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Discussion Starter #1
Have just bought a 96 Grand Voyager Van 3.3 that had a few minor things to be done to it. One of them being that either no, or very little, heat was getting into the cabin. Thought it was the radiator as it was leaking. Having replaced that and flushed the system - the problem persists.. Arrgh.:Wow1:

Explanation:
The engine gets correctly warm after about 5mins of idling/driving and stays at the same temp. throughout.
When turning on the blower with the mode set all the way to "cold" a lot of air comes through all vents. When sliding it to "warm" almost no air is flowing from the vents, and that which is, is no more than 16 degrees celsius. Regardless of warm/cold setting, the vents going through the front doors leading to the back will blow as much air through as selected.
Ï have completed the calibration test (actuators and vents opening/closing) and everything passed (and seemed fine according to the sound it makes).
The aircon is not working - but I do not intend to fix it as it usually is quite cold in Denmark anyways :bcyclop: Only thing is that a really weird "clicking" sound can be heard from what seems to be a vaccum pump or something at the far left of the engine bay. I believe it only matters in terms of the A/C, but just in case it matters, I chose to mention it for those of you who might be able to help.

Currently I am going to start working on removing the HVAC tomorrow, but any.. really any help will be greatly appreciated as I do not have any sort of manual except what I have been able to track for free online.:ask_wsign

Respectfully and appreciating any response
Brian the Dane.
 

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Feel the heater hoses, are they both hot?
 

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Discussion Starter #3

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You're going to have to take a look at the air flaps. It seems that the door that directs air through the heater core must not be opening.
 

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You're going to have to take a look at the air flaps. It seems that the door that directs air through the heater core must not be opening.
Air flaps...hmmm... those are located where?
I imagine that would be close to the heater core, found this illustration in the service manual, but nowhere does it speak of any air flaps(but I agree that sounds logical)? heater core.JPG
 

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I'm not exactly sure what they are called. They are the doors internal to the HVAC box controlled by the electric motors mounted on the outside. Sounds like one is not moving to allow the air to flow through the heater core.
 

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Air flaps...hmmm... those are located where?
I imagine that would be close to the heater core, found this illustration in the service manual, but nowhere does it speak of any air flaps(but I agree that sounds logical)? View attachment 2216
Both heater hoses are hot. That's a good sign that coolant is flowing.
Since coolant flows through the heater of the generation 3s at all times, the only time heat won't come out is when the control doors aren't opening to let it out.
As I understand it, there are three door actuators involved:
- blend door actuator (cold/warm mix)
- mode door actuator (defrost, heat, etc)
- recirculation door actuator (no outside air)

Does it mention these doors in the Service Manual?
 

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The diverter doors are a good bet. It could also be a clogged heater core but lets hope not. "Clogged" not such that coolant flow is completely blocked but enough that the heat is not radiating out the fins and essentially all heat is returning back to the engine.

How many miles are on the van?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Both heater hoses are hot. That's a good sign that coolant is flowing.
Since coolant flows through the heater of the generation 3s at all times, the only time heat won't come out is when the control doors aren't opening to let it out.
As I understand it, there are three door actuators involved:
- blend door actuator (cold/warm mix)
- mode door actuator (defrost, heat, etc)
- recirculation door actuator (no outside air)

Does it mention these doors in the Service Manual?
All of those doors are mentioned in the service manual, and all have been checked via the calibration test - all passed. The sound I can hear when they move corresponds to that; that they all seem to work.. :ask_wsign
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The diverter doors are a good bet. It could also be a clogged heater core but lets hope not. "Clogged" not such that coolant flow is completely blocked but enough that the heat is not radiating out the fins and essentially all heat is returning back to the engine.

How many miles are on the van?
Will definetely check all doors possible, when checking the core. I suspect it may be "semi-clogged" too, not heating the fins - however, that doesn't really explain to me why the air seems to almost stop flowing when heat is turned on - only why there is little or no heat coming through.

The van has done approx 169k miles.

BTW - is it possible/legal to upload the Factory Service Manual somewhere inhere?
Now that I've found it online for download, don't see any reason why everyone else shouldnt have easier access to it (its quite a bit of searching..)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Heater core removed, flushed and installed again. Could have been part of the problem, I am now getting approx. 30 degrees celsius hot air into cabin. Should it be warmer?
However, the air still doesn't flow very well from the vents. Has to be the doors. Just checked with the repair shop. All new doors are only approx 100$ plus of course installation. Will return with exact explanation on how I fixed everything for others to seek help by.
 

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Yes the air should be warmer. It will probably get warm when you get the door issue fixed. I don't have an infrared temp gun, but I would guess that on extended trips, the heat can get upwards of 110*F so ~43*C. It sure can get really warm which I love.
 

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Well took it for a drive to town this evening and.... arrgh... problem persists!
The semi hot air all gone again. Getting down to approx 10 degrees max when driving. That is ..... freezing, when driving in -10 as it is here these days. :(

Found that I could get the air up to approx 30 again when I "Massage" the hoses going into the cabin - so clearly a flow problem still. :confused:

Next week when I have access to a fully equipped garage again, I'll try disconnecting the hoses at the engine bay and flush from there. Hopefully also find time to disasemble the whole heating systems to check all doors opening and closing as the are supposed to. Jeez!

Suggestions still very welcome.:help_wsig
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Additionally the diagnostics codes retrieved indicates only the A/C issue and that the battery has been taken off. Codes 12 and 31:
•12 Battery or computer recently disconnected (will occur on most cars most of the time, it indicates a low / missing battery happened in the last 50 key starts. Don't worry about it. — Tom Wand)
•31 Bad evaporator purge solenoid circuit or driver

Could the evaporator purge solenoid have anything to do with anything??
 

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Well took it for a drive to town this evening and.... arrgh... problem persists!
The semi hot air all gone again. Getting down to approx 10 degrees max when driving. That is ..... freezing, when driving in -10 as it is here these days. :(

Found that I could get the air up to approx 30 again when I "Massage" the hoses going into the cabin - so clearly a flow problem still. :confused:

Next week when I have access to a fully equipped garage again, I'll try disconnecting the hoses at the engine bay and flush from there. Hopefully also find time to disasemble the whole heating systems to check all doors opening and closing as the are supposed to. Jeez!

Suggestions still very welcome.:help_wsig
The amount of flow through the heater core has nothing to with your dash controls. There is no control valve these days on the coolant line to the heater.
The dash controls are for the doors which direct air and/or control amount of opening for the air to pass through. If you are directing air to your face at full hot temperature setting and the volume isn't any where near what you expect, then flow is being restricted. The volume should be there regardless of its heat content the same as it would be if you did the same operation at startup on a cold morning.
That's the way I understand it unless you have automatic temperature control which may operate differently but shouldn't in manual mode. I sense you aren't getting the volume of air expected.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The amount of flow through the heater core has nothing to with your dash controls. There is no control valve these days on the coolant line to the heater.
The dash controls are for the doors which direct air and/or control amount of opening for the air to pass through. If you are directing air to your face at full hot temperature setting and the volume isn't any where near what you expect, then flow is being restricted. The volume should be there regardless of its heat content the same as it would be if you did the same operation at startup on a cold morning.
That's the way I understand it unless you have automatic temperature control which may operate differently but shouldn't in manual mode. I sense you aren't getting the volume of air expected.
You are absolutely right.. The amount of air when set at hot, that it is only just possible to feel it on your hands. Regardless of which vent it is turned to(feet/face/demist or combos). However, when set at cold - the amount of air going through all is fine.
Keep in mind that the actuators and the doors calibration test was a full pass?? (normally thats what I'd have thought that problem came from).
 

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You are absolutely right.. The amount of air when set at hot, that it is only just possible to feel it on your hands. Regardless of which vent it is turned to(feet/face/demist or combos). However, when set at cold - the amount of air going through all is fine.
Keep in mind that the actuators and the doors calibration test was a full pass?? (normally thats what I'd have thought that problem came from).
Any rodents been building nests in your vehicle? They can get into some weird places.
 

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Heater core removed, flushed and installed again. Could have been part of the problem, I am now getting approx. 30 degrees celsius hot air into cabin. Should it be warmer?
However, the air still doesn't flow very well from the vents. Has to be the doors. Just checked with the repair shop. All new doors are only approx 100$ plus of course installation. Will return with exact explanation on how I fixed everything for others to seek help by.
I checked my heat output with an infrared meter: the front vents blow 125-135 F (51C - 57C). The floor vents are at 110 F(43C). This while pulling in 50F outside air.

I also note that when the engine is cold, I can crank up the fan and blow lots of cold air out of whichever door setting I have selected WITH the heat control set to cold(blue). However, when I slide the heat control to hot(red), the doors get diverted such that very little air is coming out of the vents. This is nice because I really don't like cold air blowing on me while the engine is heating up. As soon as the engine warms and the heater core gets warmer, the air out of the vents increases. The door/fan is operating pretty much like yours when the engine is cold.

So, what does this say about the design? Well, these Chrysler guys were apparently smart enough to think about diverting air until the heater was up to snuff. In your case, it may be that the heater core never gets hot enough to let the HVAC system fully open the door(s). I dont claim to know how it all works but there must be some sensing of the heat output. Is it at the engine or heater core? Do not know.

The fact that you went from 16C (your first post) to 30C (after flush) is very telling to me. That is a good improvement, relatively speaking. It seems to me that perhaps your heater core is still plugged and a flush was not enough to fully clear the built-up crud. Personally, I would have put a brand new core in there while I was at it.
 

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Any rodents been building nests in your vehicle? They can get into some weird places.
Boy, when I read this one I could hear a bell going "DING DING DING" in my head. We had a rodent get all the way into the blower housing in our '01 Buick. Obviously, the fan wasn't blowing when he decided to take a peek. But next time I turned on the car and he was in there - well, lets just say the little feller made a right mess of things...
 

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here's my 2 cents worth..
if the air is blocked (reduced airflow) when heat is on, sounds like the heater core might be plugged up with junk (there's no cabin air filter in 3rd gen to my knowledge..)
 
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