The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This problem is repeatable. After being off overnight my 2012 minivan turns over quickly but doesn't start. I let it sit for a while and try again. After several failures, the engine goes to about 1000 rpm and abruptly stops. I discovered that if I catch it at 1000 rpm and push the accelerator, it takes off and runs normally. I drove 100 miles, no problem.

Chrysler dealership service department said the AC compressor was drawing too much current from the engine. Replaced AC compressor. Problem remained. Service agent said the problem was a faulty fuse block. Fuse block is on back order so they disconnected the AC completely and gave me the car back to drive. After parking the minivan overnight in my garage, the problem is back.

Edit Note: The problem started last Friday. Thursday evening the minivan was drenched in a heavy rain storm.

I would appreciate any ideas or explanations as to what is happening.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,730 Posts
Sounds like Dealership incompetence or upselling or both.

What codes are showing up?

Were any repairs made to the vehicle just before this problem started happening?

Basic engine requirements are air, ignition and fuel. Air is easy enough to check.

Sounding like fuel but give us anymore information you have. The Dealership is ripping you off with the ac compressor replacement. That could have been disconnected and experimented with. Oh yes, and throw a power module at it. What did they actually test?

By the way Service Managers tend to work on commission and will tell you just about anything to help empty your wallet and enrich theirs. Usually they know squat. The Parts guys are better informed but you really needed to speak to the Mechanic.

Next upselling initiative will be an engine flush. :(
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Sounds similar to the fuel pump relay failure. The fuse box should fix your problem, but not for the reason the mechanic says it will.

Don't know what they were going on about with the A/C. Unless the clutch was stuck on (which is a control issue or mechanical failure in the A/C clutch), it shouldn't have affected starting at all. The A/C doesn't engage until after the engine has been running for a second or two normally. Since you said "drawing too much current", that sounds like a control issue, which would not be fixed by replacing the compressor. This was always a fuse box issue.
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
  • Like
Reactions: Saabman and Jeepman

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Here is some more detail.

There were no recent repairs to the minivan. The day before the morning it first failed to start the car was filled with gas at Sam's Club. That evening the car was drenched with rain.

After I went to collect the car from the dealer the first time, and paid the bill to get it, here are what I think are the technician's comments on the bill.
" ... If you use starter spray to start and keep the engine running the drive belt will begin to squeal due to the a/c compressor seizing. After unplugging the A/C compressor the vehicle started just fine. Suggest replacing the A/C compressor, spark plugs, and do a fuel induction cleaning."

Those things were apparently done when I paid the first bill for the worked described above, $2246.37, (that includes plugs and a transmission leak.)

But I left the minivan there because when I went to drive it away, it wouldn't start again. Problem was not fixed. Later when service agent called me he said I need a fuse block. I asked the agent that the company share the expense of the compressor -- as the old compressor is perfectly good. He said the compressor was not good because the serpentine belt wrapped inside it.

The service agent said the fuse block is on back order and he can return the minivan to me for now with the A/C disconnected. I picked up the minivan but had to pay another $127.34. Here are what I think are technician's comments on the that second bill.
"Tested the cam sensors for 5 volts and then verified the crank position sensor also has 5 volts. Every so often when the vehicle starts the a/c compressor will not rotate and force the belt to squeal. Once the a/c compressor is unplugged the vehicle has no issues starting and will rotate freely. Turned the a/c off in the vehicle and then tested the output. The compressor reads 14 volts while running with the a/c off. Left the a/c unplugged, suggest replacing the tipm at this time"

I drove the minivan home and parked in my garage. Next afternoon (today) the car won't start again. Same problem.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
27,730 Posts
Did the belt ever squeal when you tried to start it?

"belt wrapped inside it" could mean the clutch coil failing, don't know. The serpentine belt wouldn't wrap inside it.

The Compressor Clutch Torque Transfer and Beyond

Clutches are replaceable or adjustable on some vehicles. Know of an Acura that has been shim adjusted 3 times. Next time it will need to be replaced, no space left.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Did the belt ever squeal when you tried to start it?
No. I haven't heard any belt squealing. But then the problem came on all at once very recently so I only experienced a few starts. Once the engine runs, I have driven 100 miles normally/quietly.
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Sounds like an attempt to blow smoke up your butt. As an experienced mechanic, I can tell you not a damn thing they said made any sense in terms of replacing the A/C compressor. This was always an electrical issue. The belt couldn't have been running fine with the A/C unplugged and been stuck behind the compressor in the same visit. They just don't want to pay for their horribly expensive misdiagnosis.

Since this is a dealer trying to screw you, contact Chrysler Cares. You can @ them on this forum or find the number and call them. You need corporate's help dealing with this snakey dealer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: breichert1215

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
How many miles are on your 2012? Do you get any smoke when you "catch it at 1,000 rpm"?
What's the general condition of your vehicle maintenance wise? How old is your battery?....read the voltage in the morning.
Is your throttle body clean? ...they gunk up sometimes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Sienile:
Thanks. I will contact Chrysler Cares.

Kira:
The 2012 has 91,000 miles.
No, there has been no smoke.
The minivan is in very good condition. I change oil every 3000 miles. It's clean. Everything works.
Battery is only 1 year old.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I returned the minivan to the dealership to get a rental because I can't rely on my minivan to start when needed. My notes say the cost of the back ordered fuse block will be another $575.

I told the service agent that I think the removed A/C is good. He again explained it is not, saying that the fuse block sent too much power to the A/C causing the serpentine to wrap inside the compressor - this time he said it wrapped in the A/C's clutch.

A couple of questions:
Q1 I am thinking of waiting until the job is finished and the paperwork complete before asking Chrysler Cares to look into it. Does that make sense?

Q2 Can a belt wrap into an A/C clutch? From pictures, the clutch seems to be enclosed. Is it likely that the that the old compressor is good? Should I ask for the old parts?

Q3 I am wondering if replacing the fuse block seems like the best way to go forward at this point, or if I should ask that something else should be looked at first?
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
1. No, waiting until it's done doesn't make sense. CC can come in, investigate, and get a result before you have to shell out more money. The rip-off portion has already happened. Going to wait until they rip you off again before you let them hear the guard dog bark?

Here, I'll help you get the ball rolling. @ChryslerCares , this guy ( @StanHilliard ) was duped into an A/C compressor replacement he obviously didn't need. Dealer's explanations defy all mechanical sense, and it didn't even resolve his issue.

2. The clutch is rather enclosed. Possible, but not likely that the belt could get caught up in it. Absolutely impossible that the fuse box sent too much power to it, and even less possible that any amount of power shot to it would cause the belt to get stuck in it. Doubtful they will give you the old parts and will probably say they've been thrown away. Now that you've already alerted them to your suspicions of getting ripped off, they are going to be in full ass covering mode.

3. Your actual problem appears to be a faulty fuel pump relay. Since you say this happened immediately following a large rain, it's possible the whole inside got wet which could mean problems down the road if you don't replace the whole thing. If not for that, I'd say get the bypass kit from Vertical Visions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: breichert1215

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Jeepman came up with the same thoughts as well. But you can definitely point them to this thread. You can even tell them I'd bet my A1 that your A/C compressor had nothing to do with your starting issue.

Either way of contacting them is fine. Just don't try to pass my words off as yours. You don't want to sound like you know more about how things work than you do. You knew enough that something wasn't right about what they were saying and that's plenty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I have supplied proof of purchase to uscustomercare after they requested it from me, so I believe they are investigating.

I was notified by the dealer's service agent that the fuse block is still on back order and is estimated to take 45 more days.

No mention of any other issue.

I don't want to have the rental for that long so, if my minivan starts, I plan to return the rental and pick up my minivan later today - unless someone suggests that is not wise.
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Look up Vertical Visions. They have fuel pump relay bypass cables. Easy enough to make one yourself while you wait on the fuse box.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Look up Vertical Visions. They have fuel pump relay bypass cables. Easy enough to make one yourself while you wait on the fuse box.
Thanks. I ordered a Vertical Visions fuel pump relay bypass simple cable. Will have it in 2 days.

I picked up my minivan from the dealer. It started but only by giving it gas at 1000 rpm. I drove it home 20 miles with no problem.

The brakes are sticking. The frontwards movement freed up with a little movement. When I move backwards on the flat, it stops rolling backwards abruptly. This could be from when the minivan was drenched. I'm considering adding Heet to the gas tank.
 

·
Registered
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan
Joined
·
3,025 Posts
Heet won't help anything. That's just an injector and tank cleaner.

Rolling when running or off? When running, that could be hill start assist. Only thing that I think could cause that while off is something binding in the transmission or horribly warped rotors (which would probably bind in both directions).
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top