[Long_Voyager94]

Having personally installed 45 series tires on 17" SRT wheels, I know you are very wrong when you say "the handling difference was minimal". It still didn't compare to my Stratus on the same 225/45R17 tires and wheels, but it was like night and day from 15" wheels.

I used to Autox this van.
It was on 225/45r17s. The handling was great, the ride was horrid.

My other van on 15s handled almost identical, really only noticeable at the absolute limit, but it was still perfectly smooth for daily use. Being a daily driver/family hauler, keeping it smooth took precedence over all out handling.

 

[Sienile]

45 series?? You mean aspect ratio? What difference that will make will vary on the tire.

 

[oregondriver]

It was on 225/45r17s. The handling was great, the ride was horrid.

Oh, so now "The handling was great", but somehow the 3rd gen, WHICH HAS THE SAME SUSPENSION, handles like a wet noodle.
According to the part catalogs, the same rear shocks will fit from 1984-2007.

 

[Long_Voyager94]

Oh, so now "The handling was great", but somehow the 3rd gen, WHICH HAS THE SAME SUSPENSION, handles like a wet noodle.
According to the part catalogs, the same rear shocks will fit from 1984-2007.

3rd gens tack on an extra 3-500lbs on the same suspension, which makes them feel rolly and sloppy. But of course you already know that, you're just trying to keep an argument going to make yourself feel better.

 

[oregondriver]

No, I am telling you, the 3rd gen with 17 inch wheels and new KYB shocks, is NOT rolly and sloppy. However the ride is very harsh compared to the exact same tires on my current Honda Odyssey, which has fully independent suspension, and ABS and disk brakes on all four wheels. Also compared to putting the same wheels and tires on my Stratus, which also has fully independent suspension and disk brakes on all four wheels.

And going back to the main intent of the OP, after experiencing crisp handling combined with a smooth ride from fully independent suspension, I will never go back to a solid axle again.

 

[Long_Voyager94]

No, I am telling you, the 3rd gen with 17 inch wheels and new KYB shocks, is NOT rolly and sloppy. However the ride is very harsh compared to the exact same tires on my current Honda Odyssey, which has fully independent suspension, and ABS and disk brakes on all four wheels. Also compared to putting the same wheels and tires on my Stratus, which also has fully independent suspension and disk brakes on all four wheels.

And going back to the main intent of the OP, after experiencing crisp handling combined with a smooth ride from fully independent suspension, I will never go back to a solid axle again.

So what you're saying is after you upgrade the suspension and wheels and tires, they drive okay.
In case you didn't notice, we're talking about stock vehicles here.
3rd and 4th gens are rolly and sloppy stock, there is no argument there.

 

[2019GTlife]

Wow!!! Y’all are arguing back and forth about items that are based on feel and opinion. Ya ain’t gonna agree.

 

[Road Ripper]

Don't forget there were some SPORT versions of the 3rd and 4th gen vans that had stiffer suspension, larger sway bars and 17" wheels with 55 series tires stock.

Some 60 series tires can be stiffer than others, due to the speed/load rating.

3rd gen vans did NOT have the same suspension as 2nd gen vans. The rear leaf springs were monoleaf and longer, the front sway bar was bolted into totally different places, and gone was the heavy steel front subframe, replaced with a cast aluminum one. There were also Nivomat shocks for the rear, something 2nd gen never had. The 3rd gen rear axle was also wider than the 2nd gen, at least between the leaf springs (as I found out).

For varying levels of performance or comfort, there are many trims/options available of the later generations to choose from.

 

[atoman]

And you don't have to be scared of it just because it's new and different...
5th gens are hella simple.

Scared of what? :LOL where are you getting that from?
and what's so fundamentally different about 5th gen?

Rhetorical questions aside, (since you seem to know it all) please explain why I should shell out 10-25 grand for a product I feel no appeal for, when my current vehicle is plenty sufficient for it's intended use?

FYI: I drive and service a 2014 Touring regularly...

 

[oregondriver]

Don't forget there were some SPORT versions of the 3rd and 4th gen vans that had stiffer suspension, larger sway bars and 17" wheels with 55 series tires stock.

Some 60 series tires can be stiffer than others, due to the speed/load rating.

3rd gen vans did NOT have the same suspension as 2nd gen vans. The rear leaf springs were monoleaf and longer, the front sway bar was bolted into totally different places, and gone was the heavy steel front subframe, replaced with a cast aluminum one. There were also Nivomat shocks for the rear, something 2nd gen never had. The 3rd gen rear axle was also wider than the 2nd gen, at least between the leaf springs (as I found out).

For varying levels of performance or comfort, there are many trims/options available of the later generations to choose from.

It's the same basic design, uses the same rear shocks, and the changes actually make the 3rd gen SUPERIOR to the second gen. A wider axle is more stable. Monoleaf springs function more smoothly with no binding. But it is still far short of Honda with the independent suspension and disk brakes, and five speed automatic.

If the KYB catalog is correct, the Nivomat shocks could be fitted to vans back to 1983 unless they have external controls.

For anybody still driving around on 14 inch wheels, I highly recommend getting some 16 from a PT Cruiser or Stratus sedan, or 17 from a Neon SRT4.

 

[2019GTlife]

So what you're saying is after you upgrade the suspension and wheels and tires, they drive okay.
In case you didn't notice, we're talking about stock vehicles here.
3rd and 4th gens are rolly and sloppy stock, there is no argument there.

I have to agree, these are minivans not sports cars. My 2019 handles great and feels like a sports car but I have been driving 20+ year old vehicles for 30+ years so about anything will handle good.
To me doing an upgrade or mods to the wheels, to be able to change the size of the tire substantially, and/or suspension upgrades just confirms that in the stock configuration the vehicle is lacking.

 

[oregondriver]

Changing the wheels and tires confirms that the wheels and tires are lacking. They don't sell new vans with 15" wheels for good reasons. They cause fishtailing and oversteer/understeer problems.

 

[dartslantsix]

We've had good luck with our 4th gen vans and terrible luck with the one 5th gen we had. So we're currently shopping for an Odyssey to replace our current van.
Started with a 2006 Chrysler T&C LX 3.3l. It was a great van. Only issues were the radiator leaking at 110k, intake manifold coolant leak and sliding door electric locks. Pretty minor issues. Sold it at 180k to upgrade.
Next was the 2009 Routan with 3.8l. So many problems.
Dumped the Routan and found a 2002 Chrysler Voyager with 3.3l. It's served us well, but my kids are getting taller, so the short length and lack of luggage space is becoming an issue. We're at 170k with this van.
I wouldn't mind finding a low mileage 4th gen, but they are hard to find in good shape. They're either trashed or have a billion miles.

 

[Jeepman]

We've had good luck with our 4th gen vans and terrible luck with the one 5th gen we had. So we're currently shopping for an Odyssey to replace our current van.

Might want to stay away from the 2018 Odyssey. Looked at the Kia Carnival?

And for warranty coverage, the 2023 Kia Carnival has one of the best in the automotive industry. It’s backed by a 5-year/60,000-mile basic warranty and a 10-year/100,000-mile powertrain warranty. However, the 2023 Toyota Sienna only has a 3-year/36,000-mile basic warranty and a 5-year/60,000-mile powertrain warranty.

Honda Odyssey Problems

Compare Honda Odyssey complaints, problems, & worst model years. There are 2,907 complaints on file for the Honda Odyssey.

www.carcomplaints.com

Dodge Grand Caravan Problems

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[dartslantsix]

Might want to stay away from the 2018 Odyssey. Looked at the Kia Carnival?

Honda Odyssey Problems

Compare Honda Odyssey complaints, problems, & worst model years. There are 2,907 complaints on file for the Honda Odyssey.

www.carcomplaints.com

Dodge Grand Caravan Problems

Compare Dodge Grand Caravan complaints, problems, & worst model years. There are 3,358 complaints on file for the Dodge Grand Caravan.

www.carcomplaints.com

We buy with cash, so we're looking at 2007-2010. Seems to be the most reliable years. 2007 they got the Ridgeline trans.
I was advised to avoid all things Kia.

 

[Road Ripper]

I'd avoid all things Honda. Especially Odyssey, as those were known for underbuilt transmissions that often fail. Since the Ridgeline also used the same transmission, they also had a lot of transmission failures - - too lightweight for the application. When the OEM makes the dealerships perform a "burnishing procedure" to try to fix the transmissions, you know it was an engineering mistake and they were desperate for some kind of "fix" that would get it just out of warranty so they wouldn't have to lose money on it anymore.

 

[oregondriver]

Speaking of companies that are known for transmissions that fail, Chrysler minivans are near the top of the list. Thousands of them go to salvage yards for that very reason.

Chrysler also pairs transmissions with engines exactly backwards. Tiny engine with no torque, they give you a wide ratio three speed. Big torquey V6, you get the special transmission with the most gears.