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The brake pedal on my wife's 2011 town and country intermittently goes to the floor when braking!!! This problem became more frequent after a local shop replaced the left rear caliper. I replaced the master cylinder and used a pressurized bleeder to bleed the system and thought I had it fixed till the problem returned again about a month ago. I took the car for a test drive exercising the brakes under rough road conditions and activating the anti lock function at least a half a dozen times. The brakes worked perfectly. Brake fluid level is normal, no obvious leaks, all pads have very little wear.
Is there some extra step required when bleeding that is involves manually activating the anti lock brake module?

I bit the bullet and took the vehicle to the dealer. The Dealer couldn't find anything wrong but recommend that they change the master cylinder, which I replaced about 6 months ago, and the two rear brake calipers because they were known to give trouble. I said no thanks. I can throw parts at it a lot cheaper than them. So I ordered a shop manual cd from Faxon for $194 and an ABS modulator from mymoparparts.com for $229. If anyone has tips or cautions about changing the modulator please share.

Finally got the shop manual from Faxon. (When they say two weeks to deliver they mean it.)

So the shop manual installation procedure states the following:

"The base brake's hydraulic system must be bled anytime air enters the hydraulic system. The ABS must always be bled anytime it is suspected that the HCU (Hydraulic Control Unit) has ingested air.
Brake systems with ABS must be bled as two independent braking systems. The non-ABS portion of the brake system with ABS is to be bled the same as any non-ABS system.
The ABS portion of the brake system must be bled separately. Use the following procedure to properly bleed the brake hydraulic system including the ABS."

Included in the instructions is this step:

"Using the scan tool, select ECU VIEW, followed by ABS MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS to access bleeding. Follow the instructions displayed. When finished, disconnect the scan tool and proceed."

Two questions, 1. Will any of the non-OEM scan tools be able to read these instruction and perform required operations? and 2. Can someone share what those instructions are with the intent to perform the bleed procedure without the scanner?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
 

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The brake pedal on my wife's 2011 town and country intermittently goes to the floor when braking!!! This problem became more frequent after a local shop replaced the left rear caliper. I replaced the master cylinder and used a pressurized bleeder to bleed the system and thought I had it fixed till the problem returned again about a month ago. I took the car for a test drive exercising the brakes under rough road conditions and activating the anti lock function at least a half a dozen times. The brakes worked perfectly. Brake fluid level is normal, no obvious leaks, all pads have very little wear.
Is there some extra step required when bleeding that is involves manually activating the anti lock brake module?

I bit the bullet and took the vehicle to the dealer. The Dealer couldn't find anything wrong but recommend that they change the master cylinder, which I replaced about 6 months ago, and the two rear brake calipers because they were known to give trouble. I said no thanks. I can throw parts at it a lot cheaper than them. So I ordered a shop manual cd from Faxon for $194 and an ABS modulator from mymoparparts.com for $229. If anyone has tips or cautions about changing the modulator please share.

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
I wouldn't mess with the ABS modulator, doubt it cause those symptoms, master cylinder will.

If you replaced M.C. already, chances are you have air in the system and need to be purged as per instructions.

Throwing parts like that may become more expensive than allowing a professional to diagnose and complete the job. Dealer didn't recommended to replace ABS modulator, so you already trashed $229.00 right there.

If correctly bleeding the system doesn't help, I would replace M.C. again.
 

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The brake pedal on my wife's 2011 town and country intermittently goes to the floor when braking!!! This problem became more frequent after a local shop replaced the left rear caliper. I replaced the master cylinder and used a pressurized bleeder to bleed the system and thought I had it fixed till the problem returned again about a month ago. I took the car for a test drive exercising the brakes under rough road conditions and activating the anti lock function at least a half a dozen times. The brakes worked perfectly. Brake fluid level is normal, no obvious leaks, all pads have very little wear.
Is there some extra step required when bleeding that is involves manually activating the anti lock brake module?

I bit the bullet and took the vehicle to the dealer. The Dealer couldn't find anything wrong but recommend that they change the master cylinder, which I replaced about 6 months ago, and the two rear brake calipers because they were known to give trouble. I said no thanks. I can throw parts at it a lot cheaper than them. So I ordered a shop manual cd from Faxon for $194 and an ABS modulator from mymoparparts.com for $229. If anyone has tips or cautions about changing the modulator please share.

Finally got the shop manual from Faxon. (When they say two weeks to deliver they mean it.)

So the shop manual installation procedure states the following:

"The base brake's hydraulic system must be bled anytime air enters the hydraulic system. The ABS must always be bled anytime it is suspected that the HCU (Hydraulic Control Unit) has ingested air.
Brake systems with ABS must be bled as two independent braking systems. The non-ABS portion of the brake system with ABS is to be bled the same as any non-ABS system.
The ABS portion of the brake system must be bled separately. Use the following procedure to properly bleed the brake hydraulic system including the ABS."

Included in the instructions is this step:

"Using the scan tool, select ECU VIEW, followed by ABS MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS to access bleeding. Follow the instructions displayed. When finished, disconnect the scan tool and proceed."

Two questions, 1. Will any of the non-OEM scan tools be able to read these instruction and perform required operations? and 2. Can someone share what those instructions are with the intent to perform the bleed procedure without the scanner?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
First, Welcome to the site.
1, Yes some non OEM scan tools have the ABS bleed ability.

2, Yes it can be done without a scan tool but it will take time.
You'll have to install the ABS unit and bleed the brakes until you get a good pedal then drive somewhere where you can get each wheel to do an ABS stop. The pedal will likely drop low or to the floor as the air comes out of the ABS circuits. You'll have to bleed it out and drive it again and repeat until the pedal is good after all four wheels have done an ABS stop.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All,
Thanks for the answers to my questions and recommendations!
My brake experience has been limited to mostly pre-ABS, 1990's imports and 1970 - 1990 domestic, so the details of these type of
systems are new to me.
I'm replacing seat belts on our back up vehicle so it will be next week end before I can work on the van.
Again thanks for you input and I will post what I find.
 

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What that has to do with his problem?

OP had problems (low pedal) after changing rear caliper.

I just said maybe he should read it. Information is king.
 
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Discussion Starter #8
Finally got the hydraulic modulator module replaced and successfully bled three out of four wheel calipers but the right rear would not flow any fluid. Checked the bleeder and it was not plugged. Next step is to put the tires back on and drive so as to activate the abs on each wheel per previous 1994 Sports post.
What brand and model non-OEM scanner will read and activate the ABS module?
Appreciate your comments and suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
First, Welcome to the site.
1, Yes some non OEM scan tools have the ABS bleed ability.

2, Yes it can be done without a scan tool but it will take time.
You'll have to install the ABS unit and bleed the brakes until you get a good pedal then drive somewhere where you can get each wheel to do an ABS stop. The pedal will likely drop low or to the floor as the air comes out of the ABS circuits. You'll have to bleed it out and drive it again and repeat until the pedal is good after all four wheels have done an ABS stop.
1994 Sport,
Installed the ABS unit, bled the brakes and got a good pedal. Drove and applied brakes in wet road condition which caused ABS system to activate. Can not say for sure that ABS was activated for all wheels. Pedal is firm. Checked right rear caliper to see if it started working and found that it is not. Loosened joint and flex lead to caliper and applied brakes, no fluid leaked out. Inspected line between ABS module and found no obvious problems. It appears the ABS is not allowing fluid to flow to the right rear. Any ideas what could be causing this? Suggestions for a reasonably priced scanned that will talk to ABS module?
 

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The brake pedal on my wife's 2011 town and country intermittently goes to the floor when braking!!! This problem became more frequent after a local shop replaced the left rear caliper. I replaced the master cylinder and used a pressurized bleeder to bleed the system and thought I had it fixed till the problem returned again about a month ago. I took the car for a test drive exercising the brakes under rough road conditions and activating the anti lock function at least a half a dozen times. The brakes worked perfectly. Brake fluid level is normal, no obvious leaks, all pads have very little wear.
Is there some extra step required when bleeding that is involves manually activating the anti lock brake module?

I bit the bullet and took the vehicle to the dealer. The Dealer couldn't find anything wrong but recommend that they change the master cylinder, which I replaced about 6 months ago, and the two rear brake calipers because they were known to give trouble. I said no thanks. I can throw parts at it a lot cheaper than them. So I ordered a shop manual cd from Faxon for $194 and an ABS modulator from mymoparparts.com for $229. If anyone has tips or cautions about changing the modulator please share.

Finally got the shop manual from Faxon. (When they say two weeks to deliver they mean it.)

So the shop manual installation procedure states the following:

"The base brake's hydraulic system must be bled anytime air enters the hydraulic system. The ABS must always be bled anytime it is suspected that the HCU (Hydraulic Control Unit) has ingested air.
Brake systems with ABS must be bled as two independent braking systems. The non-ABS portion of the brake system with ABS is to be bled the same as any non-ABS system.
The ABS portion of the brake system must be bled separately. Use the following procedure to properly bleed the brake hydraulic system including the ABS."

Included in the instructions is this step:

"Using the scan tool, select ECU VIEW, followed by ABS MISCELLANEOUS FUNCTIONS to access bleeding. Follow the instructions displayed. When finished, disconnect the scan tool and proceed."

Two questions, 1. Will any of the non-OEM scan tools be able to read these instruction and perform required operations? and 2. Can someone share what those instructions are with the intent to perform the bleed procedure without the scanner?

Any thoughts or comments would be appreciated.
intermittent brake failure persisted in our 2010 for nearly 7 years and 77,000 miles. Ours went to complete catastrophic brake failure on more than one occasion, it was just terrifying and my wife came home in tears after running a red light with out kids in the car due to no brakes. The spongey pedal happened to us repeatedly, complete pedal to the floor brake failure happened to us more than once.

Only the dealer worked on this with the assistance of STAR TECH

Good luck with the repair, stay safe.
 

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intermittent brake failure persisted in our 2010 for nearly 7 years and 77,000 miles. Ours went to complete catastrophic brake failure on more than one occasion, it was just terrifying and my wife came home in tears after running a red light with out kids in the car due to no brakes. The spongey pedal happened to us repeatedly, complete pedal to the floor brake failure happened to us more than once.

Only the dealer worked on this with the assistance of STAR TECH

Good luck with the repair, stay safe.
“With our kids in the car” with out is a typo.

Repair on this issue was attempted literally until the day we gave the car back to the dealership.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Koooop, thanks for encouraging words. My wife is about to issue me an ultimatum like "fix it or burn it." I'm hoping that following the shop manual / scanner brake bleed procedure will fix it.... stay tuned. :)
 

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Koooop, thanks for encouraging words. My wife is about to issue me an ultimatum like "fix it or burn it." I'm hoping that following the shop manual / scanner brake bleed procedure will fix it.... stay tuned. :)
I would be willing to share the last repair notes With you by PM If you’d like. I have a laundry list of attempted brake repairs from the past almost 7 years (that sound like yours).

After my last trip to the dealer with the brakes completely failing as I pulled on the dealership lot I issued the ultimatum. The car is gone...

Don’t hold your breath on the brake bleed (along with master cylinders etc...) been there done that. Our brake failure was intermittent so all of the repairs would seem to work but would just recur at a later date.
 

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Short update: Reinstalled the old ABS hydraulic modulator which fixed the no flow to the right rear caliper problem. Performed standard bleed of brake systems and ABS bleed using scanner (Autel MS906). System appears to be working fine now. I suspect the new modulator was damaged in shipping. It was not adequately padded so that one of the support studs had poked thru the shipping box. I should not have accepted the delivery. It is possible that my original problem was inadequate bleeding of the system. This last time I pushed between one and two quarts of fluid thru the system. By the way the Motive Power Bleeder works great. Well worth the money. And the Autel MaxiSys MS906 scanner is really cool. Now I just need to fix all my family’s and friends’ cars to justify the cost. ;)
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions.
Hope my experiences can help someone troubleshooting similar problems.
Reluctant Mechanic
 

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Since the problem is intermittent how do you know it’s fixed?

I really hope you got it, good luck.
 
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