Brakes are driving me to drink!

90022 Views 43 Replies 24 Participants Last post by comrade, Jun 18, 2016

FrankBullitt

Discussion Starter · Jul 15, 2012

Well, not quite yet, but almost... I love our van but the ongoing brake problems are frustrating the heck out of me.

Just before we hit a year last fall, I complained of brake pulsation that you'd get with warped rotors. They replaced the front and rear rotors under warranty to eliminate the shudder, and all was well. Except that I noticed a quick accumulation of brake dust on the rear wheels, much quicker and heavier than the fronts. I told them of this at the 3000 mile oil change, but was told nothing was wrong. Same answer next time. Finally they replaced the rear rotors and pads when they started to screech unless the pedal was applied, and when the rear wheels became hot to touch after a short drive- in 30 degree weather! Now all of the sudden they found rusty caliper pins causing sticking, but gave me some BS about the rears wearing out more quickly. They replaced the rears but told me I had to pay $100 since they were not covered anymore (past 1 year) and that was "goodwill". I reluctantly agreed because I needed it done to travel that weekend.

Now it's summer and the fronts are shuddering again. Yep, the front rotors need replacement again, but now they have a different part number that is on national backorder. Again I am getting the BS about $100 deductible (I am now at 1 yr 8 months and 31K miles) but I am going to refuse to pay this one.

I don't expect anything to last forever but this is absurd. In 30 years I have never had a vehicle eat brakes like this (our 2001 Odyssey was notorious for wearing out pads but even it went to 40K on fronts and 100 on rears, and front rotors went over 100K). I was aware of brake issues on the 2008s, but thought they had it solved. Obviously not.

I suspect there is a deeper problem causing this besides inadequate pads/rotors- maybe a defect in the hydraulics on our particular van. Has anybody else experienced this, and what exactly is the warranty coverage on this sort of problem?

See less See more

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

Crashmaster

· #2 · Jul 15, 2012

Many things can cause premature brake pad wear.

DRIVER ISSUES:
1) Many drivers still use there left foot for braking and tend to ride the brakes.
2) If you carry a lot of weight in the vehicle or tow a vehicle
3) Constant quick braking

VEHICLE ISSUES
1) Cheap brake pads and/or rotors
2) Over torqued wheels, causing rotor warping
3) Poor lubrication – caliper pins

There are other issues, but these are the most common. It would also help if you preface your complaint with either the VIN# or model and year of your vehicle.

As to your question if this is a common issue, on the NHTSA website, this does not appear to be a common theme.

See less See more

RoutanSEL

· #3 · Jul 15, 2012

Our Routan has just turned 34K we have owned it for close to the same amount of time you've owned yours. We've gone thru 3 sets of rotors--yes 3 on a 2010. This last set has lasted the longest but the rears are warped now and that means the fronts are soon to follow. I for one will not be putting the OEM garbage back on but will be going with a higher quality rotor and pad. Friends of ours own a 2008 DGC which they bought new, in 12 months their original stuff was warped and they went aftermarket and have never looked back. They said it was the best decision they made, to the best of my knowledge they may still be on that set of rotors. These folks are also very conservative drivers. I was aware of the issues with the rotors but that wasn't stopping me from my purchase of our Routan. Now just to put some salt in your wound, we have never paid a dime for any of our rotor/pad replacements, VW has taken care of it's customers on this for sure. I'll still suspect some problems with the aftermarket stuff but it sure would be nice to get more than 12K out of a set of rotors, hopefully the aftermarkets will get us close to 30K. The brakes are undersized for the vehicle point blank, I just find it crazy that they offer the HD brake package with 17" wheels only on the 2012's when they should be standard. Oh, and for the rear brake dust, that sir is 100% normal with these vans as the brakes are biased heavily to the rear. The other thing that gets me are the guys who put the aftermarket stuff on and never post back with a progress report on how the stuff is lasting, anyone have some results?

See less See more

gsmagnum

· #4 · Jul 15, 2012

Crashmaster said:
Many things can cause premature brake pad wear.

DRIVER ISSUES:
1) Many drivers still use there left foot for braking and tend to ride the brakes.
2) If you carry a lot of weight in the vehicle or tow a vehicle
3) Constant quick braking

VEHICLE ISSUES
1) Cheap brake pads and/or rotors
2) Over torqued wheels, causing rotor warping
3) Poor lubrication – caliper pins

There are other issues, but these are the most common. It would also help if you preface your complaint with either the VIN# or model and year of your vehicle.

As to your question if this is a common issue, on the NHTSA website, this does not appear to be a common theme.

This is a common issue. Chrysler has an extended warranty on the brake pads and rotors for my 2011 T&C. The 4th gen vans such as your van had adequate brake rotors and pads from the factory. The 5th Gen does not. They will stop the vehicle just fine, but will not last as long as they should.
At least they aren't as bad as those on a base 1994 model like I had the first time around. Those not only wore out early, but could also be inadequate in the ability to stop the van.

My expectation to change pads is generally around 50,000 mi.

comrade

· #5 · Jul 15, 2012

gsmagnum said:
This is a common issue. Chrysler has an extended warranty on the brake pads and rotors for my 2011 T&C. The 4th gen vans such as your van had adequate brake rotors and pads from the factory. The 5th Gen does not. They will stop the vehicle just fine, but will not last as long as they should.
At least they aren't as bad as those on a base 1994 model like I had the first time around. Those not only wore out early, but could also be inadequate in the ability to stop the van.

My expectation to change pads is generally around 50,000 mi.

Is there an extended warranty on the brakes of the 2011 T&C's? I've got just about 11,000 miles on mine, and the amount of brake dust on the rears is amazing. I've never had a vehicle where the rears wear out quicker than the fronts.

Lately I've noticed that the brakes have an 'odd' feel to them, especially when they are warm from repeated use in traffic. Last week I had to make a very quick stop as a car blew a stop light, and the brakes just didn't feel right. The van stopped, but I didn't get a good, solid feel from the pedal.

Should I take it back to the dealer and ask about this extended warranty? Is there a technical service bulletin out there about this?

Thanks for any answers you can provide.

gsmagnum

· #6 · Jul 16, 2012

comrade said:
Is there an extended warranty on the brakes of the 2011 T&C's? I've got just about 11,000 miles on mine, and the amount of brake dust on the rears is amazing. I've never had a vehicle where the rears wear out quicker than the fronts.

Lately I've noticed that the brakes have an 'odd' feel to them, especially when they are warm from repeated use in traffic. Last week I had to make a very quick stop as a car blew a stop light, and the brakes just didn't feel right. The van stopped, but I didn't get a good, solid feel from the pedal.

Should I take it back to the dealer and ask about this extended warranty? Is there a technical service bulletin out there about this?

Thanks for any answers you can provide.

The warranty extension is for warping of front rotors and early front pad wear as I understand it. There is a price graduation as you go over 1year/12,000 mi and over 2years/24,000 mi up to 3 years/36,000 mi. It is not on the rear brakes. My rear brakes dust like crazy.
When the brakes get done on our van, it will probably be aftermarket, because I don't want to pay for factory junk.
You probably felt the "Brake Assist" system kick in. It does feel weird. I have only had it kick in once.

bisonfan

· #7 · Jul 16, 2012

Have any current owners tried switching to a vented rotor with say a ceramic pad to see how they stand up compared to original equipment? Would it be worth it to switch if when I buy a new van?

RoutanSEL

· #8 · Jul 16, 2012

bisonfan said:
Have any current owners tried switching to a vented rotor with say a ceramic pad to see how they stand up compared to original equipment? Would it be worth it to switch if when I buy a new van?

Fronts are vented, rears are not. I think the front pads are ceramic and the rears are semi metallics (hence the black brake dust), someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'd ride the OEM's until the're shot then upgrade, but then again I'd be choosing the HD brake package anyway too.

FrankBullitt

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jul 16, 2012

The abnormal wear is definitely NOT related to left foot braking (I drove a manual too many years to have that habit, and I am driver 80% of the time) by either my wife or myself, it is NOT aggressive braking (again, years of driving a stick taught me to read traffic), it is NOT towing or heavy loads.

The fault, based on what I see here, has to do with wholly inadequate pads and rotors. All OEM from the dealer. All tire rotations and work that would involve lug nuts done by dealer. The one rear set that screeched and ultimately "blued" the rotors was due to "sticking corroded hardware". The hardware that 3 months earlier (when I complained about excess dust and noise, I was told was taken apart and lubed.)

It is very odd that this vehicle would have such a strong rear braking bias- first time I've seen that in 30 years of driving. I'd almost expect it to "squat" then- like when I might have accidentally on purpose pull the handbrake to do a Rockford in my teen years....

I am confused then what warranty Chrysler provides on this- officially and unofficially. It sounds like VW has done right by customers, and some ChryCo dealers as well. Sounds like some people have gotten frustrated and gone aftermarket.

As much as I like this van, I'll be due to replace it in calendar year 2013 due to tax considerations. I figured I'd get another ChryCo, but since this problem seems to be one hanging on since 2008 (I don't consider my buying a towing pkg for better brakes to address an OEM shortcoming the right answer) I doubt I will. As great a package as the van is, complaining about the brakes every 3 months is a PIA. Maybe I'll get the Flex my wife wanted all along LOL. And I won't get the Challenger I have lusting after!

See less See more

DGC

· #10 · Jul 16, 2012

FrankBullitt said:
It is very odd that this vehicle would have such a strong rear braking bias- first time I've seen that in 30 years of driving. I'd almost expect it to "squat" then- like when I might have accidentally on purpose pull the handbrake to do a Rockford in my teen years....

Most new cars within the last 10-15 years with Electronic Brake Distribution have higher wear on the rears. It's not necessarily more rear break bias, but they'll grab the rears first in normal braking in order to reduce the nose diving sensation. Under hard braking, EBD distributes braking force between the rear wheels in order to keep the vehicle on a straight path while braking.

Dangermouse

· #11 · Jul 16, 2012

Does someone have some info on these "HD rotors". Are they bigger, better vented, cross drilled? Anyone have a part number?

I just replaced mine, and at no time did anyone mention that there was an alternative.

After a couple of months, the warping was back, and that is with a lightly loaded van. I'd gladly invest in better rotors.

comrade

· #12 · Jul 17, 2012

gsmagnum said:
The warranty extension is for warping of front rotors and early front pad wear as I understand it. There is a price graduation as you go over 1year/12,000 mi and over 2years/24,000 mi up to 3 years/36,000 mi. It is not on the rear brakes. My rear brakes dust like crazy.
When the brakes get done on our van, it will probably be aftermarket, because I don't want to pay for factory junk.
You probably felt the "Brake Assist" system kick in. It does feel weird. I have only had it kick in once.

It wasn't the anti-lock brake system or Brake Assist. I know what that feels like. This feels more like the 1989 Mercury Sable I had that went through six sets of front brakes in 30,000 miles, always the outer front left pad completely worn down. Once the pad material actually came 'unglued' from the steel backing and I had to have the car towed in. They had it for weeks while they tried to find the problem and kept changing parts, but with no good results. If it had been all the brakes, or all on one axle, I could understand it, but even after they changed calipers twice, it still kept doing it.

Finally after all that, and after threatening to go through the 'Lemon Law' arbitration in my state, they bought the car back from me, giving me the full retail price I paid if I would buy another Ford product. I did buy a 1993 Mercury from them for essentially nothing with the credit on the 1989, and the brakes on that never gave a bit of trouble. It was one of the nicest, quietest and best driving cars I ever had. So I got four years of transportation for just the price of gas and insurance.

I'm interested in what brand or type of after-market brake pads and rotors you intend to put on your van. I think that is probably the route I will go.

See less See more

gsmagnum

· #13 · Jul 17, 2012

Multiple people here seem to like the Akebono ceramic pads. That is probably what I am going to buy at this point. I will probably settle for the top of the line Raybestos rotors. I will not do Raybestos ceramic pads as they have not performed well for me in the past.
The dusting on the rear wheels is getting old.

ajosephg

· #14 · Jul 17, 2012

My 2011 is pushing 50k and at the last tire rotation at 48k the original pads and rotors look good. Rears are wearing faster but probably have 25% remaining. I do get some black brake dust on the rear wheels, but it's not really noticeable if I wash it every week.\

PS - Never have any pulsation.

FrankBullitt

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jul 18, 2012

My sister, with 34K miles on her 2010 T&C, had the pads and rotors replaced. She got what seems to be the standard "$100 deductible" treatment- "we're looking out for you even though we don't have to". Of course there is no design flaw in these brakes. Right.

Since I am on my 3rd set of fronts and rears in the past 15K miles, I fully expect that I'll be doing this again and again until I trade it. My intent has been to trade in the fall of 2012 or 2013. I thought I'd get another Chrysler-the van is a nice package, looks better than the Japanese competition and is a great value overall. It's not much of a bargain though, if I am going to spend a couple hundred a year on brake replacement, my mornings off work at the dealer convincing them there is something wrong and then sitting around while it is serviced. If Chrysler does not step up to the plate on this one, it will probably be my first and last. That's really a shame, because I saw myself sticking with Chrysler- my midlife crisis car was looking to be a Challenger or Charger. I am a former Honda owner who talked my dad into dumping Honda for a 300 (he had sworn off Chrysler after a disastrous 59 Imperial he bought as a young married man) and he loved our van so much he convinced my sister to trade her Odyssey for a T&C.

I hope these new rotors (I'm still waiting to hear from the dealer when they arrive- the "new" service part is on national backorder) are the solution. Every time the brakes shudder, I get the "I told you we should have bought the Ford Flex I wanted" look LOL.

See less See more

FrankBullitt

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jul 18, 2012

ajosephg said:
My 2011 is pushing 50k and at the last tire rotation at 48k the original pads and rotors look good. Rears are wearing faster but probably have 25% remaining. I do get some black brake dust on the rear wheels, but it's not really noticeable if I wash it every week.\

PS - Never have any pulsation.

Do you have the towing package? It sounds like those brakes are heavier duty units. Maybe this brake problem was taken care of on all vans (towing and non-towing) with the mid-cycle refresh in 2011....

gsmagnum

· #17 · Jul 19, 2012

Mine has the towing package and the rotors have a mild warp at 14,000 mi.

ajosephg

· #18 · Jul 19, 2012

Frank

No, I don't have the towing package, or heavy duty brakes, as I have 16 inch wheels. The unit was first licensed in March of 2011. I should note that most of the miles could be considered as highway miles. Also we try to drive conservatively so as to not race up to stop lights and/or stopped traffic.

2ez24get

· #19 · Jul 21, 2012

I have a 4th gen Town and Country but I will tell you the brakes are tricky to iron out. First warped rotors are always caused by excessive heat. Second unless you are racing your minivan around town and beating on the brake pedal it will always be the fault of the calipers. Sticky calipers and sometimes the guide pins don't allow the pad to retract causing excessive heat buildup. I swear by this method and you should consider trying this to verify which brake is the issue. Using an infered heat gun check the brake rotors after driving the van. I check the temp of the rotor right next to the caliper. Compare the temps between the two front rotors and again between the rear. If the temps between the two front rotors are more than 30 degrees that caliper is sticking. Do the same for the rear. I use to check the temp after several trips to get a consistent result. My rotors are usually about 15 degrees difference. When you identify the hotter of the two rotors you have taken a step forward in resolving the brake problem. I do my own brakes and have two sets of rotors which get swapped out every brake job. I am very hard on my brakes and go through a set of AutoZone Cermanic pads about every 20k miles. Now back to your problem. If the rear rotors are overheating check the emergency brake cable release. My 4th gen rear brakes have two pads one for the emergency brake and the other for stopping. In 30k miles I have yet to replace the rear brake pads or rotors. I spent alot of time figuring out my brake problems were the calipers and I hope this helps you figure yours out.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

FrankBullitt

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jul 23, 2012

The gist of this seems to be that many 5th gen vans have this problem with premature wear and rotor warpage, as well as 4th gen that are subjected to heavier and more frequent braking. The issue of sticking calipers certainly makes sense- I complained of screeching in the rears (that stopped with pedal application) and HEAVY dusting and was told nothing was wrong- until the rotors were warp to the point of shuddering. Then they found the caliper pins corroded.

I'm trying to be objective- I like the van a lot, and consider it a deal compared to the competitors. I don't want to buy another Honda (BAD experiences), think the Toyotas and Nissans are UGGGGGLY. I'd prefer to stay "domestic" whatever that means anymore, but Ford has a Flex that is more expensive, with less content and less room, and GM has a Suburban that is WAY more expensive. I could rationalize it and say "well, I'm spending $100 deductible every 3-6 months to pay the dealer to "fix" the brakes but I got it cheaper than the alternatives"; however, I think this wear and tear is both a defect and a safety issue. Chrysler's response is inadequate at best. (What exactly IS the real warranty on the brakes?)

I could go the DIY route, and upgrade to aftermarket pads and rotors, but I just don't want to spend my free time working on the vehicle that's the family hauler, especially since it's less than two years old, and it was purchased to avoid this sort of nonsense.

See less See more

1 - 20 of 44 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.