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2016 Town and Country shift issues.

18K views 22 replies 10 participants last post by  civie 
#1 ·
I have a 2016 TC and am having some issues with the transmission around 25 to 40mph. If I am on any sort of incline the van really bogs down and does not want to accelerate. The trans can downshift dramatically very much feels like a manual downshift. And the most dramatic issue is no throttle response on some occasions the van just will not accelerate out of a turn which scares the crap out of my wife. I took it to the dealership as the vehicle is still under the 60k power train warranty and they spent all day testing it and of course it didn’t throw a code so there was nothing wrong. Can any one help me out with some maintenance items I could try to resolve this issue.
 
#2 ·
One thing you may want to do is see how it performs if you set it into 4th or 3rd gear. Does it run right? Also make sure you don't have the Eco button pressed!
In general it takes a heavy right foot to get these vans to downshift. It is rediculous if you turned on Eco.
 
#3 ·
The eco button was one of the first things I checked on after browsing other post on this site. Also the dramatic downshift is while I am decelerating. I will try driving it in 3rd and 4th to see how it performs. One other thing I was contemplating was changing the fuel filter as it was a fleet car before I bought it and there was no telling where their gas came from. But I cannot find any information on where the filter is located.
 
#6 ·
My '13 GC does pretty much the same thing, lugging and sluggishly picking up speed when climbing a slight upgrade below 40 mph, until I punch it enough to get a downshift. I think the problem is the gearing. At the speeds you mention, under light throttle, the transmission is trying to make a go of it in 4th gear, which is only something like 1.47:1 ratio, as opposed to 3rd which is a 2.28:1 ratio. That's a huge drop, hence there isn't enough oomph below 40-45 mph without forcing a downshift to 3rd. Why the designers didn't use something more in the range of a 1.65:1 4th gear I don't know. This tranny has two 4th gear ratios, 1.47 and 1.57, with 1.47 being the one you get during a normal shift sequence and 1.57 being the kickdown ratio. They should have reversed the ratios in my opinion.
I suggest you use your manual transmission control to lock it in 3rd up to 45 mph when you anticipate a situation like you describe.
 
#7 ·
Our 2014 T&C does the exact same thing. It's really worrisome when accelerating up a highway on ramp and having power/acceleration cut out suddenly, especially seeing that you are trying to merge into traffic. Pushing the accelerator leads to a sharp downshift and rapid acceleration.
I agree that it is more likely a gearing issue. I've had the transmission checked many times to no avail.
 
#8 ·
I've read many different sources stating the "gearing" (especially OD gear) is too tall for this heavy weight vehicle. Especially since their 17" rim upgrades for their larger size HD disc brakes. Large size tire (compared to original build using 225-65-16) means more rotations for same ground speed. And, more weight to turn. Add a hill and its a perfect combo for "lugging". Especially when the van is loaded down as well. If you feel "too much" lugging is happening, manually shift (force) into lower gear. I often pull in 5th gear when towing under 50 mph. In mid Oct, I'll be installing new 225-60-17 "rubber" to help reduce its "too tall" gearing as well. IMO, its engine / transmission combo has too low of engine RPM for its ground speed - especially compared to other V6 engine vehicles. Thus, factory "lugging" when doing under 50 mph range...
 
#9 ·
I've read many different sources stating the "gearing" (especially OD gear) is too tall for this heavy weight vehicle. Especially since their 17" rim upgrades for their larger size HD disc brakes. Large size tire (compared to original build using 225-65-16) means more rotations for same ground speed. And, more weight to turn. Add a hill and its a perfect combo for "lugging". Especially when the van is loaded down as well. If you feel "too much" lugging is happening, manually shift (force) into lower gear. I often pull in 5th gear when towing under 50 mph. In mid Oct, I'll be installing new 225-60-17 "rubber" to help reduce its "too tall" gearing as well. IMO, its engine / transmission combo has too low of engine RPM for its ground speed - especially compared to other V6 engine vehicles. Thus, factory "lugging" when doing under 50 mph range...
No, gears are correctly calculated for most applications. I do a lot of heavy trailering, no complaints so far.

Wrong!
 
#10 ·
Levy. Typo on my part. yes. Large size tires means LESS rotations per mile. On flat land and doing above 60 MPH, my 2017 DGC pulls nice. But between 40 and 55 MPH going up/down hills, its a slug. Especially when loaded down. One can feel it lugging up and down the hills / always at slower ground speeds - always on the edge of wanting to down shift - cause its lugging to much. At 55, its RPM is around 1,250. For my other vehicle (with V6 engine) at same ground speed, its engine RPM is at 1,600 ish. Yes, slightly more engine RPM but this little bit does matter. Put 60 Series tires on DGC (which is 3.2% smaller than factory 65 series) and its engine RPM will be into normal RPM range - when comparing to other V6 engine RPMs (at same ground speed). Everyone knows that "lugging" an auto transmission from tool low of RPMs is very hard on it....
 
#12 ·
Hi-way driving 65+ mph (like on 400 series btween Montreal and Toronto that also have smooth rolling hills), my DGC pulls nice. But do 45-55 mph on single paved road (like hiway 7 between Ottawa and Peterborough) pulling a loaded trailer and the factory default gearing "lugs" too much. Especially up the hills. Knowing what I know now, I should have bought 2017 DGC with towing gears (if they offered towing gears as an option). One should not have to manually force the transmission in a lower gear for normal country paved road conditions.
 
#13 ·
No such thing as towing gears. Factory would not sacrifice mileage just to please a few that thinks like you. Most people prefer mileage, even if towing often.

Let's say, a "towing gear" that equals 5th gear on your current transmission. You can easily accomplish that using your Autostick, but would have to live with that gear even if not towing.
 
#14 ·
In my mind, towing is not "normal driving conditions", and the autostick works very well. If towing in hilly areas, windy weather, etc just move it to "5". It will stay there until you change it to something else. Also, it won't "hold" 5th gear; it will downshift as needed, it just won't go above 5th gear. I will usually tow in standard "drive" unless I notice the van lugging, or shifting frequently due to weather/hills etc. If it is shifting often, I'll move it to 5. Takes like 5 seconds.
 
#15 ·
My "run about" vehicle is a V6 Kia Sorento. Its an auto and pulls the hills without down shifting. Guess they figured its gear ratios much better. For it, I simply put in "normal gear" and it goes - without lugging or needing for force its tranny into 5th gear. Like I said.... Wish the DGC didn't have "too tall" of gears. Especially its OD gear - where its always hunting for its lower gear. And if it had optional towing gears (like the old technology vehicles), I would have picked that option. In my world, I don't want to know "how to correct their mistake". I'm stating what their future build "should be". Especially when compared to other V6 vehicles driving the same road conditions - that don't constantly want to hunt for its lower gear...
 
#16 ·
My "run about" vehicle is a V6 Kia Sorento. Its an auto and pulls the hills without down shifting. Guess they figured its gear ratios much better. For it, I simply put in "normal gear" and it goes - without lugging or needing for force its tranny into 5th gear. Like I said.... Wish the DGC didn't have "too tall" of gears. Especially its OD gear - where its always hunting for its lower gear. And if it had optional towing gears (like the old technology vehicles), I would have picked that option. In my world, I don't want to know "how to correct their mistake". I'm stating what their future build "should be". Especially when compared to other V6 vehicles driving the same road conditions - that don't constantly want to hunt for its lower gear...
Your DGC weights 500+ lbs. more than your Kia Sorento (thinking about a 2 Gen).

Your Kia gear ratio on 6th. gear: 0.661
Your D.G.C. gear ratio on 6th. gear: 0.690

Your DGC have better gear-weight ratio than your Kia.
 
#17 ·
Remember to take into account the Kia has a smaller size engine. Drive both vehicles in normal 6th gear down hiway 7 (with lots of hills doing 45-55 mph) and watch the DGC's tranny lug and shift up/down - like it cannot find a sweet spot gear. And, compare both their Engine RPM needle positions as well. Simple proof to show its 6th gear is too tall. And, this is without pulling a trailer or being loaded down. Load the DGC down and it "starves" for its lower gear even more. And if wondering, this is normal driving condition.
 
#18 ·
This is only your preference. If your Kia doesn't need to downshift on hills its geared too short and wastes fuel. Transmissions are made to shift and taller gearing allows lower RPM and therefore better fuel economy. Not too long ago I did a 2k mile trip with my family and the van fully loaded, I enjoyed the average 25mpg despite downshifts on some occasions and average speed of around 70 or 75.
 
#19 ·
Yes. It my opinion based on what I've seen over and over again with my own DGC vehicle. The DGC transmission has too tall of upper gears and for normal driving conditions between 40-50 mph paved roads (not the fast hiway conditions of 60+). The transmission wants to downshift even on the simplest inclines. And, it downshifts even more when a few people (500+ lbs) or even pulling a simple loaded utility trailer. Being an Engineer and looking at 3.6l RPM and its torque curve charts, I can clearly see the factory default of 1,250 RPM for 6th gear at 40 mph - 50 mph range is too low of engine RPM. I also see "weird transmission behavior" posts on this forum and many others complaining either DGC also has "too tall" of gears or "too low" of RPM - for best engine torque output curve - for under 50 mph range.. If wondering, the start of the 3.6l torque curves starts around 1,500 (not 1,250) engine RPM. Thus, it lugs until it down shifts - to get its engine RPM into higher range / above 1,250. Better mpgs in the lower RPM range? Not if its always low RPM lugging and forced down shifting - to get it over the normal country paved road inclines.... Like I said... Above 1,500 rpm on fast hiways, its transmission seems to behave fine. But in the lower 40-50 mph range, my 2017 DGC is the most missed behaved "automatic" transmission I've ever owned.... Chrysler can do better.....
 
#20 ·
Since you're an engineer then I'm sure you understand that every engineering solution is a set of compromises. Chrysler obviously chose the gear ratios with highways speeds in mind, not some local roads with hills with an intention that it will satisfy the most use cases. Obviously they cannot satisfy everybody.

However, Chrysler was thoughtful enough to include a semi manual gear selector. They rightfully realized that a minivan is not a sports car, so their manual mode is really a gear lockout tool. I'm surprised that as an engineer you are not willing to use all the tools at your disposal.
Simply selecting the 5th gear, will lockout the 6th one and the transmission will automatically shift 1st through 5th gear as if it were a 5 speed, thus solving your problem. The other option would be to get another vehicle.
 
#21 ·
And then there are drivers like me who like the 'tall' gearing.

Here in Central Florida the landscape is mostly flat and I drive pretty conservatively, usually with econ mode on. I'm still amazed at how, at suburban traffic speeds, the engine can be running about 1000 to 1200 rpm and propel the van without any protest. Even in econ mode the trans will downshift like I would expect if necessary. There are some traffic conditions where I turn off the econ mode and it seems like then the rpms stay closer to 1500 in traffic rather than 1100 with econ on (at light throttle). On the highway the gearing is fine for where I drive, very rarely a downshift.

Some people have mentioned issues with the way their transmission shifts, maybe that's due to the programming version their van has. Is there a way for us to find what revision of code the PCM is running and then compare notes? My van has smooth, properly timed shifts 99% of the time. It's SO much better than the 2010 and 2012 Ford Escapes I used to drive.

The way I look at the gear ratios is that if I want more revs I can always shift down. Once I run out of gears to upshift to then that's it, I am stuck with excess revs.

Just my opinion!
 
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