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Discussion Starter #1
My 06 T&C would not start yesterday.....until I have it part throttle. Then it ran and died immediately after i took my foot off the gas. Restarted it the sam way and after about a minute it acted like something kicked in.....took my foot off the gas and idles and runs like normal. Throws a P0300 code.

Sparkplug wires were change a couple of years ago. Plugs were change 6 months ago. Battery tests ok.

What would I check or change first?

Thanks.
 

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start listening for pump when turning the igntion key prior to starting engine. also check for grounds within the engine back for corrosion.
 

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Welcome to the forum!

I am confident you will find your solution here.
Sounds like you are already off to a good start ( no pun intended_)

Make sure to let us know what you finally find that reliable gets you there and back again.
The suspense is keeping me awake, I love a happy ending :}
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I have to say that I've never been able to hear the fuel pump when I at first turn on the van. I will make a point of listening.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I will get some cleaner and give it a try. Low cost and needs to be done anyway.

I am puzzled why it will absolutely will not start cold until I give it some throttle and hold that position for 30 seconds or so and then it will run unassisted. I do notice a bit of a rough idle after that. I don't feel like it fuel related. Sensor related is more likely in my mind but nothing to base it on but my gut.
 

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I suggest you take the throttle body off the engine in order to do a more thorough cleaning, replace the gasket. You might also ask the board if there are any fitting or vacuum hoses that need attention as I have not done this to my van yet.

Dan
 

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Welcome aboard,
Stepping on the gas pedal opens the throttle plate...
When was the last time the throttle body was cleaned?
I don't really think I am right, but I'll say it anyway just to calm my inner child ( impetuous and as whiny as she can be.. ) Does opening the throttle, in anyway, does that only change the airflow via the butterfly plate or does the TPS sense this and increase fuel flow via the injectors in a pre start situation?
The days of pumping the pedal to get a start on a cold morning went away with the acceleration injection pump and fuel float...
 

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butterfly opens, air flow sensor registers increased air intake, and matches the fuel amount accordingly...

that being said, it occurring when cold (assuming both cold engine and ambient temps), it needs a rich condition to start (like an old school carb choke)....and the computer tries to manage this pretty closely...in the first few engine revolutions it will determine how much fuel needs to be there to keep it running...there is an expected defined amount across the throttle butterfly plate, and a variable amount sent from the IAC....if there is a blockage at either of these to places the overall airflow (and consequentially fuel) will be less then expected as the computer tries to trim for the cold temps and it wont idle....holding the throttle slightly open will obviously override all of this...and while that is happening the computer will be adjusting its targets and figure itself out.

Keep in mind, as posted earlier, a vacuum leak could also cause this whole reaction, as again, the airflow qty would be outside the expected range
 

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gator...the only part of your statement that is off is the "pre-start", as the actual order of events is prime, rich dump on turn-over, spark, fuel tirm.....opening the plate will force a trim other then the "default for temp" trim, and buy the system a few secs to figure it out.

if he actually payed with it over the 30 secs...likes feathering or tapping vs holding I bet he would actually be able to feel/see/whatever it trimming itself for a run condition
 

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Yes, do the TB cleaning right (per Chrysler procedure) - take it off and give it good attention on the bench, make sure to clean the IAC passages and plunger.
No need for a new gasket unless you see a problem with the old one.

It could be as simple as caked up TB (IAC) that 'loosens up' after a few seconds of vibration.
Or as complicated as EGR stuck open.

One has to start somewhere...

The 'trim' will change on open throttle vs closed, but again if it can't get enough air to idle it will just die out (as observed).
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Update

I removed and cleaned the throttle body. It was very dirty. Van now starts without me having to put foot on the gas but it still doesn't want to start....kind of misses and then starts and runs very smooth. Much better than before.
Any ideas about the stutter start as I call it?

I do hear the fuel pump engaging when I first turn the key to on so I don't believe thats an issue.

Ideas for the next possible culprit?
 

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So, progress and observable change, but still not ideal operation....

Did you do the cleaning with it installed on the van or did you follow atoman's advice and get it inside on a workbench with good light and ability to work comfortably?

Did you remove the idle air control solenoid and effectively clean the passages and ports? Inspect for free movement of the plunger and all viable seals and such?

Did you get all the plugs and vacuum lines back connected. Does it idle fast? I ask, because my first time I remember I missed connection of a vacuum line that was out of sight around the back of the intake on the passenger side. I could hear it hiss but took me a while and a smoke generator before I found it.:biggrin:
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Update

I removed and cleaned the throttle body. It was very dirty. Replaced with new gasket. Didnt want to start....kinda stumbled while trying to start but it started without me pressing on the gas pedal. Runs much smoother and doesn't die at any point. Very big improvement.

I did listen for the fuel pump prior to starting....I can hear it run.

The only time this engine has a problem starting is when it's cold. As I mentioned earlier it "stumble starts" when cold. Hot/warm start no problems.

Any suggestions what to look for next?
 

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Did you, by chance, forget to re-connect the IAT (intake air temp) sensor?
Is it throwing any codes? (CEL?)
Did you check the air filter while working on TB?

Also, don't discount crappy gas - before you start going over it with a fine toothed comb, wait until its down to 1/4 tank or less and fill up at a different gas station.
 

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Did you, by chance, forget to re-connect the IAT (intake air temp) sensor?
Is it throwing any codes? (CEL?)
Did you check the air filter while working on TB?

Also, don't discount crappy gas - before you start going over it with a fine toothed comb, wait until its down to 1/4 tank or less and fill up at a different gas station.
Made me remember...

I was wrenching for my friend Jimmy about 25 years ago, we started getting unhappy customers because suddenly all the work we had done was turning to crap.
Hard starts, rough idle, we couldn't deny that is was poor operation...
We narrowed it down to Ammoco gasoline at a particular station. They had a great price and bad gas. I think I may have even got a tank of it before we realized.

Scott, The IAT atoman mentions is an electrical connector about midpoint on the 4" diameter bellows hose from the airbox to the throttle body. At least that is where it is located on my 2002 w/3.8L.
 

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Does your starter sound labored when you try to start it cold?
 

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To verify your spark is good, pull the fuel pump relay so it doesn't spray fuel. Open the plastic inlet duct and spray starter fluid in as a partner cranks the engine (or rig a remote starter). Give little shots of starter fluid to keep it running. The ether in it burns over a wide O/F ratio so should run pretty good if you have a good spark. If true, focus on the fuel. To verify pump assembly, measure the fuel rail pressure (my 2002 has a Shraeder port on tube at engine). Harbor Freight sells a cheap gage kit. Should be a steady ~55 psig (check your manual). If OK, perhaps an injector is stuck open, flooding w/ fuel. However, I think that would affect just 1 cyl so would be barely noticed in a V-6. Worst you could remove the injectors and test (I rigged a bench at home). Many places on ebay you can send your injectors to have them refurb'ed cheap. I had a bad coil-pack in our 3.8L. It was making a clicking sound at idle and I found the 2 spark plugs on 1 coil wouldn't flash a clamp-on timing lamp. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The van is working well. No issues at the moment. Certainly the throttle body cleaning was a huge if not the entire problem. I do also suspect water in the fuel. The tank was very low and we had a snowstorm come through so condensation could have been a part of the problem. Thanks for all the great help.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Back to square one. This morning it is doing the same thing as before. Not wanting to start. Identical, It cranks really well but wont fire until I push on the gas.:angry1:
 
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