The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello everyone,

I'm new to the website and still trying to figure out how to add info to my profile so please forgive me. I am working on my wife's van and have come to a very confusing halt. I'M GOING NUTS!

Vehicle info:

2005 Town and Country Limited 203,000 miles from up north. last eight of vin are 5R238037.

Part replaced:

Machine rotors
New struts
new end links
new sway bar bushings
new front caliper right
New front left caliper X2 (replace twice in troubleshooting to eliminate the possibility of a faulty part)
New ABS module
New Brake fluid
new front rubber Brake lines
new pads front
new master cylinder X2 (replace twice in troubleshooting to eliminate the possibility of a faulty part)
New Front Right ABS sensor


History of problem:

The van needed new struts/shocks and had a bad rotor in the front (warped). I replaced the pads, machined the rotors, replace the struts, and end links. I used a C-clamp to retract the calipers on the front. I did not brake the brake system open. Now the pedal is spongy and goes to about 1/2" from the floor. There was NO issue with the brake system prior to the work being performed minus the wobble.

Next i replaced the parts listed above....

I learned that you needed a computer to bleed the brakes, so I took it to the Dodge dealer to have them bleed it with the computer. He did it three times while the ABS pump was activated. NO change...

The part the is driving me crazy is the problem existed only after I pushed in the front calipers for the new brake pads. All the new part have had no effect of fixing it, and even the dealer's tech is stumped. The tech said to try to replace the master cylinder again and replace the brake booster. I haven't replaced the booster because I don't see how the effects the system other than if it goes out it would be difficult to push. Base brakes are slightly spongy and when the car is started the pedal hits the floor. The tech and I both could not find any leaks.

I clamped off the front brake lines, and the rear works fine. I loosened the front left clamp. The pedal got softer and the left front tire would not lock up but would try to (on gravel). I reclamped the front left brake line and loosened the front right. The brakes acted normal, and the right front wheel would try to lock up, but the ABS would kick in.

My guess is that the ABS control Module went bad so I pulled the fuses (a 20 and a 40 I think) to deactivate the ABS control module in hopes of returning the ABS module (aluminum block with the valves in it) valves to their de-energized state. There was no change in brake performance.

I haven't replaced the booster, rear calipers or the ABS control module. I'm about $1,500 into this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I replaced the ABS module but not the ABS control Module (the computer brain part that attaches to the ABS module) and took it to the dealer for proper bleeding. The dealer tech said he was able to activate the ABS pump while he was bleeding it. Just for giggles I drive it about 65mph shut the engine off and pumped the brakes to release any vacuum the slammed the pedal as hard as I could and it stopped faster then when engine running. I'm going to replace the ABS control module next week. its the only thing I and think of left to do about another $235 part.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
Before you start replacing ABS parts, disconnect the ABS by pulling a fuse, or by pulling a wheel sensor connector. Remember, the brakes are designed to function normally, without the ABS.

Most cars bleed down when the engine is running, but if the brakes harden when pumped, you still probably have air in the system. Try another vehicle to compare.

Maybe you can try clamping off the flex hoses to each wheel, one-by-one, to troubleshoot.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Just saw the message. I replaced the ABS Control Module and no change I called the dealer tech back and he insists its the booster so I bought one of those and I'm in the process of putting it on. I tried clamping the lines off. I believe its air too but the tech said he did it three times with the computer so I guess we'll see if he's right in the next few hours. Thank you. I'll post back the results
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Brake booster was a no go. I'm back at the dealer and turned it over to them to work their magic. I have accepted defeat. I am shamed by a minivan.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
Brake booster was a no go. I'm back at the dealer and turned it over to them to work their magic. I have accepted defeat. I am shamed by a minivan.
Sounds like it has become an expensive and annoying repair. Hopefully they figure it out soon and they don't charge you an arm and a leg.
 

·
Latent car nut
Joined
·
9,055 Posts
Sounds like it has become an expensive and annoying repair. Hopefully they figure it out soon and they don't charge you an arm and a leg.
Keep us posted on how you make out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The dealer is still working on it, two different techs work on it now. Bled the brakes several times now and are at a loss. They are buying the brake bleeding machine the pumps from the calipers to the master cylinder not. it will arrive Monday. I was surprised they didn't have one. To Be Continued........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts
This part of your post stuck out to me:

I clamped off the front brake lines, and the rear works fine. I loosened the front left clamp. The pedal got softer and the left front tire would not lock up but would try to (on gravel). I reclamped the front left brake line and loosened the front right. The brakes acted normal, and the right front wheel would try to lock up, but the ABS would kick in.
It seems to me that your problem is somewhere after the point where you clamp off the left front brake. I assume you are clamping off the rubber brake hoses to the front caliper (nowhere else to do it really but I gotta ask). That would imply there is something with the L/F caliper or pads.

This is a long shot but I witnessed this many years ago. Back then we would routinely rebulid the calipers during front pad replacement so brake bleeding was always called for. Another tech had done a brake job and couldn't get a decent pedal. After a master cylinder and proportioning valve failed to correct it, I happened to walk by while they had the front wheels off and spotted the problem. One of the front pads was not sitting properly in the slot of the caliper bracket. It was cocked and the tip of the pad was bearing against the side of the bracket and most of the pad was not contacting the rotor. When brake pedal pressure was applied instead of contacting the rotor and stopping, the pad would just bend and flex in mid-air. A spongy pedal resulted. It seemed like a hydraulic problem but it was actually mechanical binding.

Again I say it may be a long shot. I don't even know if one could postion the pads of an '05 RS in such a way, I haven't tried. Also, since you have been back to that wheel several times, you likely would have spotted something like that by now. The pads may not be hung up the way I described but perhaps are binding in some other way. I dunno. I still think you need to concentrate on the L/F area of the brakes.
 

·
fix it if you can
Joined
·
5,162 Posts
The only unlikely possibility that I could think of is that the LF calliper is incorrect - part in the box from other side or other similar vehicle..
This should've been easy to spot though - the bleeder screw should be on the very top of the calliper cylinder (if it's on the bottom, the air that's trapped never has a chance to bleed/escape)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,067 Posts
I clamped off the front brake lines, and the rear works fine. I loosened the front left clamp. The pedal got softer and the left front tire would not lock up but would try to (on gravel). I reclamped the front left brake line and loosened the front right. The brakes acted normal, and the right front wheel would try to lock up, but the ABS would kick in.
What did you use to clamp off the front brake lines? Is that part ok once you were finished? Sounds like those lines could be damaged at those areas. I would also re-check that.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
511 Posts
The first things I would have done is to replace/rebuild the calipers and install new hoses...and going back I see that you did that. Wow, what a situation. I don't think the booster would produce a spongy pedal...maybe a more difficult one...but not spongy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,855 Posts
If the flex lines were damaged by clamping, there would be a problem with the lines holding brake pressure after the pedal was released.

As it was my suggestion to clamp the lines to troubleshoot the problem, if the flex lines are still flexible and the clamping wasn't overdone, the lines should be fine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I know it's been awhile, but the van has been at the dealership for 2 months now and they still have no idea. They bought the reverse brake bleeding machine ( from caliper to the master cylinder), called Chrysler tech, replaced the ABS Module again, and scratched their heads. The service guy even tried to give it back to me with a $600 bill and no results!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
What did you use to clamp off the front brake lines? Is that part ok once you were finished? Sounds like those lines could be damaged at those areas. I would also re-check that.
I used vise grips but put a hard plastic shield over the lines. the issue existed with the old line as well. All I did initially was replace the pads and machine the rotors. the issue arose somehow from that and has persisted throughout my parts changing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I bought A different van. The dealership was getting anywhere so I'm pulling the plug. I overseas right now and can't afford to just let them keep guessing. The new van is identical, so the old one is now a $6,000 parts van. I will try to fix it based on the recommendations of the group, but have little hope for it. Thank you gentlemen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
It is annoying -- here is my recommendation for solving the issue. Get a set of brake line plugs. Replace all the lines but the input (from MC) lines at ABS modules with plugs. Pedal should feel very firm -- almost no give. Then I would connect one line at a time and bleed it. Eventually you'll find which line gives you trouble...

My money is that one of the rear caliper pistons has a hairline crack. That will cause the problem...

But do it by process of elimination....
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top