[Jeepman]

Some updates today, May 21/2021. See edits to previous Post.

 

[Jeepman]

More readings from July:

Me: July 5th, 2021; 4:30 PM, ADT; 25C/77F; 95 mm maximum reading. "cold turkey".

Rick54301: July 6th; "Cold turkey" reading this morning: 92mm (3-5/8")

Me: Took a "roasted turkey" reading after a trip today. Reading was in the middle for the temperature.. Looks good.
July 6, 2021; 11:45 ADT; 19C/66F; 34 mm, 65.5C/150F IRT

Me: Checked yesterday after sitting for about 5 hours. July 6, 2021; 17:00 ADT; 19C/66F; 92 mm

Me:
Today, July 7, 2021; 13:30 ADT; 27C/81F; 95 mm after sitting for 14 hours.

A coupe things I have noticed:
1. Putting the dipstick down the tube, with the lettering on the yellow top piece facing me, which it should, seems to give a solid landing, more so than the other way around, which can sometimes go past the stop. The "crook" in the dipstick controls that, I guess.
2. The dipstick gives two "cold turkey" readings, a higher reading on one side which seems consistent, and is the one I use, and a lower reading on the other side by 5+ mm difference. The slant in the dipstick does that.
I will check this difference out for the hot readings, to see if it happens there.

I note that the universal dipstick, used for the 62TE, does not have a crook in it's blade. Interesting. Wonder what they say about taking readings with that dipstick? Seems to me it would be weird with one side of the dipstick rubbing against the tube. Maybe the plug on the end prevents that.

Me: Just measured mine, cold turkey, after a 13.5 hour shutdown. Today, July 8, 2021; 13:00 ADT; 23C/73F; 95 mm max after sitting for 13.5 hours. Other side read 90 mm

 

[Jeepman]

I see high transmission temperatures being tossed around from time to time, leading me to believe the electronic plug in devices being used to measure the temperatures, are wacko, or the Users aren't using them correctly. Then there's the Silver2016 Thread where even the Dealership can't get the measurements right (two times) apparently.

Overfillled ATF from the dealer.

I don't know about that Dealership. Two overfills (oil and transmission fluid) on a vehicle that I assume went through a multipoint certification inspection before the sale.. I hope you report them and their response. Chrysler doesn't deserve to have Dealerships like that handling their...

www.chryslerminivan.net

This does not apply to IR devices used externally. They are another story but a little less rocket science.

Some quotes regarding transmission temperatures from various sites:

• the ideal fluid temperature is under 175°F
• hot fluid is approximately 180°F (82°C), which is the normal operating temperature after the vehicle has been driven at least 15 miles (24 km)
• a good maximum operating temperature is 200°F (heavy going?)
• at 220°F, varnish forms.
• at 240°F, seals start to harden
• at 260°F, often transmission slipping as plates slip
• at 295°F, seals and clutches start to burn and fluid forms carbon, transmission failure might happen soon.
• with every 20°F drop in fluid temperature, your transmission’s lifespan can approximately double

Considerations, keeping in mind the above:

• "dipstick hacks", using 200°F as the normal operating temperature, are wrong. The 41TE used 180°F (without heavy duty cooler).
• heavy duty transmission cooling on the 5th Generations will keep operating temperatures lower by (my guess) 10 to 15°F.
• normal operating temperature is more likely around 170°F, maybe even lower, due to the extra cooling on later model 5th Generations.
• "dipstick hacks", using 200°F as the normal operating temperature, are wrong. The 41TE used 180°F (without heavy duty cooler). I repeat myself.

 

[Rick54301]

I'm thinking that one should be looking for 160F/70C to 180F/80C for a typical hot reading range and 28 mm to 48 mm for the measurement range. The 41TE had a hot range of 20 mm on its dipstick.

Great idea Jeepman!
Awesome job on this confusing issue! Should be a stickie!

 

[Jeepman]

Measured my transmission fluid level yesterday, cold turkey, after a 12+ hour shut down.

March 19, 2022; 1:00 PM local time; 4C/39F; 95 mm. WOW, that's consistent, no cold weather leaks or oil cooler line leaks, I'm thinking. Lowest reading during the winter has been 92 mm.

 

[Jeepman]

Measured my transmission fluid level today, cold turkey, after a 6 hour shut down.

April 6, 2022; 6:00 PM local time; 12C/54F; slightly above the 95 mm mark, say 96 mm. That's consistent. Lowest reading during the winter was 92 mm.

 

[Jeepman]

Measured my transmission fluid level today, cold turkey, after a 18 hour shut down.

May 3, 2022; 5:00 PM local time; 12C/54F; right on the 95 mm mark. That's consistent.

 

[Vandad123]

This whole process makes my head hurt…..
I changed my fluid and filter last weekend, I let it drain for about 4 hours, the fluid had stopped dripping/running out. I put in exactly the service fill of 5.2L or 5.5qts.
In my daily driving(15 miles, 30 minutes to work) I can’t get the fluid to much more than maybe 80-90 degrees, it’s just barely warm to the touch on the dipstick.
I checked it cold turkey this morning, the van has sat for 2 days and ambient temperature was about 70 degrees.
Measurement came in about 113/114mm
The trans shifts great and I think I am just being ocd about getting a perfect reading, as it looks like that is a losing battle.

 

[Jeepman]

That sounds like a good measurement. I look for between 90 mm and 115 mm "cold turkey". I think the higher readings are from the sump being full and the fluid going up the tube somewhat more aggressively due to temperature or more drain down.

Another piece of information from another Post.

Measuring transmission fluid level 62TE (2008 Town &amp...

Hi All, Having a transmission without a dipstick was not an option for me, these transmissions are very sensitive to the fluid level and not knowing the level for me was a big problem. I did the fluid and the filter change at the dealership to get some comfort but it turned to be more...

www.chryslerminivan.net

Here's a "cold turkey" measurement from that Thread.

With the van cold and off, the ATF measured 3/4" above the "SAFE" box on the engine oil dipstick.

Sounds about what I get, will have to check in mm from the end.

PS: 60 mm to top of cross hatched area on my dipstick plus 19 mm (3/4") = 79 mm. That's a too low reading compared to mine and many others. Must have been an inch and 3/4" for a total of 104 mm.

 

[Gummy Bear Wagon]

Some quotes regarding transmission temperatures from various sites:

• the ideal fluid temperature is under 175°F
• hot fluid is approximately 180°F (82°C), which is the normal operating temperature after the vehicle has been driven at least 15 miles (24 km)
• a good maximum operating temperature is 200°F (heavy going?)
• at 220°F, varnish forms.
• at 240°F, seals start to harden
• at 260°F, often transmission slipping as plates slip
• at 295°F, seals and clutches start to burn and fluid forms carbon, transmission failure might happen soon.
• with every 20°F drop in fluid temperature, your transmission’s lifespan can approximately double

Considerations, keeping in mind the above:

• "dipstick hacks", using 200°F as the normal operating temperature, are wrong. The 41TE used 180°F (without heavy duty cooler).
• heavy duty transmission cooling on the 5th Generations will keep operating temperatures lower by (my guess) 10 to 15°F.
• normal operating temperature is more likely around 170°F, maybe even lower, due to the extra cooling on later model 5th Generations.
• "dipstick hacks", using 200°F as the normal operating temperature, are wrong. The 41TE used 180°F (without heavy duty cooler). I repeat myself.

I appreciate the information here.
My van originally had the heavy-duty cooling, though I don't know what radiator the last owner installed. I added the Derale auxiliary transmission fluid filter with the temperature gauge. The transmission temperature stays at 160 degrees F on the interstate when we are not towing. I have seen 185 degrees towing uphill on the interstate.
Here is a scary story. Yesterday we took the car to a drive-through safari. I spent a lot of time with the car stopped and in gear, a situation that turns all the torque convert load into heat (no energy is converted to mechanical movement) and there is no airflow for cooling. I noticed temperatures at the cooler reaching over 240 degrees F. It would cool down 20-30 degrees when we started roll at 5 MPH and I would put it into park when I could.

 

[Jeepman]

Yes, that is scary. Anything over 220 - 225 is scary.

Transmission Temperature Gauge: A Brief Guide - Transmission Repair Guy

With a transmission temperature gauge, you'll be able to keep track of the transmission's operating temperature, which can help to prevent overheating.

transmissionrepairguy.com

 

[Cciman]

What was the coolant and oil temps when this was happening in the trans? Are your fans working?

 

[Gummy Bear Wagon]

I need to start a thread for this. It would be good to get some people to track it that get stuck in traffic.

Coolant temps were fine. Fans work but like I said, I do not know which radiator was installed and created a mismatch the left a gap the whole way around the fan shroud. The AC was running with all the windows down.
I have noticed some funny numbers with the transmission temps. I did some checking with the ECU GeorgeF's Excellent OBD Fusion Custom Transmission Level Gauge | The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums , my temp gauge, and an infrared thermometer.

Problem #1. My IR thermometer was giving bad numbers. At first it was giving numbers 20 degrees lower than actual. Towards the end of testing it was showing 7 degrees lower than actual. If you add the difference to the measurements, the readings make more sense except for the 200 degree gauge reading.
Problem #2. The fans push lots of hot air into the engine bay heating the oil pan and ATF filter and make readings for the transmission pan and the oil filter higher. I may have taken my first set of readings when the fans were running.
Problem #3. I had concerns about the transmission filter housing supplying a good ground and maybe the steering column because these gauges are so sensitive to voltage. After I sprayed the engine down, the gauge was jumping around, so I think I need to address the concern and add a grounding strap.
Problem #4. I was not aware of the temp differences between the ECU reading and the sensor on the filter. I should have checked these when I was hitting 240 but I really do not want to drive my temps up that high on purpose.

Parked in neutral after a drive
ECU----- ATF pan IR ----- Gauge---- IR ---------- Air temp ----- IR
154 ----- 131 ----------------- 175 ----- 148 ---------- 72 ----- 53
Parked in Gear:
ECU ----- ATF pan IR ----- Gauge ----- IR ---------- Air temp ----- IR
157 ----- 150 ----------------- 200 ----- 176 ---------- 72 ----- 64
Parked in neutral and cooling back down:
ECU ----- ATF pan IR ----- Gauge----- IR ---------- Air temp ----- IR
165 ----- 152----- ------------180 ----- 159 ---------- 72 ----- 65

The fluid temps do rise with being parked in gear. It is hard to interpret the data with lousy IR numbers. It would also be good to know if the ATF oil cooler is fed directly from the torque converter (main source of heat), what temp its thermostat operates on, and where does the ECU get its temperature from since it showed a steady rise when the pan and the ATF filter were both cooling down. I am going to start a thread for this sometime this week.

 

[YotoWerks]

My new Scan Gauge can read trans temp and I figured I would share what I observed, it seems that the trans gets up to 100-105 when the engine reaches fully operational temp, but then it takes it a long time to reach 140F and that appears to be its steady state when cruising at 70mph. I noticed uphills or accelarations will get it to increase temp to around 150F but then it cools down to 140F so use the 140F as a constant temp when you have driven 30min or more from start up.

Short drive, when the engine shows warmed up the trans is around 120F.

 

[Jeepman]

I'm thinking 170F would be a more realistic temperature according to various sources I have seen, 180F is the operating temperature but the transmission tends to hang below that.

Any reference to 200F in the transmission fluid measurement hacks should be treated with a grain of salt.

140F sounds real low. The transmission cooler is good but I don't believe it's that good. What are others finding?

 

[milanz0102]

I'm thinking 170F would be a more realistic temperature according to various sources I have seen, 180F is the operating temperature but the transmission tends to hang below that.

Any reference to 200F in the transmission fluid measurement hacks should be treated with a grain of salt.

140F sounds real low. The transmission cooler is good but I don't believe it's that good. What are others finding?

I still have my 2010 4.0 GC and occasionally use the Torque pro app to monitor the transmission temperature and always show 140F during highway driving in Canada and USA no matter the season. In the Summers of 2011,2012,2013 and 2014 I drove the van on 2,000km trips from Toronto to Reddington Beach, FL and continuously monitored the transmission temperature during the 20+ hour drive. Constantly 140F except during the mountainous terrain of VA/WV where it was just touching 150F barely. Even the shorter trips between St Petersburg and Orlando in the Florida Summer heat was still 140F.
No towing but just a family of 4 with a fair amount of luggage. Oh, and highway speeds were 120km/h or about 75 mph.

 

[Jeepman]

This is all very interesting. The following video, from MotorCity Mechanic, starting midway in the video, talks about cold reading (75F) and operating reading (180F). That seems okay to me as the normal operating temperature for most electronic transmissions is around 180F. I would accept a reading of 170F as being realistic based on various experiences I have come across.

140F? Well, something doesn't add up. Is the scan tool measuring the temperature after the cooler maybe? That's still a big difference. Maybe the cooler is just doing a super job of cooling.

What temperatures are you getting when doing a transmission fluid level check?.

The dipstick range at 140F is: 21 mm to 37 mm

The dipstick range at 180F is: 34 mm to 48 mm

An overlap of 3 mm. WOW!

 

[milanz0102]

This is all very interesting. The following video, from MotorCity Mechanic, starting midway in the video, talks about cold reading (75F) and operating reading (180F). That seems okay to me as the normal operating temperature for most electronic transmissions is around 180F. I would accept a reading of 170F as being realistic based on various experiences I have come across.

140F? Well, something doesn't add up. Is the scan tool measuring the temperature after the cooler maybe? That's still a big difference. Maybe the cooler is just doing a super job of cooling.

What temperadoing a transmission fluid level check?.

I have normally checked the fluid after a 50km drive back from work and the temp is 140F. I don't know where the temp sensor is located in the transmission but I believe the PID reading the sensor is correct since all the temperatures read the same first thing in the morning with the van sitting outside overnight. Example, the torque pro app will show say 70F (+/-) on the ambient air temp, coolant temp and transmission temperature first thing in the morning and all the temperatures match the thermometer in the shade in the backyard.
I've used the same torque pro app on my previous 2002 3.8l Impala and those normal operating temps were 215F and 190F after I installed a small Derale transmission cooler.
Sort of makes sense since the factory Impala had a transmission cooler combined at the side of the radiator which was generally at 212F.
The 4.0 GC has a fairly large factory installed cooler in front of the radiator. I bought the van new in 2010 and I remember declining the heavy duty tow package so I'm surprised it has the large transmission cooler.
Never had an issue with the transmission except..... complete transmission replacement at 20,000km due to compounder bearing failure - a tsb and known issue for the vans manufactured first six months of 2010. Currently has 250,000 km on new transmission.

 

[Jeepman]

The transmission temperature tends to mimic the coolant temperature, so they say. I would guess that a coolant temperature of 200F would have a corresponding ATF temperature of around 180F.

It's interesting how the transmission operation is influenced by the engine temperatures plus other factors.

The point here is that the temperature of the ATF as well as the engine coolant can have a major effect on how your transmission operates. So too can the inputs from the throttle position sensor, crankshaft position sensor, MAP sensor and other engine sensors.

If the indicated engine coolant temperature stays too low too long (which may be due to an open thermostat, low coolant level or faulty coolant sensor), the TCM may go into a cold mode and prevent the torque converter clutch from locking up.

An interesting explanation of how the 41TE operates follows. The 62TE is based on the 41TE and would have similarities.

Jeep Grand Cherokee Transmission Shifting Problem

How about others letting us know of their transmission fluid temperature monitoring.

 

[2019GTlife]

This is kinda related,,,

I do not have a way to check trans temp but I have been watching my engine oil temp since I got my van. To my surprise the oil stays about 10 degrees cooler than the coolant, at best. I drive about 45 miles to work and with the outside temps in the high 40’s to low 60’s the engine oil temp barely reaches 180 degrees buy the time I get to work. Now when the outside temperature is in the 70’s to low 80’s the oil temperature will get into the 180’s in about 20 or so miles. And during all this the coolant stays 194 to 205 degrees.

So I would think that if the van has a HD trans cooler it is possible for the trans fluid temps to run that low. Sure wish I had a trans fluid temp gauge,,,


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