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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking in to replacing the lifters on my 2007 3.8 Grand Caravan. I searched for a "how to" but had no luck. Can I do it without replacing the heads? Can I get to them by removing the lower intake and valve covers? Thanks
 

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You need to get under the intake manifold. drain antifreeze remove the plug wires from the plugs just to get them out of the way. unplug all the plugs you need to to get them out of the road. all the vacuum lines the throttle cables twist the throttle clock wise and they are removed toward the engine. take the air intake off and undo the fuel line you'll see where to do this (have some paper towels handy) what i like to do is pull the fuel pump relay and run the engine till it quits no pressure. i am not sure if you need to remove the fuel rail or hot u decide. then remove the intake. remove valve covers and all the rocker arms. i have given you the basics the rest is up to you.

Hope this helps.

Mr. Fixit
 

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Any particular reason why you want to replace the lifters? or just the typical clicking chatter at cold start up? (you might want to try a different oil filter, Motorcraft FL1A seems to do the trick for cold chatter)
 

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You will have to remove the heads to get the lifters out.
 

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Any particular reason why you want to replace the lifters? or just the typical clicking chatter at cold start up? (you might want to try a different oil filter, Motorcraft FL1A seems to do the trick for cold chatter)
I was going to ask the same question.
 

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You will have to remove the heads to get the lifters out.
I've been wondering about this; when I swapped the head gaskets on our 1998 DGC Sport, I took a good look-see at the lifter valley and I don't remember seeing a way to pull the lifters without pulling the heads first. The good news is lifter issues with these engines are pretty darn rare.
 

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The only issues with lifters I've seen mentioned were actually cam lobes wearing down. It was said the cam(s) was/were not heat treated correctly, but I've not seen one myself so can't say for sure...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I really appreciate the input. I've been chasing a p0306 issue for probably a year. New plugs, wires, coil pack, injectors, catalytic convertor. Replaced intake gasket. Verified no wiring issue. Compression good at 150. New fuel pump.I'm thinking a lifter is weak. I only have a slight rough idle otherwise runs great. Sometimes the light goes off but then back off.
So it sounds like the heads need to come off to remove the lifters.
 

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I really appreciate the input. I've been chasing a p0306 issue for probably a year. New plugs, wires, coil pack, injectors, catalytic convertor. Replaced intake gasket. Verified no wiring issue. Compression good at 150. New fuel pump.I'm thinking a lifter is weak. I only have a slight rough idle otherwise runs great. Sometimes the light goes off but then back off.
So it sounds like the heads need to come off to remove the lifters.
If a lifter was weak you would most likely hear it loud and clear; I strongly suggest you look elsewhere for your issue.
 

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Someone with a DRBIII scan tool can run some verification tests to narrow the fault down.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SYMPTOM
P0306-CYLINDER #6 MISFIRE

TEST NOTE
This symptom is diagnosed using the test P0300-MULTIPLE CYLINDER MIS-FIRE.

WHEN MONITORED
Any time the engine is running, and the adaptive numerator has been successfully updated.

SET CONDITION
When more than a 2% (1.5% LEV) misfire rate is measured during two trips, or with a 10% to 30% misfire rate during one trip.

POSSIBLE CAUSES
Mis-fire conditions no longer exist
Fuel system problem
Secondary ignition or mechanical problem
Erratic CAM/crank sensor signals
Engine mechanical problem
Other possible causes for mis-fire
 

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I agree that a bad lifter would make a clattering sound. I can't think of any way it could be bad enough to trip a computer code and you not be able to hear it, plus the effect would be low compression which you don't measure.
 

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.. I've been chasing a p0306 issue for probably a year. New plugs, wires, coil pack, injectors, catalytic convertor. Replaced intake gasket. Verified no wiring issue. Compression good at 150. New fuel pump....
Can you post a few more details? Was anything done prior to the P0306 showing up? Did any of those new parts make a difference - any change at all? What's the mileage and did you see a change in MPG after the code showed up? How has it been running since the code was set - do you get stumble, or anything else performance-related? Have you pulled the plugs (at least the front 3) to take a look? The plugs can sometimes tell you a lot just by their appearance. Anything else about the past history of your van which might relate to the P0306?

Along with the other guys, I also think this is so much more likely to be something common and basic, and not caused by lifters.
 

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I really appreciate the input. I've been chasing a p0306 issue for probably a year. New plugs, wires, coil pack, injectors, catalytic convertor. Replaced intake gasket. Verified no wiring issue. Compression good at 150. New fuel pump.I'm thinking a lifter is weak. I only have a slight rough idle otherwise runs great. Sometimes the light goes off but then back off.
So it sounds like the heads need to come off to remove the lifters.
I have said this before so i will say it again. just for $hits and giggles pull the valve cover and look for a broken valve spring. it costs nothing but some time. look closely with a bright light. ( i put the flame suit on)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A while back I pulled the valve cover. Springs look fine. The P0306 (and sometimes P0300) just showed up off and on for no reason for nearly a year now. Now it is mainly on, P0306 only; no P0300. The new parts made no difference on the P0306. It has 206K, mpg is good (17/21). Really, it runs good. There is only a very slight stumble at idle; more so when in gear (like at a light). Smooth as can be on the road; notice no hiccup what so ever. The plugs looked normal. I've owned this car since 11K do all my own maintenance (as well as the other 4 cars in the family). I'm baffled. PCM? Would a dealer be able to do any more diagnostics?
 

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Start by checking the easy items of the following list...
Lifter problem would be down at the bottom of a possible causes, not saying it's impossible - but very unlikely.

FSM said:
P0306-CYLINDER #6 MISFIRE
When Monitored: Any time the engine is running, and the Target Learning Coefficient
has been successfully updated.
Set Condition: When more than a 1.8% misfire rate is measured during two trips, or with
a 10% to 30% misfire rate during one trip.
POSSIBLE CAUSES
INTERMITTENT MISFIRE
VISUAL AND PHYSICAL INSPECTION
IGNITION WIRE
ASD RELAY OUPUT CIRCUIT (COIL)
ENGINE MECHANICAL PROBLEM
IGNITION COIL
COIL CONTROL CIRCUIT
SPARK PLUG
CHECKING FUEL PRESSURE
FUEL PUMP INLET STRAINER PLUGGED
RESTRICTED FUEL SUPPLY LINE
FUEL PUMP MODULE
CHECKING FUEL LEAK DOWN
FUEL INJECTOR OPERATION
ASD RELAY OUTPUT CIRCUIT (INJECTOR)
FUEL INJECTOR
INJECTOR CONTROL CIRCUIT
PCM (IGNITION SYSTEM)
PCM
A dealer would most definitely be able to do more diagnostics, as long as you're paying. The question is would they be able to find root cause.
The answer to the latter would depend mainly on how good the techs are and how honest the dealership.
It would certainly be easier to connect a DRBIII and check for rich/lean condition, PCM operation etc. However, it's not guaranteed that the magic box (DRB) will give them a direct diagnosis/solution.
A lot of the tests can be done with other tools (oscilloscope, fuel pressure gauge, etc).

If it was my van, the first thing I'd try is a bottle of fuel system cleaner (cheap and simple item to check off a list)
 

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I have a 2003 town and country 3.8 at or about 200k i developed a rough idle P0300--P0302. so i did the norm NAPA plugs and wires. same problem. i live near a salvage yard and borrowed a coil. same problem. did the sea foam thing. same problem. i have a 3 ft plug wire top quality for testing. same problem. i used my spark tester where i can see it spark. rich blue spark. just for the fun of it i put a new coil on it. waste of time. then i remembered way back in the old days i worked with a fellow that was a very good mechanic long before computers and the like and when some one had a problem they couldn't fix they took it to him. we had a 6 cyl chevy rough idle did all the ignition things no result. he put a vacuum gauge on the intake and was watching it pulse a bit and he said this engine has a broken valve spring. took the cover off and sure enough there it was. now what i am saying this what i had. replaced the spring and all is well. now there is 258k on the clock. i am not saying this is your problem but there is something wrong with #6 cylinder and after you did all the ignition things it's time to look for a mechanical problem. for me if i just cracked open the throttle the miss went away and i mean just a smidge. just trying to give you some ideas where too look.

MR. Fixit
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I'm just trying to figure out what could be specific to number 6. I have not yet replaced the camshaft sensor. Otherwise, you can see my laundry list above. I wander if I could get the dealer just to hook it up to their machine for a diag.
 

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I'm just trying to figure out what could be specific to number 6. I have not yet replaced the camshaft sensor. Otherwise, you can see my laundry list above. I wander if I could get the dealer just to hook it up to their machine for a diag.
You already have a good answer on that question from atoman in post #15. One other question for you about the parts you've used. With the mileage on your van, I suspect you replaced the plugs at least once before, prior to the P0306 starting. Assuming so, which make plug did you use, and were the same ones used each time? I ask this because others have posted problems using some makes of plugs, particularly Bosch (no idea why a problem with plug make would only show up on #6 though). Champion Dbl Plat is the plug of choice on these engines, and if you didn't use them, it might be worthwhile giving that a shot.
 

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I would replace the valve springs on the #6 cyl before replacing the lifters. A broken valve spring is sometimes very hard to see and a weak spring is impossible to see without taking it off and comparing it to a new spring. I just replaced all the springs on my 2.4l engine when I had the head rebuilt. It is not hard to replace the springs you just need to use compressed air or the rope trick to keep the valves from falling into the cyl.
 

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I'm just trying to figure out what could be specific to number 6. I have not yet replaced the camshaft sensor. Otherwise, you can see my laundry list above. I wander if I could get the dealer just to hook it up to their machine for a diag.
Why #6 is a good question - did the plug in #6 look any different from the others? - did #6 have same compression?
 
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