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Discussion Starter #21
Another point on E-85 compatibility. US auto manufacturer's were essentially forced into outfitting some % of their vehicles for E-85 compatibility (and the extra cost) in exchange for incentives/credits for their US Fleet Mileage under the Alternative Motor Fuels Act (AMFA) of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) . US companies chose this route because their fleet economy was not meeting CAFE demands, and they did not want to reduce building their high profit/low mileage trucks.

So, again, what's the incentive for DCX to spent money to outfit E-85 vehicles headed to Europe, where there was no E-85, and DCX would receive no AMFA/CAFE incentive/credit?

-Jim
 

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Discussion Starter #22
Boris:

You still haven't told us if you've actually looked or confirmed that your van has: stainless fuel injector lines, green ringed fuel injectors, label on the fuel door.

Your van is running on e-85, but is it making full power? The O2 sensors and ECM appear to be compensating within its air/fuel map, but the pump/injectors may not be able to deliver the 20-30% more fuel to make up for the lower energy density. The tip would be it's running, but at 70-80% power...

Which means, yes, you can run a non E-85 van on it, at 3/4 power, until it kills the seals, pump, injectors, etc...

-Jim
 

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Jim,

The fuel injectors in my R type are of the same type as those on FFV.
Or let me put it differently:
- they are green and look tike http://info.rockauto.com/SMP/SMPDetail3.html?FJ477.html
- the PN of the injector for replacement parts for a 'R' type van in 2002 are the same as those for a '3' type.
=> which means only ethanol friendly injectors exist for that car on the replacement parts market.
Fuel door has no label. And again, it wouldn't have made sense to put a sticker that claims compatibility with a fuel that is not sold in 2002 in our area.

I analyzed the O2 sensor sinusoidal.
I get a perfect sinusoidal with 450mv mean with lowest at 0 max around 900, never gets above 1v.

So, let's say that, "knowing" the injectors CAN inject more and checking the ECU does compensate by asking the injectors to do so, I assume I'm running properly. I also ran that with external CO and CO2 sensors at my local mechanics.

What I believe is wrong (although I did not remove it) is the fuel pump which should not be ethanol compliant.
As I explained earlier, replacement PN for that piece differ for 'R' ans '3' types.
 

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Back on the comment you made about "cost" for a car manufacturer to build an "ethanol compatible" version.
What we can assume for sure is that "handling 2 versions" of the same car has a cost by itself.
Having to spend money studying what has to be done (or not done) to reach compatibility has a cost.
Producing the FFV version of the car has to be more expensive?
That I have no clue. No one ever proved me that is has to.
For instance:
2003 Fuel Pump for '3' type ref BOSCH Part # 67670 is $281.79.
2003 Fuel Pump for 'R' type ref BOSCH Part # 67679 is $290.79 but AIRTEX Part # E7146M is $195.79

Now, what if '3' for Chrysler would just mean 3x profit margin? :bcyclop:
Think about it... I mean, if I was Chrysler I would have taken the opportunity to increase my margin using the green effect (especially in the US where green can easily be understood 2 very different ways...).
(on second thought, I actually do that in my own business!!)
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Well cool then - replace the pump and filter that DCX either: cheaped out/took a profit/"half-greened"/dumped surplus ...and let r' rip!

Hope there's nothing else... the gauge, a seal somewhere...?

-Jim
 

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As far as I've found scouting the data (and not the field, yet..), the "sport" trim line is in name only - and does not include "across the board" adds/upgrades to the suspension or brakes. (Possible exception: it might add a rear stabilizer bar... I'm unsure) The alloy wheels, rear disc brakes, the tow shocks - those are in option packages added to the "sport" trim line...

Someone clear my up if I'm goofed on this...

-Jim
According to ConsumerGuide's website, the Sport Trim package adds "Tri-zone manual climate controls (including rear controls), rear air conditioning and heater, tilt steering wheel, cruise control, 2nd-row bucket seats, heated power mirrors, power windows, power door locks, remote keyless entry, tachometer, overhead console, trip computer, universal garage-door opener, rear defogger, automatic-off headlights, floormats."

I have it bookmarked, because it's fairly accurate. It also mentions that the Trailer tow package includes a full sized spare tire. So if you're looking at cars.com, and you notice that the spare tire hangs a little below the rear bumper, that's a clue that it might have the trailer package.

Also, I noticed that most 03's with rear disks also have alloy wheels. Again, looking at a site like cars.com, it should be easy to see thru the alloys to see if it has rear disks. If it has rear disks and a fullsize spare, chances are it has the trailer tow package.

Here is the page for the 03:
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2003-dodge-caravan-2.htm
 

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I don't know if this has been said on here already, but here goes...if you really want to know if the 3.3 liter in your caravan is flex-fuel compatible, according to the owner's manual in my '01 grand caravan it says to look inside the fuel filler door. If it says E85 Ethanol or Unleaded fuel only, then you are golden, but if it says unleaded fuel only, do not put E85 in the tank.

Now that is for U.S. versions, I cannot vouch for units sold outside the states.
 

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My 03 GC Sport also has the R engine ID.
It does have the Green injectors and stainless fuel line (I know cause I just changed the fuel filter)
I too was wondering about E-85 compatibility.
The owners manual mentions E-85 but the fuel door and cap don't specify anything.
Did anyone get a definitive answer about the "R" engine?
 

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OK, here is my .02 on E85...I went to our local Co-op that sells it, and filled the van's tank with ethanol with 1/4 tank of regular unleaded already in the van per the owner's manual. Price was $2.999 per gallon for the E85, and has stayed at that price for some time, despite the fluctuations, and rises in the fuel market. I did not notice any differences in performance, but I did have a LOT of problems with the van not wanting to start. Especially if I just shut it off for a short time to run in, then out of a store, bank, post office, ect.

When it did start, it would sputter, shake, and lope. Now, usually I get @ 27 to 28 mpg, but with the E85 my mileage dropped to 20.1! I have heard that some of this is due to evaporation, and was actually trying to improve my mpg while on the ethanol. I tried this test during August 2008 with temps in the high 80's to low 90's. I can't imagine what kind of issues there would be in cold weather operation.
 

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I have heard that some of this is due to evaporation, and was actually trying to improve my mpg while on the ethanol.
I hope that was a joke, because there ain't no way and ain't no how that your engine will EVER get better mileage with E85 in the tank.
 

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I wasn't trying to improve my mpg by putting E85 in the van, I was trying to improve my mpg WHILE the E85 was in there...eg; shorter trips, less driving, less idling, slower speed, not using a/c, etc.....
 

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I wasn't trying to improve my mpg by putting E85 in the van, I was trying to improve my mpg WHILE the E85 was in there...eg; shorter trips, less driving, less idling, slower speed, not using a/c, etc.....
Ahh, got it, sorry, my bad. :beerchug:
 

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A 50/50 mix of E85 and Regular seems to be the most economical mix. Wish they would offer it at the pump
 

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Back on the comment you made about "cost" for a car manufacturer to build an "ethanol compatible" version.
What we can assume for sure is that "handling 2 versions" of the same car has a cost by itself.
Having to spend money studying what has to be done (or not done) to reach compatibility has a cost.
Producing the FFV version of the car has to be more expensive?
That I have no clue. No one ever proved me that is has to.
For instance:
2003 Fuel Pump for '3' type ref BOSCH Part # 67670 is $281.79.
2003 Fuel Pump for 'R' type ref BOSCH Part # 67679 is $290.79 but AIRTEX Part # E7146M is $195.79

Now, what if '3' for Chrysler would just mean 3x profit margin? :bcyclop:
Think about it... I mean, if I was Chrysler I would have taken the opportunity to increase my margin using the green effect (especially in the US where green can easily be understood 2 very different ways...).
(on second thought, I actually do that in my own business!!)

Hi Boris,

My case is same as yours. I live in France and bought a grand voyager AWD 2001 wich is 3.3l V6. the 8th caractere on the VIN is also a R.
I tried to use E85 with. the light comes when I am more than 80%. Did you have the same? how did you resolved it?
Thanks
 

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All vehicles made on and after 2001 model year should comply with the Federal EPA mandate to be E15.


Now, there is very active DEBATE out there IF the 2001-2006 era vehicles are really E15 able.
A balanced article ... https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/hybrid-electric/a11687/four-things-to-know-about-e15-15096134/

The BIGGER question is, fuel system aftermarket parts. Do these meet or exceed the new mandate for your modle year vehicle? Chances are ... probably not. And here lies the smoking gun on those vehicle years prior to the E85 roll out.
 

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Thanks for your Quick answer! Reading many comments I think it is OK for e85. But, if that, why the motor Light goes on? Is the software différent in us and Europe ? What happened to boris? Is his car still working ? Did he had the Light on?
 
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