good job.


I am not familiar with that code but I doubt it was necessary to change the computer. Perhaps someone else knows that code.

As you said above, firing the "Parts Cannon" gets expensive quickly and it is "Hit OR Miss"
... frustrating
...time consuming

I bet you read several threads researching and I am confident you saw a few that were similar to your vehicle symptoms. How about the ones that were real similar and then... nothing.
The guy got his car running and never came back and told what it was that fixed it.



Please return when you get your van running and please tell us how you fixed your mini...
BTW, welcome to the forum!
When the van broke down i had drove around 9 miles to pick my fiancé up from work, i was on the highway and then a neighborhood setting. when pulling out of the companies lot on to the road it stalled(stop and go maybe?) it did stutter at the 4 way light prior to picking her up. I then proceeded to push it into a nearby parking lot where i attempted to a series of things to get it started. I tried to jump it, nothing happened. I tried to put more gas in it, still didn't start, i tried to spray ether where it briefly turned over then you could tell it was not receiving fuel and died immediately.

Before this breakdown i had replaced the fuel pump, filter, starter, battery, and alternator. all replaced within around 2 months.

the codes I was receiving before the breakdown before i replaced the ECU was P0601(Internal control module memory check sum error DTC severity 3 of 3 stop and repair vehicle immediately.), P0740(Torque converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit.),P0700 (Transmission Control System(mil Request).) Which by the way the van did not have the security setting by factory so the one i ordered was preprogrammed to match to the vin make model and also i made sure to not get security on so that should not be an issue as far as the van being dead because of security.
I have not been able to test for codes since replacing ECU but those were the only codes i had received before the breakdown.

i apologize for being a rookie as i did rent a fuel pressure gauge kit for a couple days from orielys and COULD NOT figure out how to use it on this van. Granted I have never used one before and looked at several videos i just could not get them to apply to this van. so that's why i went through cycling the key and checking lines to see where fuel was making it when i finally realized the injectors were forced closed. but i think there is a required amount of pressure needed for the injectors to "proc". i did use a noid light to verify the injector harness was all receiving power.
theres is a bit more information also the van has 155,000 miles.
 

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Yeah, be sure of what you're getting when dealing with used computers/modules. If the ECM (in this case, there is no PCM as that was 2004-on) was brand new from a rebuilder, it will have been wiped and the security wouldn't have been enabled until it was plugged in. The SENTRY module under the steering column/ignition is what switches on security if it's plugged in with the battery hooked up. The BCM can learn/switch on security, but it cannot be unlearned. You CAN put any used security enabled computer/sentry module (always keep those paired up) in a van with a BCM with security enabled, and it will run. The BCM does not have to match the code inside the ECM/sentry. When the BCM DOES matter is when you're trying to DELETE the security system.

That SENTRY module under the steering column is the most important thing. You can't just swap it out, or have a different computer with it. It won't work. It imprints it's code onto anything hooked to the system when the battery is hooked up, so you'd better have the key that goes with it (the chipped key) or you render your van inoperable.
 
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Injectors don't need any pressure to open/close. The injectors are not getting the signal to cycle from the computer. Your fuel system is fine. You tested ignition, and that's fine. It's a control/computer or wiring problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I suppose i could swap the ECM back to the old one if we believe that could be the issue. but i believe they were programmed and matched up perfectly. I did however notice when replacing the old computer oil had somehow leaked into the old one where the connector connects to the the computer. I would be able to post pictures if you believe that would be beneficial. ask and i shall give. I'm just unsure where to continue from here other then Definity replacing harness, and possibly my injectors. that's just a good chunk of change. and I'm trying to narrow it down.
 

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I've never done such a thing, but I would think that back probing the correct pins on the ECU with the right electric tester should show if the ECU is trying to cycle one of the injectors. Perhaps someone here has knowledge of this type of testing.
Can an expensive OBD scanner monitor the cycling of injectors?
 

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If you took the time to remove, peel the covers and inspect the injector harness, deemed it good enough, and put it all back together, I'd say that was good enough. You can spend dollars replacing the harness after it is running.
*BTW, we've had members re-insulate melted injector harness with electrical tape. Or cut bad wire out and splice in new wires... I think I've seen harness at walmart.com for as little as $76 but that was years ago.

The injectors, if you've tested (rigged) and determined that they are clicking, lets presume that they are opening.
If/when it is time for injectors, I'd rather advise you to have the Siemans factory injectors sent out for cleaning/testing rather than have you buy the green injectors for about 1/2 of the price. CLean/calibrate is $18 ea at Mr Injector. US ~~>mrinjector.us (I often wonder how much business he looses by not having (dot COM)

I'd try the old computer... many times when working on aircraft radios, we often fix the problem by simply unplugging and then re-plugging every connector. That is what the first step almost always is unless you obviously see a seagull stuffed up inside a radio or evidence that the magic smoke has escaped.
Inspect those wire harness' for any anomalies and connect them like you intend to never remove them again.

Dan (husband of Stephanie) made a good point about the SKIM. Do you know of any event that happened in the vicinity of the steering column or ignition cylinder? Had you been installing any radio equipment recently or removed the entire dash package to repair the air conditioner evaporator?

Something happened, obviously.
Do you have a second key to try?
 

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i apologize for being a rookie as i did rent a fuel pressure gauge kit for a couple days from orielys and COULD NOT figure out how to use it on this van. Granted I have never used one before and looked at several videos i just could not get them to apply to this van. so that's why i went through cycling the key and checking lines to see where fuel was making it when i finally realized the injectors were forced closed. but i think there is a required amount of pressure needed for the injectors to "proc". i did use a noid light to verify the injector harness was all receiving power.
theres is a bit more information also the van has 155,000 miles.
No worries about being a rookie, I applaud you for learning this and trying to fix your own.

I am posting this because what you said above infers that you used the NOID light and proved that the harness is getting power. Yes and No, perhaps.

As I said above, all the injector (all all six) are connected to one 5v power source and each individual injector is grounded by the computer (ECU) You should have checked each injector plug with the NOID light and because your van is not running, you'll need someone to turn the key and a second person to watch the light (six times) and try to do it in the dark or under a blanket because you'll want to know if there is the slightest dim glow happening. You may not see it in the high noon sun light.
AND the engine may not run on merely two or three injectors. The key to not throwing hard earned dollars at this is to be thorough in your testing and to not make any assumptions.





At 3:50 he mistakenly says "That injector is working perfectly..."
NOT
The injector circuit is working, not necessarily that injector.

We are here for you buddy. Lets get it back running without spending too much more money.
 

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I've never done such a thing, but I would think that back probing the correct pins on the ECU with the right electric tester should show if the ECU is trying to cycle one of the injectors. Perhaps someone here has knowledge of this type of testing.
Can an expensive OBD scanner monitor the cycling of injectors?
I think a good scanner may show the ECU telling the injector to pulse but you are right, back probing will confirm that the circuit is actually performing as designed.

I do hesitate to recommend back probing as it could maybe kill an injector driver and we are not there yet. It can be done but it has to be done right.

Good call
 

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Injectors don't need any pressure to open/close. The injectors are not getting the signal to cycle from the computer. Your fuel system is fine. You tested ignition, and that's fine. It's a control/computer or wiring problem.
Hey Dan,

Do we have like a collision relay or something that shuts off the fuel injectors or something?

How about the security key transducer SKIM, how does that disable the theft of the van?
 

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i did rent a fuel pressure gauge kit for a couple days from orielys and COULD NOT figure out how to use it on this van. Granted I have never used one before and looked at several videos i just could not get them to apply to this van.
Facing the open hood, I connected the fuel pressure gauge on the left hand side between the engine and passenger side of the engine bay. There is a hose the comes from the vehicle frame and goes across that gap to the fuel injector rail.

Remove the hose from the rail and then using the bits and hosses in the kit you Tee a piece of hose with a clamp onto the pipe of the fuel rail and on the other side they provided a piece of pipe that the fuel hose will connect to. The third leg of the TEE goes to the gauge.
 

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Just a quick note, instead of using a 9v battery for testing, the USB port supplies 5v. I have used and old USB cable to power other devices, maybe it could work here as well.
 

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The injectors get full fused battery power through the auto-shutdown relay. No need for 5 or 9 volts. I’m not sure 5v would even open the injector. You’re not going to damage them if you don’t leave them connected for more than a few seconds, at a minimum.

The 5 volt supply from the PCM is used for sensors — I doubt if any outputs use it.
 
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