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fix it if you can
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Discussion Starter #1
Volkswagen recalls 200,000 cars in Brazil
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8511199.stm

BBC said:
The company wants to determine whether rear wheel bearings are sufficiently greased on the Novo Gol and Novo Voyage models made before July 2009.

VW says there is a possibility that a lack of lubrication could cause wheels to lock. In extreme cases they could loosen and even fall off.

The vehicles were made in Brazil for the local market, VW's third-largest.
 

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Well, to be fair, Acura/Honda should be credited with getting the ball rolling this year. On the 4th day of 2010, they recalled some Acuras for air bag issues and some Hondas for electrical wiring. On the 8th of January, Hyundai recalled vehicles for air bag problems. On the 11th of January, Chrysler recalled a number of vehicles for brake system clips missing, discussed here earlier. Toyota's recall happened on the 21st.
 

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Toyota's (real, not floormat :rolleyes:) recall SHOULD have happened in October.
 

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I guess by the same measure, you could say that Chrysler SHOULD have recalled the 5th minivans by now, for unintended acceleration, due to all the complaints filed at NHTSA.
 

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I'm thinking in many cases, a throttle blip by the computer may be mistaken for unintended acceleration. My van and our Durango both do this. I wouldn't be surprised if my sisters mustang did it, but I never drive it.

Both vehicles have been known to blip the throttle (or maybe just add some fuel to raise the engine speed) at downshifts into 1st at a moderately low magnitude of acceleration while braking. The engine revs will reach up to 1100 on that shift and will momentarily feel like the car is accelerating forward, when in reality it is just no longer slowing down. Nothing ever that the brakes couldn't override.

The durango does have a failing TPS as sometimes at lights it will rev the engine for no reason. Catches you off guard if you don;t have the brakes pushed hard enough and the car suddenly creeps on you. I would consider a throttle blip normal in any vehicle depending on the computer programming.
 

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From the NHTSA website (info posted earlier by jgiurleo), these are most definitely not "throttle blips". If we're going to demonize Toyota for slow responses to complaints and/or faulty programming/engineering, then we must hold Chrysler to the same standard.

Each of these complaints is searchable on NHTSA's website. The dates of complaints are:

10293479: November 24, 2009
10253408: December 31, 2008
10238112: August 7, 2008
10216935: February 2, 2008
10300245: January 19, 2010
10274058: May 16, 2009
10238130: July 28, 2008

Make: DODGE Model: GRAND CARAVAN Year: 2009 Complaint Number: 10293479 Summary: WHILE I WAS GETTING ON THE HIGHWAY GAS PEDAL GOT STUCK AND ACCELERATED. IT WOULD NOT DES ENGAGE EVEN WHILE APPLYING THE BRAKE. *TR
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Make: DODGE Model: GRAND CARAVAN Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10253408 Summary: WHILE AT A STOPLIGHT IN SMALL CITY TRAFFIC IN CONNELLSVILLE, PA, ON 31DEC2008, I DECIDED TO SEE HOW MY ENTERPRISE RENTAL VEHICLE, A 2008 DODGE GRANDCARAVAN, WOULD ACCELERATE. PULLING AWAY FROM THE LIGHT, I FLOORED THE PEDAL AND GOT UP TO ABOUT 45 MPH, THEN LET UP. NO REDUCTION IN ACCELERATION OCCURRED. I TOOK MY FOOT FROM THE PEDAL AND THE ENGINE CONTINUED TO RACE. I WAS STILL GATHERING SPEED, SO I PUSHED THE BRAKE PEDAL WITH LOTS OF GUSTO. THE VEHICLE'S BRAKES THEN WORKED AGAINST THE ENGINE FOR PERHAPS A QUARTER MILE. THE VEHICLE SPEED WAS REDUCED TO ABOUT 20 MPH, BUT WHEN I DID A TEST LIFT OFF THE BRAKE PEDAL, THE VEHICLE ONCE AGAIN STARTED TO ACCELERATE. BACK ON THE BRAKE, I SWERVED INTO A LARGE, EMPTY PARKING LOT. I TRIED NEUTRAL AND THE ENGINE THEN TOOK OFF WILDLY, SO I SWITCHED OFF THE IGNITION. PAUSING A FEW SECONDS, I RESTARTED THE VEHICLE AND FOUND EVERYTHING BACK TO NORMAL, EXCEPT THAT THE ESP WARNING LIGHT THAT HAD COME ON WITH MY INTENSE BRAKING WAS STILL ON. I DROVE A FEW MINUTES AND THE LIGHT WENT OFF. I THEN RETURNED THE VEHICLE TO THE ENTERPRISE AGENCY, WHERE I SHARED MY EXPERIENCE WITH THE MANAGER. *TR
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Make: DODGE Model: GRAND CARAVAN Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10238112 Summary: DRIVING ON I96 NEAR COOPERSVILLE MICHIGAN, WITH MY CRUISE CONTROL ON. A SLOWER VEHICLE WAS AHEAD OF ME SO I HAD TO BRAKE TO STOP THE CRUISE FUNCTION. IT DID NOT DIS-ENGAGE. I HAD TO PULL OUT IN FRONT OF A FASTER VEHICLE TO MY LEFT, IN THE FAST LANE AND ACCELERATE. AT THAT POINT IT FULLY ACCELERATED. COULD NOT STOP VEHICLE FROM ACCELERATING. HEAVILY APPLYING THE BRAKE DID NOT DIS-ENGAGE THE CRUISE CONTROL OR STOP THE THROTTLE FROM BEING FULLY ENGAGED. PULLED VEHICLE TO SHOULDER, 7,000 RPM. TURN OFF KEY TO SHUT OFF. POLICE IN COOPERSVILLE WITNESSED THE INCIDENT. DEALER CURRENTLY HAS VEHICLE IN ONTARIO WAITING FOR PARTS TO CORRECT PROBLEM. *TR
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Make: DODGE Model: GRAND CARAVAN Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10216935 Summary: CAR WAS PUT INTO DRIVE, AS I STARTED TO DRIVE, I NOTICED THE ENGINE RACING. I LOOKED DOWN AND SAW IT WAS IN FIRST GEAR. I SHIFTED TO NEUTRAL AND THE ENGINE RACED, I ENGAGED THE TRANSMISSION AGAIN AND IT SLAMMED INTO DRIVE AND SPUN THE WHEELS FOR A MOMENT THEN DROVE NORMALLY. IT HAS BEEN ACCELERATING WHILE IN DRIVE ON ITS OWN ALSO. *TR
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Make: CHRYSLER Model: TOWN&COUNTRY Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10300245 Summary: TL*THE CONTACT OWNS A 2008 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY. WHILE DRIVING 60 MPH THE ACCELERATED PEDAL WAS STUCK. AS THE VEHICLE ACCELERATED HE HAD TO USE HIS LEFT FOOT TO RELEASE THE ACCELERATOR PEDAL FROM THE STUCK POSITION TO SLOW THE VEHICLE DOWN.. THE DEALER OR THE MANUFACTURER HAVE NOT BEEN CONTACTED. THE FAILURE MILEAGE WAS 53,000.
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Make: CHRYSLER Model: TOWN&COUNTRY Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10274058 Summary: 2008 TOWN AND COUNTRY TOURING. DRIVING WITH CRUISE CONTROL GOING ABOUT 65MPH AND ALL OF SUDDEN THE ENGINE ACCELERATED AND THEN SLOWED DOWN AND I HAD TO TURN OFF THE CRUISE CONTROL AND HIT THE GAS PEDDLE FINALLY KICKED IN NORMALLY. GOOD THING I WAS NOT IN CITY DRIVING GOING 50MPH AND HAD THIS HAPPEN. *TR
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Make: CHRYSLER Model: TOWN&COUNTRY Year: 2008 Complaint Number: 10238130 Summary: I PURCHASED A 2008 CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY VAN, I WAS TOLD IT WAS A TRADE IN FROM AN OLD COUPLE THAT NEEDED A 4 WHEEL DRIVE, I LATER FOUND OUT IT WAS A FORMER RENTAL. THE PROBLEM IS THAT WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF THE GAS THE VEHICLE DOES NOT SLOW DOWN, IT CONTINUES TO GO WHAT EVER SPEED YOU WERE TRAVELING, I HAVE TO DRIVE WITH MY FOOT ON THE BRAKE TO GO THE SPEED LIMIT. I HAVE HAD IT BACK TO THE DEALER AND THEY TELL ME THAT THERE IS NOTHING FROM CHRYSLER FOR THIS PROBLEM, I FEEL THIS IS A MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE AND I AM AFRAID TO HAVE MY WIFE AND GRANDCHILDREN IN THE VEHICLE. WE ARE GOING TO GET A SPEEDING TICKET BECAUSE YOU CAN'T MAKE THE VEHICLE GO THE SPEED LIMIT WITHOUT HAVING YOUR FOOT ON THE BRAKE. OR WE ARE GOING TO WIND UP REAR ENDING SOMEONE, BECAUSE YOU EXPECT THE VEHICLE TO SLOW DOWN WHEN YOU TAKE YOUR FOOT OFF OF THE GAS, BUT IT DOESN'T. THE PROBLEM IS CONSISTENT OVER 40 MILES PER HOUR. AND IT HAS BEEN DUPLICATED BY THE DEALER. THE VEHICLE IN QUESTION IS A 2008, CHRYSLER TOWN AND COUNTRY VAN WITH A 3.3L ENGINE. *TR
 

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Man. Mopar. Minivan.
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Though Toyota has stolen most of the spotlight as of late, we all have to remember that PLENTY of other car manufacturers have had equally awful/embarrassing recalls before Toyota, and will continue to do so, afterward.
 

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Thats unfortunate for Chrysler too. It seems that all but 1 were 2008's. Maybe an introduction year problem?

All of these problems make me glad I have vehicles with cables. Nothing unexpected from those.
 

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fix it if you can
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Discussion Starter #10
It's a bit of a stretch to compare 7 (say even 30) complaints pertaining to single model line to that of 8(?) models with hundreds of complaints dating back to 2005... (need not mention several fatalities)
But you're right, Chrysler flunked this one too.. (though it has not yet taken them 5 years/8+ million cars to admit..) seems no car manufacturer is immune these days...

here's a scary thought:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8510228.stm
 

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My how times change.The 1988 K cars had zero recalls.
This is improvement?
I will take older vehicles anyday.
I would hate to drop 30 large on a new rig and find out for the entire time of ownership of all the things that they made or assembled wrongly.
Give me a $200 job instead,and I will take my time going thru it rehabbing the worn bits.If anyone is to blame for poor assembly,it would be me,and I wont charge myself tens of thousands of dollars for doing a poor repair job.

The latest Toyota recall is for certain 2010 Tacomas for the front prop shafts grenading.
Oh what a feelin.....Toyota!!!
 

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Another recall with Toyota? This is getting out of hand.
 

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It's a bit of a stretch to compare 7 (say even 30) complaints pertaining to single model line to that of 8(?) models with hundreds of complaints dating back to 2005... (need not mention several fatalities)
But you're right, Chrysler flunked this one too.. (though it has not yet taken them 5 years/8+ million cars to admit..) seems no car manufacturer is immune these days...
It is funny, how we collectively have a field day with Toyota's unintended acceleration recall, and when our own brand has complaints about that, we all of a sudden grow silent.

It shouldn't matter how many complaints there are (and you acknowledged that). Whether it's 1 or 1000, if we're going to be safety advocates and hold the manufacture to a hard line, we can't have different standards for the brand we love vs. the brand we love to hate.
 

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My van has the air bag recall that I know of, but it has not needed it yet.

Still seems shady that seemingly all of toyota's models are popping up with issues. Now not even with the gas pedals.
 

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fix it if you can
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Discussion Starter #16
It shouldn't matter how many complaints there are (and you acknowledged that). Whether it's 1 or 1000, if we're going to be safety advocates and hold the manufacture to a hard line, we can't have different standards for the brand we love vs. the brand we love to hate.
Personally, I'd be happy to see all critical control systems - brakes, steering and throttles plus components (many of these can be "standardized"/made to be universal) that effect these systems (in modern cars) undergo independent testing and certification before they're put in consumer's hands.. sure it will cost money but, in my view, it'll be money well spent (considering history, esp recent)
With all the outsourcing, it appears, the manufacturers are unable to keep up with comprehensive product testing...

RE: # of complaints -
it has to be a statistically significant number (and 5+ per one model & year is).. otherwise it could simply be a result of a bad repair/misuse/neglect...
 

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Too many computers, too many software glitches ........

I've worked with computers on a daily basis, for years. However, I cannot see the advantage of 23+ computers in a vehicle. YES, I said 23+. I do not recall (sorry about that) what new vehicle I was reading about, but they said there were over 23 computers in the vehicle. Each computer requires software to run the process that the specific computer/controller is tasked to do.

In my early days of computers/servers, you had a couple large multi-tasking systems. You could run numerous programs (hundreds) without any problem on each cluster, there was full redundancy built in everywhere. They could run for years without any failures or need to reboot. A single program could be stopped or started without bringing the whole thing down. :thumb:

However, today, like with Microsoft Servers, you need one dedicated computer/server for each program (100 programs, 100 servers) to run on, taking up racks and racks of space and required to be rebooted every 30 - 45 days or they lock-up and crash. :jpshakehe

Now they're doing that to cars, and for some reason, cannot understand why we aren't happy with them. We should be willing to coast to the side of the road, start it back up and continue our merry way, without a second thought, just like we now do with our work and home computers. :ask_wsign

http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.asp
:lol:
Just wait for the virus' and worms to invade the auto industry ...... :Wow1:
 

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fix it if you can
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Discussion Starter #18
There's one thing I don't understand..
Is this a new "normal" to publicly disclose the name of the supplier in a recall announcement? (esp. when they state no facts or basis for how they arrived at the conclusion that this specific company is at fault)
(first CTS, now Dana..)
used to be that auto manufacturers would do anything and everything to avoid naming names or pointing fingers... (and an announcement would be made by the party at fault..)
 

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In the old days, if it was your fault, you willingly fell on your sword (and in the Asian countries, it was literal).
However, with today's politics, you've got to find someone to throw under the bus. It can never be your fault.
 

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There's one thing I don't understand..
Is this a new "normal" to publicly disclose the name of the supplier in a recall announcement? (esp. when they state no facts or basis for how they arrived at the conclusion that this specific company is at fault)
(first CTS, now Dana..)
used to be that auto manufacturers would do anything and everything to avoid naming names or pointing fingers... (and an announcement would be made by the party at fault..)
I think it's called desperation.
 
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