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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm working on diagnosing a transmission problem in a 2016 Grand Caravan R/T. I want to check and see what the experts think and make sure I'm headed down the right path.

The family and I were two hours into a four hour trip when the transmission went into limp mode on the freeway. That was a super fun experience. After getting to a gas station I toggled the key to get the code which if I remember correctly was P083B but, I'm not 100% sure. I disconnected the battery and reconnected it and then checked the fluid. The fluid looked fine. Tried to put it in driver and there was no power. I was able to reverse it but, only a little bit before it stopped working as well.

After towing it home and getting it into the garage I read that a fluid and filter change is the first step and might fix the P083B code. Did all that and no luck. The P0838B code cam back. So I ohmed out the connector on the transmission. Everything measured where it should. The only thing I didn't have a spec on was the line pressure sensor. So I ordered one and put it in. The P083B didn't come back right away. Instead I got a P0944 and a code for the 3rd gear not being in range.

I used AlfaOBD to view the pressure sensor but, it only gives me the voltage of the sensor. The voltage doesn't change when I turn the engine on and only changes when I rev the engine up. It will go into gear if I rev it up but, it makes a whining noise right before engaging. I'm assuming that's the transmission slippling because there isn't enough pressure.

At this point I'm guessing that it's one of three things.

1. The filter is loose causing the P0944
2. The front pump is bad
3. There's an internal leak and the transmission needs to be rebuilt.

Rather then throw parts at it and pull the transmission in and out I want to try and nail it down.

I plan on double checking the filter and then measure the pressure on the pressure port. I want to match that up to the pressure sensor readings in a scan tool. If those come out good I'll assume it's an internal leak and rebuild the transmission. If there's not enough pressure then I'll replace the pump.

Is there anything else I should be looking at?

EDIT FINAL RESOLUTION*
For anyone that stumbles on this in the future here is the final resolution. Should still look through the tread as there has been a ton of diagnostic manuals posted, rebuild videos, etc.. that helped me through this. Thanks to everyone for your help. You saved me a TON of money.


Changed fluid and filter -> No change (There was very small pieces of metal in pan)
Ohm'd solenoid pack -> Everything in spec range
Checked sensors and found no change in voltage on the pressure sensor when pushing the gas pedal down.
Replaced pressure sensor
-> Had pressure when pushing gas pedal down no change in transmission engagement.
Rebuilt transmission using banner kit -> Found a crushed bearing in the input drum and clogged fluid ports from pieces of metal getting lodged in them.
Replaced torque converter and flushed transmission cooler to be safe.
Put rebuilt transmission back in the van
-> Had forward motion and reverse. Forward slipped and had to be at 1000 RPM or higher to engage. Kept getting codes for low power on TCM.
Did Quicklearn using AlfaOBD, cleared VLP counters, put Torque Converter into break in mode. -> Couldn't do it at first because of the codes and the transmission being in limp mode. The VLP counters help reset the limp mode and then I was able to do the quick learn. The first gear slip went away but still had to be at 1000 RPM to engage. I could drive the car but, it would shift erratically and go into limp mode. Using auto stick made it enter limp mode faster.
Checked pressure sensor reading -> Had .5 volts or less at idle but, I would see pressure build if I gave the engine gas.
Using the diagnostic procedure I Ohm'd out all of the PCM/Transmission wires from the fuse box, to the PCM, to the transmission. -> Everything checked out.
Checked codes -> Getting gear ratios codes, pressure switch rationality codes, and loss of prime codes.
Replaced the Solenoid -> Transmission shift correctly, no more codes, everything works.
 

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Both are pressure codes, so you're on the right track. A failed solenoid could also cause that if it stuck in a position that allows fluid to leak past. How nasty was the original fluid? Was there a lot of shavings on the magnet?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Both are pressure codes, so you're on the right track. A failed solenoid could also cause that if it stuck in a position that allows fluid to leak past. How nasty was the original fluid? Was there a lot of shavings on the magnet?
The fluid wasn't great. The magnet didn't seem super bad. There was few flakes of something stuck on it. The filter was very rough.
 

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Flakes? Normal wear would look like a dark grey, fine grain glitter. Anything large enough to be described as a flake seems like bad news.
 
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How many miles on the van ? ....
 

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Does the transmission whine in neutral, at least when transmission fluid is hot? I guess before you changed the filter...

Had the same just happen at about 94k miles on a 2014. Ended up being the torque converter mechanically eating up it's clutch / housing and spewing this debris into the filter...clogging it.
Got a new geniune Mopar TC, solenoid body, TCC and transducer solenoid and put in a complete master overhaul kit. Also changed some bushings for TC / front pump and on the input drums.
Runs fine again. Parts in it about 1.500 USD. (since this all needed to go to Germany...more shipping and customs involved)

If I lived in the US, I probably would have just gotten an overhauled Mopar unit (RL090720AD) from rockauto for about 2.5k USD including TC and warranty.

What's the status on your transmission?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Does the transmission whine in neutral, at least when transmission fluid is hot? I guess before you changed the filter...

Had the same just happen at about 94k miles on a 2014. Ended up being the torque converter mechanically eating up it's clutch / housing and spewing this debris into the filter...clogging it.
Got a new geniune Mopar TC, solenoid body, TCC and transducer solenoid and put in a complete master overhaul kit. Also changed some bushings for TC / front pump and on the input drums.
Runs fine again. Parts in it about 1.500 USD. (since this all needed to go to Germany...more shipping and customs involved)

If I lived in the US, I probably would have just gotten an overhauled Mopar unit (RL090720AD) from rockauto for about 2.5k USD including TC and warranty.

What's the status on your transmission?
I dropped the oan to double check the filter and found a tiny cube of metal. I'm guessing it's a tooth from something..... So I've resigned myself to rebuilding the transmission. I've almost go the transmission out but, I can't get it to separate from the engine. All the bolts and mounts are remove and the darn thing us stuck.


This is a picture of the piece of metal. I looked in the old oil and found a few more there too.

62951
 

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Hard to tell what it is from the pic. May even be a piece of a lock ring. Either way, big bits is bad news. Definitely need to take it apart and fix it before it gets even worse.
 

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...I can't get it to separate from the engine. All the bolts and mounts are remove and the darn thing us stuck.
I assume you separated the torque converter from the flex plate, right? You unscrewed the two starter bolts (starter can stay where it is)
If it still won't separte, then you must have missed at least one bolt around the bell housing. There is one hiding in the back where the rear motor mount goes.
 

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I have seen the torque converter snout get stuck in the crankshaft. If you've gotten all 6 torque converter bolts and the converter doesn't move away from the engine, that's the issue. No real solution than to just yank it off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I assume you separated the torque converter from the flex plate, right? You unscrewed the two starter bolts (starter can stay where it is)
If it still won't separte, then you must have missed at least one bolt around the bell housing. There is one hiding in the back where the rear motor mount goes.
I have seen the torque converter snout get stuck in the crankshaft. If you've gotten all 6 torque converter bolts and the converter doesn't move away from the engine, that's the issue. No real solution than to just yank it off.

I counted the bolts and it definitely isn't/wasn't that. I also made sure all of the torque converter bolts were remvoed altough there's only 4 on this van.

In the end I had to pry the transmission and engine apart. I guess those dowles are more pressed on then I thought. Alot of cussing, shaking, and prying finally got it out.

For anyone looking in the future. They don't just fall apart or easily separate. You need to force them apart just a bit. Also need to watch the shim or metal gasket or whatever it is that is between the engine and transmission. It got stuck on a dowel and I didn't realize it. It's now very much bent to ****. Now for the fun part and pulling the transmission apart and rebuilding.
Motor vehicle Automotive tire Auto part Gas Bumper
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Here's a question. What's the best kit to get? What kit should I get (master, overhaul)?
 

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@Special Edy , you're the only one I know that likes to play around this deep in the trans. Got any advice?
 

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I am not Edy, but I just did this overhaul.

You want to put in a master kit, overhaul kit does not include steels and frictions...

Your shopping list:

mopar master kit (68272623AB)
new mopar solenoid body (68371508AA)
new mopar TCC solenoid (05169313AA)
new mopar line pressure sensor (05078708AC)
new mopar torque converter (4753538AB)
new sonnax bushings at front pump and input drum

Eyewear Audio equipment Font Gas Circle

Wheel Tire Automotive tire Alloy wheel Rim

Automotive tire Motor vehicle Bumper Gas Auto part

Circuit component Gear Engineering Auto part Wood

Automotive tire Automotive design Motor vehicle Sleeve Bag

I recommend u get a copy of the ATSG 62TE repair manual. This guides you thru all the rought parts.

Good luck!

Alex
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I am not Edy, but I just did this overhaul.

You want to put in a master kit, overhaul kit does not include steels and frictions...

Your shopping list:

mopar master kit (68272623AB)
new mopar solenoid body (68371508AA)
new mopar transducer (05078708AC)
new mopar line pressure sensor (05169313AA)
new mopar torque converter (4753538AB)
new sonnax bushings at front pump and input drum

View attachment 62956

View attachment 62957

View attachment 62958

View attachment 62959

View attachment 62960

I recommend u get a copy of the ATSG 62TE repair manual. This guides you thru all the rought parts.

Good luck!

Alex
Thanks this is perfect.

I got the master kit on the way, along with a tool to help compress the springs, assembly grease, and a bottle of transmission cooler flush. Still looking for the best deal on the torque converter.

One question I have not been able to find the answer too. How can you tell if the pump is good or bad once it's been pulled? I haven't pulled it out yet so it might be obvious. I do have the procedure for measuring the clearance with plastiguage but is there more to it?
 

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Not really. If there's no visible grooves or damage and the plasti-guage shows it to be within spec, then it should be good.
 
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One question I have not been able to find the answer too. How can you tell if the pump is good or bad once it's been pulled? I haven't pulled it out yet so it might be obvious. I do have the procedure for measuring the clearance with plastiguage but is there more to it?
There was a time these front pumps were not machined right...

If not applicable I don't think they fail... just do the overhaul on bushings, seals and screws.

A remanufactured 62TE takes about 8.5 litre ATF+4.
 

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That piece of metal in the picture is a piece of snap ring. Most of the transmission is held together with snap rings, all the clutches, discs, hubs, and pistons. Snap rings breaking is a very common failure, make sure to replace all of the old ones. Somewhere in your transmission that snap ring is destroyed, now that clutch pack it held in can't grab and the transmission is slipping, plus metal is everywhere.

Overhaul kit is the way to go, I highly, highly doubt you'll need the friction discs in a banner kit or master rebuild kit, not at 100,000 miles. Probably won't need any bushings, you can measure the diameter of these as you go through the transmission.

I highly recommend getting the Transgo Shift Kit, if for nothing other than the very detailed assembly instructions, diagrams, and tips contained within.

Make sure to check the splines of the input clutch hubs, I've seen several trashed on 41TEs, and Chrysler used the same parts here on the 62TE.


You'll definitely need an inch/lb torque wrench, a ft/lb torque wrench, digital caliper, telescoping bore gauges ($15.99 at Harbor Freight), and most importantly a clamping dial indicator ($35 @Harbor Freight), a pan to presoak the new clutches in, and a little hand held oiler to assemble things with ATF.


Make sure to document the layout of the parts as you remove them, lay them out in order, and don't let them get disorganized. No matter how careful you are, at some point youre going to be looking at two slightly different snap rings wondering which one goes in first, cursing yourself for not being more thorough organizing the old parts.

Clearances are the most important thing during rebuilding. OD vs ID of bushings, and using the dial indicator you will see the clearance within each clutch pack. Final assembly you'll measure the end play of the entire rotating stack. You may be putting it together then taking it apart a few times to swap a snap ring or disc to get a different tolerance.


You'll need a new Torque converter and oil cooler(aka radiator), the old ones are full of metal bits from the dead transmission. The oil pump picks up fluid through the filter, pumps it through the torque converter, from the torque converter it goes through the oil cooler, then it goes into the lubrication circuits. The alternative is to install an aftermarket remote oil filter on the cooler return line like I did, this will catch any junk inside the TC or oil cooler.

You don't need a reset after reinstallation. You can put the van on jackstands, run the van through all of the gear positions several times, then accelerate to 60mph slowly and brake to 0mph slowly about 80 times on the stands, and then rapid acceleration/brake to 60mph 80 times. This will shift the transmission through all the gears and relearn the shift points/clutch volume indexes without and load. After that it's ready to test drive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Pretty sure it's not supposed to look like that. I'm not sure exactly which bearing blew up but there's bits of the rollers everywhere.

I did learn one trick. You do not need a slide hammer to get the pump off. Just put two of the bolts from the transmission case in the threaded holes and ratchet them down. It presses right out super easy.

62968


Here is another view of the drum with everything pulled out.

62969
 
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