The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070205/FREE/70205002/1528

ref above;

Diesels are not popular here in the US than in Europe or Asia; probably because it is cheaper in other countries and provides more miles per gallon. I'm looking 2 years from now how it would play out considering honda, toyota, subaru et. al. are planning to introduce diesel variants of their products.

Fuel prices here are triple than what it used to be in 2001. I'm paying the oil companies for what I should otherwise spend on other things, talk about slowing economy/sales. Money >>>>>going to oil companies>>>> from captured consumers. Do we have a choice?


bulldog van.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,332 Posts
Military can buy overseas version and bring here. I looked at that when I was in Germany years ago. Just have to bring it to "standard" here when it comes in. Wasn't worth it then......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
312 Posts
Oh abseloutly. I would buy a diesel in a heartbeat! But only if the diesel option was at a similar cost to say, upgrading to the 4.0L engine.

In some pickups, you can expect to pay almost $7,000 extra for a diesel engine.

A 40-45 mpg DGC? It would be interesting to see!

As for military, I dont know a thing about the US army. However for the Canadian Armed Forces, diesel would be nice as we could reduce the amount of infrastructure we would need. All of our field vehicles are now diesels. As for our civilian pattern vehicles, It isnt worth the additional costing to import our standard civilian vehicles.

Most of our military pattern vehicles tho are imported, or foriegn desigined and made in canada.. The mercedes benz g-wagen and actros trucks are direct imports.
 

·
Certified Minivan Freak
Joined
·
9,436 Posts
Fuel prices here are triple than what it used to be in 2001. I'm paying the oil companies for what I should otherwise spend on other things, talk about slowing economy/sales. Money >>>>>going to oil companies>>>> from captured consumers. Do we have a choice?
Quit driving. Ride a bus. Ride a bike. Walk. Live closer to work. Buy a plug-in hybrid. Carpool. Buy a Yaris or an Aveo. Buy a diesel Jetta and run 100% veggie oil in it.

Lots of choice. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
I think if the van comes to market here in the 'States it would make a nice addition to the fleet . Of course as Jason pointed out you could just alter your driving habits & save a little coin that way. High price gas could be the solution to America's obesity problem.
 

·
Vendor
Joined
·
1,105 Posts
Like Fox said, if it is a reasonable option cost wise, the sure.
But having to pay an extra $3000-4000 for a diesel, plus the fact that for the past 18 months diesel has been $0.30-0.50 more per gallon than gas, and the cost savings of better MPG is not there as much.
Also, the MPG of the diesels I have seen (Comparing some of the overseas versions to the gas that is available here, and even the few diesels avilable here) have fallen short of these "great 40-50mpg" vehicles, unless your looking in the compact or sub compact world.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
I was looking at an advertisement for a Lexus hybrid SUV and I was thinking why has no one tackled the minivan / hybrid combo ? It seems like it would be a crazy good idea for the company who could bring it to market. I guess like the diesel it would only work if there was a noticeable increase in fuel economy .Why pay an extra 5 to 10,000 dollars to see an increase of a couple MPG?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
you lot should whach a prog called "top gear" its a uk prog and they got a reg diesel car and put veg oil in it with no mods and it went for ages and it was as good as reg fuel :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
you lot should whach a prog called "top gear" its a uk prog and they got a reg diesel car and put veg oil in it with no mods and it went for ages and it was as good as reg fuel :)
That would NOT be the experience of most drivers. Suggest that anyone interested visit the many web sites devoted to diesel, biodiesel, waste veg oil (WVO), and straight veg oil (SVO). The use of veg oil (in its many forms) as a fuel is not as simplistic as some would have one believe. If the derived fuel is imperfect, serious injection pump damages result. Pump rebuilds cost ~$500 plus mechanical skills, tools, and computer programs to re-time (on the newer crd/pd/tdi engines) Might be a fun hobby but WVO/SVO is unreliable - especially in cold weather.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
you lot should whach a prog called "top gear" its a uk prog and they got a reg diesel car and put veg oil in it with no mods and it went for ages and it was as good as reg fuel :)
What make/ model car did they use? That doesn't sound healthy for a modern diesel engine.
 

·
Certified Minivan Freak
Joined
·
9,436 Posts
It takes very little to retrofit a diesel to run vegetable oil-based fuel. VERY little. Many people don't change a thing. The fuel is reportedly supposed to be better than diesel in terms of lubricity, so the engine apparently sees some benefits. Few OEMs will endorse beyond B5 (5% veg oil) or B20 (20% veg oil). But a lot of people run B100 (100% veg oil) in diesels of all ages -- and some commercial truck/bus fleets run B90 or B100 as well.

There's a lot that can change with veg oil use, though, like driveability concerns. OEMs have to warrant actual failures as well as subjective concerns, like hard starting, etc. That's why they limit the veg oil content...not necessarily because of the "damage" factor, but because of the driveability factors. Shadetree mechanics who run B100 in their '86 diesel Rabbit are more apt to either put up with hard starting, or fix the problem with a home-made fuel heater, compared with someone who dumped some veggie grease into his '06 Jetta TDI.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
250 Posts
It takes very little to retrofit a diesel to run vegetable oil-based fuel. VERY little. Many people don't change a thing. The fuel is reportedly supposed to be better than diesel in terms of lubricity, so the engine apparently sees some benefits. Few OEMs will endorse beyond B5 (5% veg oil) or B20 (20% veg oil). But a lot of people run B100 (100% veg oil) in diesels of all ages -- and some commercial truck/bus fleets run B90 or B100 as well.

There's a lot that can change with veg oil use, though, like driveability concerns. OEMs have to warrant actual failures as well as subjective concerns, like hard starting, etc. That's why they limit the veg oil content...not necessarily because of the "damage" factor, but because of the driveability factors. Shadetree mechanics who run B100 in their '86 diesel Rabbit are more apt to either put up with hard starting, or fix the problem with a home-made fuel heater, compared with someone who dumped some veggie grease into his '06 Jetta TDI.

Jason, I regret that my previous post on this thread was not informative enough for you to learn that BIODIESEL (BD) is a highly refined fuel that CAN be made from vegetable oil and other natural substances. BIODIESEL can be used as fuel in all diesel applications without modification of the fuel delivery system of the application. WASTE VEG. OIL (WVO) and STRAIGHT (virgin) VEG. OIL (SVO) require fuel delivery system modification. Each has attendant problems. BD, for example, gels at a warmer temperature than petroleum diesel and that makes it more problematic in colder climates. It is also hydroscopic, ergo algae grows in it. WVO and SVO require either a petroleum diesel start up of the engine to activate a heat exchanger in the VO tank to sufficiently heat the VO to reduce the viscosity - or an external heat source to reduce the viscosity. The former method requires a switching valve to change over from the petro diesel to the VO once it is heated. (Actually, in my example above, one could be starting up with BD). You state that "VERY little retrofit is needed" and "many people don't change a thing". I don't know exactly what "very little" means to you but I drive diesel cars every day (I currently own 3) and I belong to a diesel enthusiast club and I have seen multiple WVO/SVO retrofits and they are not simplistic. Most of the WVO/SVO retrofits done with parts from Home Depot are abject failures and result in severe engine damage. The commercial retrofit kits are only slightly more successful. Nearly every day I read on one forum or another about injector pump failures resulting from attempting to run WVO/SVO. Filter clogging and water contamination are givens. BIODIESEL is another matter altogether. I wish I could find a first class source locally. Your "shade tree mechanic" using B100 (100% BD) is a lucky guy and unless he lives in the forzen north he will have no hard starting. I know some home brewers but they sometimes fail to wash all the glycerine out and often the fuel is waterlogged. As I said before, do it for a hobby but don't get too far away from home....and it might help to have a friend with a tow truck. :beerchug:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
223 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
http://www.greasecar.com/kit_detail.cfm?prodID=23

ref above : Product was shown last sunday on trucks/Spike TV Channel. They converted a rock crawler with a VW TDI diesel engine.


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/10/mercedes-unveils-new-range-of-diesel-four-cylinders/

ref above : mercedes 2.1 / 4-cylinder diesel with impressive hp and torque output plus good fuel consumption. Perhaps might find it's way into a chrysler minivan in the future; 204 hp and 368 lb.-ft. of torque, reducing emissions by over 10-percent. When fitted in the new C-class (250CDI) it's able to make the run to 60 in 7.7 seconds while getting 46 mpg.



bulldog van
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,029 Posts
The article had some old data in it--The article was last updated over a year ago, when Daimler was still in charge.

I think Diesel would be a hard sell today, given that Diesel is so much more expensive then gasoline right now. Even if the fuel mileage difference more than compensates, most people do not appreciate the relative advantages of diesel.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,203 Posts
I would consider trading up to a diesel minivan if Chrysler will sell it here.
One would think that sooner or later Diesel would be pushed by the government as the fuel of choice for cutting fuel use.
Every other source they try to force on us uses more energy and requires subsidies to be competitive.
To me Diesel....especially with the low sulpher stuff, is the clean fuel of choice. It has the fewest trade offs.
I wouldn't be surprised if the price of gasoline goes higher than diesel this summer at the rate the price is going up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
I would consider trading up to a diesel minivan if Chrysler will sell it here.
One would think that sooner or later Diesel would be pushed by the government as the fuel of choice for cutting fuel use.
Every other source they try to force on us uses more energy and requires subsidies to be competitive.
To me Diesel....especially with the low sulpher stuff, is the clean fuel of choice. It has the fewest trade offs.
I wouldn't be surprised if the price of gasoline goes higher than diesel this summer at the rate the price is going up.
I would disagree with diesel becoming cheaper than gas , simply because for most fleet/commercial vehicles , you have no alternative to diesel. For the average commuter you can go to a sub compact, hybrid or public transportation. If your job revolves around your vehicle the oil companies (and local /state governments ) know they have you trapped, in order to stay in buisiness , you will pay whatever they charge & make cuts elsewhere or just pass the cost on to your customers.I think for this reason you will see no price breaks on diesel.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
4,203 Posts
Public Transportation is highly subsidized.

Subcompacts don't fit all applications.

Diesel has been cheaper that gas in the past. We relied on it just as much then as we do now, so that arguement doesn't really hold water.
I could see lowering the cost of diesel being a fairly good economic stimulus vs. the comical "Tax Rebate" handouts those of us in the US will be getting next month. My suggestion is to put that handout in the bank.
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Top