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3rd Gen Plebeian
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Discussion Starter #1
I just installed 4th gen spindles and brakes on my 3rd gen. Currently, I am using the rotors, pads, and calipers I pulled out of the junkyard having only rebuilt the calipers, but I plan on replacing these components soon.

Ive been looking around to see if anything else might swap on, and I see that the Pacifica has a similar front end to the 4th gen minivan. I also see that the 2001-2010 Ford Explorer uses the same Caliper Bracket as the Pacifica, and nearly an identical dual piston caliper as the Pacifica. The Explorer the same wheel bolt pattern as the Caravan and the rotor is 1" larger in diameter, while the Pacifica has a larger wheel pattern and 1.5" larger rotor. But, the Pacifica wheel bearing looks like it might be the same bolt pattern and fit onto our spindles?

Anyone have any thoughts? I'm definitely going to have to hit a salvage next weekend to eyeball some of these parts and try to assemble them. Any other vehicles I might look at?
 

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3rd gen > all others
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Interesting about the Explorer bracket. I found that out about 7 or 8 years ago, that the bracket would fit onto the 4th gen knuckle. Wheels would have to be HUGE to make that work.

Now, for the Pacifica Wagon parts (wagon, because there is a Pacifica minivan that could be confused with). The Pacifica knuckles will work with the 4th gen van AND the 5th gen van. The Pacifica hubs will only fit the Pacifica knuckles, and the 5th gen knuckles. The Pacifica hubs have an integrated wheel speed sensor for ABS, making them expensive. The Pacifica hubs have the smaller spline axle end that will fit a 3rd- or 4th- gen CV axle, but NOT a 5th gen axle (it's bigger). The Pacifica has a 5 on 5inch wheel bolt pattern, which is same as the 5th gen. Lastly, the Pacifica struts "should" fit on a 4th gen van because the upper mounts are the same and the mount to the knuckle is the same (but the strut itself is longer - OE lift kit). I actually have a pair of Pacifica struts now that I'm going to try installing on my 4th gen someday.

The Pacifica calipers use a different size bolt for the brake hose, so the van hose will NOT attach to it. You can take the front Pacifica caliper hoses with the calipers and attach the other end to your stock brake lines, as that is still the same. Then you just have to figure out how to route the hoses away from things.

The wheel pattern difference is what throws this out as an easy swap option for the 3rd and 4th gen vans. If one wants to go through the trouble of custom machining the hubs and rotors to the 5 on 4 1/2" pattern, then fitting at least a 17" wheel all around then you would have GREAT brakes. It is an upgrade better suited to the 5th gen vans that didn't come with the heavy duty brake option. That is actually what I was going to do to our 2011 Grand Caravan Crew before it got totalled (and I still have all of the parts).

Hope all that is useful. Happy hot-rodding!
 

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Changing up the brake system may have ill effects IF a crash investigation were to happen due to a wreck. Not worth it should the main items not be OE specified and rated for the vehicle. Marvin has a legit point here. It's more of a word of caution to consider. Not saying one way or the other IF this is an upgrade or a headache in the long run of things.

Otherwise, a good take-away from all this is ... (y)

" ... the Pacifica struts "should" fit on a 4th gen van because the upper mounts are the same and the mount to the knuckle is the same (but the strut itself is longer - OE lift kit). ..."
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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323 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I plan on swapping a spicy Mitsubishi engine and a 5spd into it later on, I've already started on a set of front coilovers, and I've brainstormed how I want to implement a rear cantilever coilover suspension.
Brakes are an obvious thing to upgrade first, it's just car engineering not rocket science. You can count the number of moving parts per brake on one hand.

If it makes you feel any better, the brakes are triple-redundant on our vans.
There are two master cylinders split diagonally into FR/RL and FL/RR, so if one hydraulic system blows you still have half the brakes working. And then there is a decent hand brake that uses a separate drum assembly inside the hub of the rear discs. There is no realistic situation where you don't have brake function.

I also don't see how modifying the suspension is any less of a liability than changing the brake system. I have liability insurance on my van, I am not being criminally negligent, thats really all that matters in court.
 

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I plan on swapping a spicy Mitsubishi engine and a 5spd into it later on
what do you think about this? i was thinking about this for mine in the future, seems like the perfect size and not crazy on power


maybe a little wrong to some to put a chevy engine in a mopar van but who cares
 

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I plan on swapping a spicy Mitsubishi engine and a 5spd into it later on, I've already started on a set of front coilovers, and I've brainstormed how I want to implement a rear cantilever coilover suspension.
Brakes are an obvious thing to upgrade first, it's just car engineering not rocket science. You can count the number of moving parts per brake on one hand.

If it makes you feel any better, the brakes are triple-redundant on our vans.
There are two master cylinders split diagonally into FR/RL and FL/RR, so if one hydraulic system blows you still have half the brakes working. And then there is a decent hand brake that uses a separate drum assembly inside the hub of the rear discs. There is no realistic situation where you don't have brake function.

I also don't see how modifying the suspension is any less of a liability than changing the brake system. I have liability insurance on my van, I am not being criminally negligent, thats really all that matters in court.
Greetings. I believe that in the case of an accident, for example the brakes were found to be the cause of the accident and discovered to not be OE and modified, there could be consequences. Further investigation should be conducted.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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Discussion Starter #12
Greetings. I believe that in the case of an accident, for example the brakes were found to be the cause of the accident and discovered to not be OE and modified, there could be consequences. Further investigation should be conducted.
Apparently you've never been to a car show. My van will be an Antique in 2 years and it has 430,000 miles, nobody is ever in a million years going to investigate what kind of part numbers were used on the brakes for this vehicle. In the same thread, I suppose your non OEM throttle body could jam up and cause an accident too.

There is no law, anywhere, that says you need to use OEM parts. There is liability insurance, there is criminal negligence, there is nothing else.
 

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I'm all in for larger brakes but we drive vans not high Hp cars. For me some good brakes lines,good rotors and brake pads is good enough.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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323 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
what do you think about this? i was thinking about this for mine in the future, seems like the perfect size and not crazy on power


maybe a little wrong to some to put a chevy engine in a mopar van but who cares
The reason for the Mitsubishi engine is that they were available in the 3rd gen. There are many different variations up to a 3.8L or a 3.0L Twin Turbo that theoretically bolt in with little to no modification, if they physically fit within the tiny engine compartment. Since I have a 3rd gen, there is theoretically a combination of OEM parts that makes my instrument cluster, stock electrical system, and what not work.

The 5 speed is a bolt in as well, axles and everything work. You need an A543 Mopar transmission and it bolts to the 3.0L Mitsubishi.



For your fourth gen, the best engine swap is probably an SRT4(Dodge Neon) 2.4L Turbo. It has been done, it is physically the same block or very close to the 4cyl 4th gen Caravan. Probably the easiest performance swap you could do. There is a guy doing one now on YouTube, I think he just finished tearing apart a junked SRT4 and was about to transplant it into a salvaged 4th gen Caravan.
Here is the first video he did on the SRT4 Caravan project-

There is some sort of 5spd like an A568 or something that should bolt into the 4th gen. But, unlike the 3rd gen, there were only electronically controlled transmissions so you're computer is going to freak out with a 5spd in there.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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Discussion Starter #15
what do you think about this? i was thinking about this for mine in the future, seems like the perfect size and not crazy on power


maybe a little wrong to some to put a chevy engine in a mopar van but who cares
Here is a finished "SRT4 Caravan" btw, albeit a third gen but close enough.
 

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Apparently you've never been to a car show. My van will be an Antique in 2 years and it has 430,000 miles, nobody is ever in a million years going to investigate what kind of part numbers were used on the brakes for this vehicle. In the same thread, I suppose your non OEM throttle body could jam up and cause an accident too.

There is no law, anywhere, that says you need to use OEM parts. There is liability insurance, there is criminal negligence, there is nothing else.
Greetings. I've been to many a car show. Also, I never stated there are laws against modifications. Please don't insult my intelligence that I stated something I didn't. I merely pointed out there could be consequences if a modification was found to be the cause of the accident. What I didn't say and should have is if the accident resulted in a death the insurance company "could" investigate the cause of the accident resulting in refusing to pay the claim depending on the results of their investigation.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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323 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Back on the 80's, Mitsubishi engine was a big mistake, don't know about 90's.
The 3.0L Mitsubishi is by all accounts subpar to the 3.3L and 3.8L in the 3rd gen as well. But, it's the SOHC 12V 3.0L. There is a 3.0L 24V SOHC, 24V DOHC, twin turbo, 3.5L and 3.8L derivative of the same engine, the 3.0L TT and 3.8L MIVEC are close to 300HP stock.

There arent many options with the 3.3/3.8L Chrysler engines, but the Mitsubishi family opens up a whole lot of configurations and aftermarket parts.

 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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323 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I took some things apart at the junkyard today, and the Pacifica Caliper and caliper bracket are both incompatible with the 01-2007 Caravan.

Some pictures-
56338

4th GenFront brake(with rear disc)




56339

2005 Lincoln Aviator
same lug spacing as caravan and same caliper bracket as Pacifica. Caliper is identical as are the pads except they are a few mm taller



56340

2006 Pacifica Front Brake
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
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323 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I was having trouble with my insulin pump so I left. Next time, I'll try to bolt a Pacifica spindle onto a 4th Gen Minivan. The only issue I foresee is the fact that the Pacifica doesn't have the ABS ring on the axle, so there is only one of the two bolt holes on the spindle to mount the speed sensor. That is something that I can fix with my 3D printer.

The other issue is the depth of the rotor. Unless I can find a rotor on another vehicle that has a 5 x 114.3 lug pattern, same depth, and same diameters, I'm going to have to order a custom rotor. There are countless companies that sell custom sized 1 or 2 piece rotors.
 
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