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Discussion Starter · #101 ·
Like Dan said, it's not clearance to the rotor but to the caliper that is the limiting factor. The 16" snowflake wheels did not touch the 4th gen caliper, but it was so close that I decided to give it a bit extra space "just in case". I ended up making a thin (.100") aluminum spacer just to provide that extra margin. You may or may not need it with the wheel you showed, best thing is to try it and then decide if you need a spacer.

Just to clarify - we're talking front brakes, not rear, right? For the rear, there is no difference between 3rd and 4th gen.
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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Yes, the front.
I plan on nabbing the 16" GC ES wheels and 4th gen knuckles from the same salvage yard, I suppose I'll pull a wheel and find a 4th gen out there to throw it on to test fit. Considering I just put new 15" tires on my GV last month, keeping the current 10 spoke wheels would be nice.
 

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I'm about to start gathering the parts for the front 4th gen brake swap and I'm wondering if any of the gurus know if the 16" wheels from the 98 to 2000 Grand Caravan will fit the 290mm rotors, preferably without spacers?
These are what the factory wheels I was wanting looked like.
The answer is kinda-sorta-maybe. Why?

Those were the wheels we had on our 1998 DGC Sport; one day our 2003 DGC ES got a flat and the spare tire was stuck, so I pulled a wheel off our 1998 and put it on the 2003. The good news is it bolted right up; the bad news is the offset is incorrect and the back of the wheel was in direct (and firm) contact with the side of the front brake caliper. So, what I *suspect* is the case is, you can probably mount the wheel on the rear of a Gen 4 van with 4-Wheel disc brakes, but you'll need spacers for the front wheels.

One possible caveat; the 2003 DGC had recently had a front brake job with new rotors and pads, I suspect if the pads were say, half gone, there would have been no clearance issue.
 

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I browsed through this entire thread and am interested in the rear disc swap to my 99 TC Limited, FWD.

One question I have is the point Lyonkster repeatedly made: the parking brake cable is a PITA!

So: can I re-use my existing drum parking brake cable in this swap, or do I have to use the 4th gen disc one?

Another point made in this thread is that the brake line needs to be flared to accommodate the 4th gen flex brake hoses. If that is true, then it can be a challenge to a newb who has never done this before. ;)

I sell a few Dodge Neon parts. One of the items I've sold the most is the rear disc setup. People do this for the look and perhaps for the better braking power.

A great thread! (y)
 

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One more question:

When you convert the 3rd gen rear drum to disc brakes, do you need a wheel spacer for the rear wheels? This is assuming you will be using brand new rotors and brake pads.

My van is a 99 TC, Limited, which has those chrome 15-spoke rims. Or, at least, I think there are 15 spokes. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #106 ·
I browsed through this entire thread and am interested in the rear disc swap to my 99 TC Limited, FWD.

One question I have is the point Lyonkster repeatedly made: the parking brake cable is a PITA!

So: can I re-use my existing drum parking brake cable in this swap, or do I have to use the 4th gen disc one?

Another point made in this thread is that the brake line needs to be flared to accommodate the 4th gen flex brake hoses. If that is true, then it can be a challenge to a newb who has never done this before. ;)

I sell a few Dodge Neon parts. One of the items I've sold the most is the rear disc setup. People do this for the look and perhaps for the better braking power.

A great thread! (y)
Wow, I don't know what happened to all the pictures I posted, Photobucket (who can rot in ****) made them all blurry.

As I recall, I had to make a frankenstein e-cable, but other years are easier. The '99 might be easier, but I can't tell for sure.

Flaring a brake tube is not hard (you want to do a double flare), but as with all things brake-related, please do it right. You don't want to lose your brakes due to a poorly flared tube.
 

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Discussion Starter · #107 ·
One more question:

When you convert the 3rd gen rear drum to disc brakes, do you need a wheel spacer for the rear wheels? This is assuming you will be using brand new rotors and brake pads.

My van is a 99 TC, Limited, which has those chrome 15-spoke rims. Or, at least, I think there are 15 spokes. :)
My van had 16" snowflake wheels, and they did not need any spacers for the rear calipers. I'm assuming the same is true for 15" wheels, but you'll have to check it for yourself.
 

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1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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I have a set of rear discs, I actually yanked the whole axle out of a T&C AWD.
I'm tempted to find a 4th gen axle and see if it will physically bolt up, and if it weighs less since it's stamped instead of cast.

The rear disc brake was equipped on AWD, Not all of them had 16" wheels. I will throw one of my old 15" 10 spoke Grand Voyager alloys on one to check though.

The cables seemed very different, but It's been a while since I looked. I bought 2 of the 3 cables, I could do the swap in about 2 weeks and let you know how it goes?
 
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Discussion Starter · #109 ·
I have a set of rear discs, I actually yanked the whole axle out of a T&C AWD.
I'm tempted to find a 4th gen axle and see if it will physically bolt up, and if it weighs less since it's stamped instead of cast.

The rear disc brake was equipped on AWD, Not all of them had 16" wheels. I will throw one of my old 15" 10 spoke Grand Voyager alloys on one to check though.

The cables seemed very different, but It's been a while since I looked. I bought 2 of the 3 cables, I could do the swap in about 2 weeks and let you know how it goes?
If you have the rear discs from the AWD, just use those. A complete axle from 4th gen will NOT bolt in easily, it's more work to do it that way. See my first post in this thread.
 

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If you have the rear discs from the AWD, just use those. A complete axle from 4th gen will NOT bolt in easily, it's more work to do it that way. See my first post in this thread.
Well, I'd only try the 4th gen axle if it was lighter, since it is stamped steel.

The reason they changed the front spindles from steel to aluminum on the 4th gen was to reduce unsprung weight by 15lbs. There is the potential for a significant improvement in ride quality and handling performance if the rear axle is lighter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #111 ·
Well, I'd only try the 4th gen axle if it was lighter, since it is stamped steel.

The reason they changed the front spindles from steel to aluminum on the 4th gen was to reduce unsprung weight by 15lbs. There is the potential for a significant improvement in ride quality and handling performance if the rear axle is lighter.
Fair enough, maybe it's worth the effort then. Just assess the work required first. I don't think the unsprung weight is nearly as important on a solid rear axle as it is on the IFS, but maybe it is.
 

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Stuck with a 3rd Gen
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No need for 4th gen wheels if you do the front, at least not for 16" wheels - I reused my original 3rd gen spiderweb wheels. Lots of other mods needed though, it was a much bigger job than the rears.
I have the 99 Limited 16" alum wheels. Dan (Road Ripper) said he used 1/8" spacers. Can you or anyone confirm if wheel spacers are needed, if I do the front 4th gen swap?
 

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I finally bought some 8 or 10mm spacers off ebay to fit my 2000 chrome Limited wheels over the front 4th gen brakes (on both my 2000 and 2004 vans). Both vans use the big front calipers that are matched with the rear disk brakes (use a bigger piston than disk/drum brake setup). You need the spacer with the stock steel 16" spare 3rd gen wheel on the front, too. Solution to that is replacing the spare with a 4th gen spare wheel.

I also have Timken hubs that have the stud heads flush (countersunk) into the rear of the hub wheel flange. This allows the stud to protrude farther than usual. I used Ford Taurus front wheel studs in the hubs, as they're longer. That enabled me to use regular lug nuts with the spacers, instead of the extended thread (ET) type. Not all Timken hubs have countersunk studs though, so I got lucky with mine.

I've seen a couple other 4th gen vans driving around with these same 15 spoke wheels on them. They either have smaller front brakes that allow the wheels not to hit the caliper, or were put on with used, worn down outer brake pads. They're in for a surprise when they put new front pads in, and the wheels hit the calipers! :ROFLMAO:
 
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I've seen a couple other 4th gen vans driving around with these same 15 spoke wheels on them. They either have smaller front brakes that allow the wheels not to hit the caliper, or were put on with used, worn down outer brake pads. They're in for a surprise when they put new front pads in, and the wheels hit the calipers! :ROFLMAO:
I will take a look at the stock wheels on 4th gen with 4 disc brake setup. They should clear the big calipers, right?

I am still debating about doing the 4th gen front brake swap and the rear disc swap. Got a few other things to sort out first.

Thanks for the great info, Dan!
 
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I have the 99 Limited 16" alum wheels. Dan (Road Ripper) said he used 1/8" spacers. Can you or anyone confirm if wheel spacers are needed, if I do the front 4th gen swap?
I used 1/4" spacers on my 1997 15" alloys, I have no idea about the 1999 16".

You'd only need them on the front, the rear discs are basically identical on the 3rd vs 4th except for a slightly different brake pad shape, the caliper and rotor are the same part number IIRC.
 
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I've seen a couple other 4th gen vans driving around with these same 15 spoke wheels on them. They either have smaller front brakes that allow the wheels not to hit the caliper, or were put on with used, worn down outer brake pads. They're in for a surprise when they put new front pads in, and the wheels hit the calipers! :ROFLMAO:
Dan, while practicing dropping trannies in the yard, I took a look at a couple 2002 Chrysler TC's. One was a Limited, the other an eX. Both had 4 wheel disc brake systems. The Limited had the 4th gen Limited style 15-spoke 16" alloy wheels. The eX's wheels were of a different kind--see pic. The case in point is that I believe the 4th gen Limited style 15-spoke 16" alloy wheels are factory; therefore, they should clear the front big calipers, when/if I do the 4th gen front brake/suspension system swap--unless you can prove me wrong. :)

I like to keep things simple. If possible, I'd avoid the hassle of putting on wheel spacers, extended wheel studs, etc, etc. :)

BTW, do the 4th gen 4 wheel disc brake system have LONGER wheel studs vis-a-vis 3rd gen? Have you or anyone checked?

Pic of 2002 Chrysler TC, Limited. Please look its wheels.

Tire Automotive parking light Automotive side marker light Wheel Car


Tire Wheel Car Automotive tire Tread


Pic of 2002 Chrysler TC, eX. Once again, look at its distinct wheels.

Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Land vehicle



Build sheet of the 2002 Chrysler TC, Limited---->https://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/BuildSheetServlet?vin=2C8GP64L52R504035

Build sheet of the 2002 Chrysler TC, eX------>https://www.jeep.com/webselfservice/BuildSheetServlet?vin=2C8GP74L42R714938

Purchasing a set of 4th gen Limited style wheels will set me back about $120 with everything included.
 

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Yup, those are 4th gen Limited wheels. 4th gen wheels have the spokes THICK-thin-THICK pattern while 3rd gen wheels have all the same thickness spokes.

Wheel studs are the same from 3rd-4th gen. They actually use the same exact front hubs! The bolts that hold the hubs to the knuckles are different - longer on 4th gen to go through the thicker aluminum knuckle.
 
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Yup, those are 4th gen Limited wheels. 4th gen wheels have the spokes THICK-thin-THICK pattern while 3rd gen wheels have all the same thickness spokes.

Wheel studs are the same from 3rd-4th gen. They actually use the same exact front hubs! The bolts that hold the hubs to the knuckles are different - longer on 4th gen to go through the thicker aluminum knuckle.
So the 4th gen Limited wheels WILL clear the 4th gen bigger calipers on the front, if I swap them onto my 3rd gen, correct? The advantage of using the 4th gen Limited wheels is that there is NO need to use wheel spacers or longer wheel studs. As I said in the earlier post, purchasing a set of those wheels from the yard will set me back about $120 with tax and everything included. However, changing the front brake and suspension to the 4th gen is not a priority for me right now. I've got a few other things to take care of on the van.

And thanks very much for chiming in, providing the excellent and expert information, Dan! 👍
 
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