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Discussion Starter #1
Greetings from antoher side of the world, Finland, northern Europe

And talking about E85 fuel, it's impact to food production etc.

E85 is a new thing here in Finland. At the moment there are only six stations selling it. I have been using only E85 since it came to market in April 2009. Very clever idea in the production process is the raw material. It is not something that can be used for food. It's the waste that comes from food processing industry, for example bakeries, vegetable processing and packaging plants etc.

The material, that cannot be used for making food for people, can still be used for making fuel ethanol. And still, waste for that process can be used for animal feed. Ethanol production plants are located at the food production sites to avoid waste transports. Transporting the 80% proof ethanol to dehydration plants utilizes empty gas trucks on their way back to refinery.

With this concept the CO2 footprint of ethanol has been minized.

(1kg = about 2.2lbs)
(kgoe = Kilogrammes of oil equivalent)

Finnish biowaste process: 0,01 kg CO2 / 1kgoe
Brazilian sugarcrane ethanol: 0,5 kg CO2 / 1kgoe
US Corn ethanol: 1,4 kg CO2 / 1kgoe
Fossil gasoline: 2,7kg CO2 / 1kgoe

Well, how does this sound like? I like the idea. I don't know about the forum rules of marketing so I don't post any links to company website yet...
 

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Welcome mmakine!

Good information! Thanks for sharing that.

Maybe if that started over here in the US, things with the corn industry would figure out that they aren't the only source for Ethanol, which would level prices a bit more (currently close to 100% more what it was back in 2001, but to a high of 300% of that price).
 

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Those of us in the corn industry know our time is limited. That is why we are part of the research going into alternatives.

Right now, nothing is more plentiful, or efficient as corn for ethanol.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I checked quickly the forum rules and I guess it's not forbidden to post any company names. Moderate this if I've been wrong. Anyway, don't consider this as marketing, use only for scientific purposes :cool:

The company I told about is ST1 Biofuels.

http://www.st1.eu/

Is corn really plentiful? Wich one you have more: corn for ethanol fuel or unused biowaste?

Next time when you eat french fries, think quickly what they have done for potato peels and how much they can have that waste. Maybe it's used for animal feed but so is corn too.

Food is for eating. Waste is for driving minivans.
 

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mmkaine,
I wish you well, but don't share your enthusiasm. The process you describe must be an energy net loss process, i.e., it has to require more energy to produce the final product, than it will deliver.
Why would anyone want to actually reduce CO2 emissions? There is absolutely NO conclusive evidence linking CO2 production to so called "global warming" (a concept very doubtful in itself). Additionally it has been shown that plants thrive in increased CO2 situations, which could be a boon to helping to feed the worlds ever increasing population!
I "love" your closing comment by the way, that "Waste is for driving minivans"!:lol:
 

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Discussion Starter #7
mmkaine,
I wish you well, but don't share your enthusiasm. The process you describe must be an energy net loss process, i.e., it has to require more energy to produce the final product, than it will deliver.
You maybe forget the almighty fusion power source up in the sky called Sun that grows up those potatoes they peel. And make moonshine from those peels. It is absolutely sure an energy loss process but who gives a damn if the energy is stored in potato peels?

The basic idea of making biofuels is to liquificate solar power. Of course it's impossible to make energy from nothing but usually people tend to forget that mystical power those green plants have. They really can transform solar energy into chemical form, you know, the photosynthesis.

Fermentation, distilling, dehyrdating and transport take their part from total efficiency. But much less than the final product gives out.
 

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Corn is much easier to collect and process than biowaste, although we are working on ways to collect crop waste, yet still maintain proper levels of organic material for the soil.

I like the idea, however.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
In this process the biowaste is not collected. The fermentation/distillation plant is installed to waste source site. That's why it using food industry biowaste, not household waste. I guess it also helps processing when the waste from food plant is always same type.

Anyway, they are working on a ethanol project that uses munincipal household biowaste as feedstock. Biowaste is already collected separately in most European countries as it's not very good idea to just dump it into landfills. There are some projects making biogas of that waste, time will show can it be source for ethanol too.
 
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