2005 Town&Country 3.3L ABS and Brake lights on

3275 Views 43 Replies 8 Participants Last post by FabricGATOR, 6 mo ago

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · Apr 21, 2022

Hello again, previously I had written about an ABS/brake problem I had following a transmission replace. (I'm hoping someone now might have some idea of what is happening). Anyhow, the transmission tech ran an all systems scan on my van, and the printout showed fault codes having to do with the abs system.

They are 10- left front sensor circuit failure, 11- left front speed sensor signal failure, 20- Pump circuit failure.

The brakes would work normally, but the abs light would sometimes come on and go off even before the tranny job. However, after the transmission replace, the abs light stayed on and about 2 months later, I began to experience irregular braking back in March, the pedal would rattle and sometimes drop down just before dead bottom.

Anyway I replaced the left front wheel sensor and the braking went back to normal. However, the abs light stayed on. Then about 2 weeks ago in April, the red brake light has come on and does not go out. I've checked fuses but found nothing blown.

I've yet to check the brake pedal switch and the parking brake switch, but I'm reluctant to believe either of these two switches can go bad, just like that. I had also tried disconnecting the battery, when I replaced the abs sensor, to see if light would go out, but it did not. Now, I considering, if a code meter, like an innova 600p or Foxcon needed to turn off these two lights. I've drawn a blank. Any help is appreciated.

21 - 40 of 44 Posts

Rusty Oldford

· #21 · Apr 27, 2022

Mopar Joe, Yours sounds even more sicker than mine.

I only have two wonky Front ABS Sensor codes and the red brake warning on. Brakes feel normal otherwise. When I've time I intend to carefully flip over the "fuse and relay" box to inspect its underside for corroded wires. At the same time I'll look at various grounds. Late last year the passenger side front turn signal bulb was acting up and I found there was a bad ground on the bulb. Rather than troubleshoot in the cold I ran a new round wire from the bulb holder to a clean spot in the engine compartment. Bad grounds and wiring issues have haunted this van for years, otherwise she's great!
Good luck MJ, let us know if you find something simple...😁

FabricGATOR

· #22 · Apr 27, 2022

Mopar John said:
Well Rusty, and whoever is following th...

It came with all wheel sensors signal N/A, and in addition, ECU internal failure, hydraulic pump circuit failure, valve power feed failure!

To start, I'd clear all the codes and then go for a drive to see what comes back. [hard fault]
Check for an ABS fuse and check that it is not blown.

Reactions: 1

dropper9

· #23 · Apr 27, 2022

Mopar John said:
Hello again, previously I had written about an ABS/brake problem I had following a transmission replace. (I'm hoping someone now might have some idea of what is happening). Anyhow, the transmission tech ran an all systems scan on my van, and the printout showed fault codes having to do with the abs system.

They are 10- left front sensor circuit failure, 11- left front speed sensor signal failure, 20- Pump circuit failure.

The brakes would work normally, but the abs light would sometimes come on and go off even before the tranny job. However, after the transmission replace, the abs light stayed on and about 2 months later, I began to experience irregular braking back in March, the pedal would rattle and sometimes drop down just before dead bottom.

Anyway I replaced the left front wheel sensor and the braking went back to normal. However, the abs light stayed on. Then about 2 weeks ago in April, the red brake light has come on and does not go out. I've checked fuses but found nothing blown.

I've yet to check the brake pedal switch and the parking brake switch, but I'm reluctant to believe either of these two switches can go bad, just like that. I had also tried disconnecting the battery, when I replaced the abs sensor, to see if light would go out, but it did not. Now, I considering, if a code meter, like an innova 600p or Foxcon needed to turn off these two lights. I've drawn a blank. Any help is appreciated.

For anyone with ABS light and/or Airbag light problems, call Module Master at (888) 892-0764. They rebuilt my modules cheap and fixed the ABS and Airbag problems for my '97 T&C.

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #24 · Apr 29, 2022

FabricGATOR said:
To start, I'd clear all the codes and then go for a drive to see what comes back. [hard fault]
Check for an ABS fuse and check that it is not blown.

Well Gator, I think I did it. I figured, the abs trouble codes must still be in computers memory, so I used the scanner to erase all codes, it indicated all codes erased. I started engine, and sure enough, the light went off. Of course, if something truly is bad with the abs system, I'm sure that light will come back on. Now, I only had the Brake light on. So I went under and tried pulling the connector off, and the whole thingy (connector with copper contact) came off..lol. However brake light went out..lol. So now I have the chore of fixing what I broke, unless I can fit it back in place, it's not really Broken, its just out of the white housing. I'll see.. Wish I could post photos..

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #25 · Apr 29, 2022

Rusty Oldford said:
I have the same problem with my 2005 GC and cannot find the reason why.
All electrical connections test normal.
Van brakes fine but no ABS.
Perhaps our CABs are misfunctioning?
See post Red Brake and Amber ABS Warning Lights.

Rusty Oldford in Canada.

Well Rusty, things haven't panned out yet for me. I thought had managed to turn off the abs and brake lights, using the code scanner tool and disconnecting the parking brake wire connector, but "No Cigar". A while later I went out to pickup wife, and inside 5secs both lights came on. My next move is to re-scan even though I am pretty sure the code of abs pump failure will pop up, I am prepared to angle my next repair be, replacing the abs pump..

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #26 · Apr 29, 2022

Mopar John said:
Well Gator, I think I did it. I figured, the abs trouble codes must still be in computers memory, so I used the scanner to erase all codes, it indicated all codes erased. I started engine, and sure enough, the light went off. Of course, if something truly is bad with the abs system, I'm sure that light will come back on. Now, I only had the Brake light on. So I went under and tried pulling the connector off, and the whole thingy (connector with copper contact) came off..lol. However brake light went out..lol. So now I have the chore of fixing what I broke, unless I can fit it back in place, it's not really Broken, its just out of the white housing. I'll see.. Wish I could post photos..

Long story short, both ABS and brake lights are back on! My next move or repair, will be in couple of weeks, when temps reach at least 70°.. it will be to replace ABS pump..

Rusty Oldford

· #27 · Apr 30, 2022

Hi Mopar John, I do not have the ABS Pump codes, just codes for the 2 ABS Front Sensors. Perhaps my reader does not "see" pump codes. It's definitely not my parking brake or low brake fluid sensor with my van. No grounds are being applied on either of these circuits. I'm in no rush to fix her because we do not have inspections here and I've brought the T and C out of winter storage. Good luck with the pump. MJ.. Please keep us posted. Rusty

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #28 · Apr 30, 2022

Rusty Oldford said:
Hi Mopar John, I do not have the ABS Pump codes, just codes for the 2 ABS Front Sensors. Perhaps my reader does not "see" pump codes. It's definitely not my parking brake or low brake fluid sensor with my van. No grounds are being applied on either of these circuits. I'm in no rush to fix her because we do not have inspections here and I've brought the T and C out of winter storage. Good luck with the pump. MJ.. Please keep us posted. Rusty

Well Rusty, lucky you for No Inspections in your neck of the woods. As I said, I did re-scan the abs system, and sure enough, all same codes registered. So there's no choice now, I have to replace that pump. Weird thing is, my brakes are working fine.

But having the brake light go out, after I disconnected the parking brake wire connector, and then come back on along with abs light tends to tell me they work in conjunction, and the abs problem needs to be corrected and then the brake light would go out.

Another thing I will attempt is, in the next few days we expect some rain. I will test a theory with the abs function. I will find an empty area, where I can pickup speed, and slam the brakes, to see if the abs actuate its pulsating function. If it does pulsate, then the darn thing is working, correct? However if it doesn't, then abs pump is truly bad.

GS21

· #29 · May 1, 2022

Mopar John said:
I will find an empty area, where I can pickup speed, and slam the brakes, to see if the abs actuate its pulsating function. If it does pulsate, then the darn thing is working, correct? However if it doesn't, then abs pump is truly bad.

If the TRAC OFF message is on on your instrument cluster it won’t pulsate the brakes. I believe trac off will always show up when the ABS light is on. I still have a feeling it’s more an electrical issue than an internal pump issue but I’m not very experienced working with cars yet

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #30 · May 2, 2022

GS21 said:
If the TRAC OFF message is on on your instrument cluster it won’t pulsate the brakes. I believe trac off will always show up when the ABS light is on. I still have a feeling it’s more an electrical issue than an internal pump issue but I’m not very experienced working with cars yet

This van doesn't have abs with track.

atoman

· #31 · May 3, 2022

Mopar John said:
However if it doesn't, then abs pump is truly bad.

Yes, if you verified the pump / module is getting good power supply and ground (without which it won't operate even if the pump is good)

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #32 · May 3, 2022

atoman said:
Yes, if you verified the pump / module is getting good power supply and ground (without which it won't operate even if the pump is good)

That's scary Atoman.. I'm going to have to now check All the fuses again.. bcuz I just don't get it.

atoman

· #33 · May 13, 2022

Mopar John said:
That's scary Atoman.. I'm going to have to now check All the fuses again.. bcuz I just don't get it.

ABS modulator pump draws fairly high current (on order of 20+ Amps) if any of the wiring, connectors or ground points have poor contact the high circuit resistance will limit current available to the pump and it won't run or will run but won't build enough pressure... (or will "brown out" CAB electronic controls due to dropping voltage)

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #34 · May 13, 2022

atoman said:
ABS modulator pump draws fairly high current (on order of 20+ Amps) if any of the wiring, connectors or ground points have poor contact the high circuit resistance will limit current available to the pump and it won't run or will run but won't build enough pressure... (or will "brown out" CAB electronic controls due to dropping voltage)

I checked as far as I can, I am now searching for a pump, so I can replace it. The brake light comes on and off. But I imagine all that nonsense will stop once pump is replaced.

Rusty Oldford

· #35 · May 13, 2022

MJ. I have not got around to looking at mine yet...I've all summer to do that because we have other cars and the 2005 GC is my winter beater.
Oddly, last week during a heavy rainfall day, the red brake light went out but came back on the following day. This is our 2nd Dodge C Caravan to do this. Three years ago my son's did that when a front brake caliper stuck ...then went out when the caliper was released. It never did it again!
Rusty.

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #36 · May 23, 2022

Rusty Oldford said:
MJ. I have not got around to looking at mine yet...I've all summer to do that because we have other cars and the 2005 GC is my winter beater.
Oddly, last week during a heavy rainfall day, the red brake light went out but came back on the following day. This is our 2nd Dodge C Caravan to do this. Three years ago my son's did that when a front brake caliper stuck ...then went out when the caliper was released. It never did it again!
Rusty.

Hello Rusty,
The steady abs light is still on. The red brake light is intermittent. On Friday I received an abs pump unit I ordered on ebay. Problem is, I have not found Any videos on YouTube for this job, NONE at all. However, I did see one where the guy replaced the electronic module from the mechanical pump.

And since the code did indicate a pump circuit failure, (electronic) I feel I can do the same. I had wished I could replace the both together, but I went under the van and looked hi and lo and could Not find a way to remove the two hold down bolts hidden above and over the cradle, (which cannot be reached unless tranny is lowered), and I'm Not about to go that distance.

If replacing the electronic module does not put everything to work again normally and wipe abs light, I'll stay that way till I buy a newer Van by end of the summer or next year.
Will let you know.

Rusty Oldford

· #37 · May 23, 2022

MJ I had a quick look at the location/replacement of the ABS pump on the Brake Section of the repair manual.
Have you seen this?

Rusty

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #38 · May 23, 2022

Rusty Oldford said:
MJ I had a quick look at the location/replacement of the ABS pump on the Brake Section of the repair manual.
Have you seen this?

Rusty

Wow Rusty, No, I hadn't seen this.. this pdf is quite informative, thank you.

I find it difficult to follow through with how these procedures go, bcuz for one, the mounting bracket shape on this one is different from mine, and mine has only two bolts. So getting to the bolts is a jammer.

The method thru the steering column floor seems possible. I'd have to check that out. The good thing is I have great weather to work, but, my inspection is due next Monday and if I Now disconnect the battery, I erase All the good computer codes necessary for DMV inspection to read, and that will postpone me with a temp sticker. I don't want to go thru that, so I'll wait till inspection is done, good thing Check-engine light is Not on. That would Definitely fail inspection. But in the end, I will first try to replace electronic part of pump.

And if push comes to pull, I'll attempt the pump thru steering floor plate. Thx again.

See less See more

Rusty Oldford

· #39 · May 23, 2022

MJ If I understand correctly, your "new" unit has only 2 bolts securing it to the mounting bracket instead of 3 like the instructions in the pdf?
I think the image shows 2 mounting locations for the bracket to the van, not the "new" unit to the to the bracket?
Perhaps there are various configurations.
Rusty

Reactions: 1

Mopar John

Discussion Starter · #40 · May 24, 2022

Rusty Oldford said:
MJ If I understand correctly, your "new" unit has only 2 bolts securing it to the mounting bracket instead of 3 like the instructions in the pdf?
I think the image shows 2 mounting locations for the bracket to the van, not the "new" unit to the to the bracket?
Perhaps there are various configurations.
Rusty

Rusty, what I was referring to, in removing the pump, was in regards to "removal of the mounting bracket" from the van chassis. It has 2 bolts attaching it to the chassis and after those two bolts are removed the 3 bolts that hold pump to mount are removed After pump with mount is out. But the procedure expands at this point, into first loosening the brake lines while the pump is firm. Removing the 3 bolts that hold pump to mount bracket will be done After brake lines are completely separated, And the wiring harness connector is disconnected.

I wanted to ask:: from what year town and country are these manual pages from or for? I am wondering if the steering column access hole allows access to the 3 bolts that hold the pump, (leaving mount untouched) Or, access to the 2 bolts that hold the mount bracket to chassis?? Can you tell me?

I am going to re-read / review these procedures, to get a good understanding.

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