Intermittent Vibration Highway Speed... CV Joint?

14511 Views 26 Replies 11 Participants Last post by marvinstockman, 12 mo ago

cjrusso

Discussion Starter · Dec 28, 2014

Have an 03 T&C, 135K miles, newish tires (under 10K miles on them), properly inflated. Runs fine, drives smooth, steers and brakes straight... most of the time. 3 times in the past month have been at highway speed (65ish MPH) for 10-15 minutes and suddenly get a strong vibration through whole vehicle timed with wheel rotation. Drop it into Neutral, rev engine, brake, change lanes... all have no effect on vibration. First two times I slowed down and it kept happening all the way down through 40ish MPH and then I stopped the vehicle to check tires (all fine). When I restarted it was gone. Third time I just kept driving and it went away on it's own in a minute or so. Checked and no play in wheel bearings or steering. Brakes worn similarly on both sides front. After thinking about it and reading other posts, I'm leaning toward a CV joint being the problem but the intermittent nature has me wondering. Any other suggestions to look at? Anything in the rear wheels to look at? How best to check CV's/half shafts, or just replace both? At 135K I guess they don't owe me anything

. Want to figure it out as the wife and kids use it most and having intermittent highway speed problems with the family truckster is never a good thing. Thanks!

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Mr. Fixit

· #2 · Dec 28, 2014 (Edited)

Get your self a helper that can follow instructions. raise the front end and put it in neutral. have the helper stand and i mean stand on the brake pedal all the while you are trying to turn the wheel then say LET IT GO!!!! you should be able to spin the wheel right away.
do this to both sides. now if you can't spin either one of them freely with minimal drag you have one of two things wrong. first if your brake hose has a bracket on it and i have found this to be a problem here is another test. do the above again only this time loosen the bleeder and with a pry bar of some sort put it in the lugs ( remove the wheel first and get the bleeder loose ) and have your helper repeat the test only this time try to turn the wheel with the pry bar and when he let's off loosen the bleeder. if it turns freely then you have rust between the hose and the bracket pinching off the small line inside. you can open the bracket with a big screwdriver or what ever and bang the rust out and re squeeze the bracket. if this fails then you have a stuck caliper.

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marvinstockman

· #3 · Dec 29, 2014

Next time it does it, pull over and see if one of the wheels/rotors is a lot hotter than the other. This will be the dragging brake.

cvguy

· #4 · Dec 29, 2014

You said it started at highway speed not touching the brakes, and that applying the brakes didn't change the vibration at all. JMO, but that doesn't sound like brakes, or anything related to the drive train for that matter, because it seems like at least one of those things you did would have changed the vibration, at least to some extent. Did you check the motor mounts, and searched for anything that might be loose underneath? How about the spare tire?

gusc

· #5 · Dec 29, 2014

Why didn't you check the tires for balance?

First thing I check when anything vibrates?

New tires mean nothing anymore, they can be out of round, been there recently. Rotated tires front to back - vibes stopped.

Do the simple things first, much cheaper and faster.

Shagger1234

· #6 · Dec 29, 2014

I will second what gusc said. My '97 Mercedes S320 have an intermittent vibration, that would come and go.
I gave the car to my local indy shop owner for a day. He drove it, felt the vibration, and opined that it was
a tire the separation. You can't prove it, but new tires on the front solved the problem.

gusc

· #7 · Dec 29, 2014

Shagger1234 said:
I will second what gusc said. My '97 Mercedes S320 have an intermittent vibration, that would come and go.
I gave the car to my local indy shop owner for a day. He drove it, felt the vibration, and opined that it was
a tire the separation. You can't prove it, but new tires on the front solved the problem.

Yeah, I had the belt separation thing too.

Found it when the van couldn't be aligned. The separation was not apparent to my untrained eye. Tires had plenty of tread and looked good.

cjrusso

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 30, 2014

Thanks one and all for taking the time to respond. I did not suspect brakes because the van generally drives fine and then starts the vibrating without me touching the brakes. And if I take my hand off the wheel while it is doing it it does not pull to either side which I'd think it would if one caliper was sticking. Do not think it is a balance issue with the wheels themselves (like missing or shifted weight) as the van drives smooth most of the time. Most recent occurrence was on a 120 mile round trip and it did it once, about 20 minutes into the trip, for about a minute, then it stopped. I have heard of ply separation but can it happen intermittently? Also did drop it into Neutral while it was doing it without effect so I figured probably not a motor mount or engine related. Next time it happens I have to verify that it is truly timed to the wheel rotation, and stop to check if any wheels are hot to rule out brake related issues.

marvinstockman

· #9 · Dec 30, 2014

You don't need to touch the brakes to make them vibrate. The rotor has been dragging, and it gets really hot and warps from the heat.

I'm not saying this is your problem. I just said pull over and see if one wheel/rotor is hotter than the other.

Like I said this has happened to me on a BMW, and it happened on my 2003 T&C.

Mr. Fixit

· #10 · Dec 31, 2014

marvinstockman said:
You don't need to touch the brakes to make them vibrate. The rotor has been dragging, and it gets really hot and warps from the heat.

I'm not saying this is your problem. I just said pull over and see if one wheel/rotor is hotter than the other.

Like I said this has happened to me on a BMW, and it happened on my 2003 T&C.

You are correct. if the caliper is not releasing all the way for any reason this will happen.

Joel_B

· #11 · Jan 1, 2015

1. Tire balance - go to a shop that has a Hunter RoadForce balancer and use them. It is the only balancer that will reveal sidewall and tire stiffness problems that will otherwise drive you crazy. I have had older tires that had a SIDEWAYS unevenness that manifested itself in a nasty lateral steering wheel shimmy. Only the Roadforce balancer found it.

2. I had the exact same problem on my old '99 Limited with 217k miles on the original Nivomat shocks. I replaced the shocks with new Nivomats and the problem went away (and the van rode 10x better). The low speed damping ability was worn out. They would pass the bumper bounce test but could no longer dampen high-frequency vibration.

gusc

· #12 · Jan 1, 2015

cjrusso said:
Thanks one and all for taking the time to respond. I did not suspect brakes because the van generally drives fine and then starts the vibrating without me touching the brakes. And if I take my hand off the wheel while it is doing it it does not pull to either side which I'd think it would if one caliper was sticking. Do not think it is a balance issue with the wheels themselves (like missing or shifted weight) as the van drives smooth most of the time. Most recent occurrence was on a 120 mile round trip and it did it once, about 20 minutes into the trip, for about a minute, then it stopped. I have heard of ply separation but can it happen intermittently? Also did drop it into Neutral while it was doing it without effect so I figured probably not a motor mount or engine related. Next time it happens I have to verify that it is truly timed to the wheel rotation, and stop to check if any wheels are hot to rule out brake related issues.

Out of round or belt separation do not show up on a balancer, they are entirely different things.

Caliper sticking does not necessarily cause steer pulling - been there twice.

Don't remember exactly if the vibration was intermittent at a constant speed but it varied greatly with speed changes.

The separation vibration was very low grade, a driver not used to the vehicle probably wouldn't have noticed it. I probably never would have done anything if I hadn't tried to get it aligned.

The out of round vibe was much stronger.

cjrusso

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jan 2, 2015

Thanks again for everyone taking the time to write. When it happens it is very noticeable (got my daughter to look up from her book and ask "Should the car be doing this?") . Has not done it in a few days. Will do the brake checks mentioned early on.

Chris

marvinstockman

· #14 · Jan 2, 2015

If you want to be proactive in your troubleshooting, go to a place like Harbor Freight and buy a cheap infrared thermometer. Drive around, using your brakes for fun. Pull over and check rotor temps, as one will certainly be higher than the other.

The infrared thermometers are great for troubleshooting lots of problems, and also finding 'heat leaks' in your house.

gusc

· #15 · Jan 3, 2015

marvinstockman said:
If you want to be proactive in your troubleshooting, go to a place like Harbor Freight and buy a cheap infrared thermometer. Drive around, using your brakes for fun. Pull over and check rotor temps, as one will certainly be higher than the other.

The infrared thermometers are great for troubleshooting lots of problems, and also finding 'heat leaks' in your house.

Just compare the heat between the two sides, there will be a great difference between the two unless both are sticking - very rare.

I could feel the heat with my hand without touching the one wheel.

The melted wheel cover on the other one was a good clue too

Happened about a thousand miles apart.

marvinstockman

· #16 · Jan 4, 2015

GUSC,

When the brakes get hot enough to cause warping and vibration, you don't need a infrared thermometer, but this is not always the case, as his episodes don't happen that often.

What will happen is that one wheel is dragging most of the time, it just doesn't drag enough to cause warping, which is why I suggested purchasing a cheap infrared thermometer.

gusc

· #17 · Jan 7, 2015

marvinstockman said:
GUSC,

When the brakes get hot enough to cause warping and vibration, you don't need a infrared thermometer, but this is not always the case, as his episodes don't happen that often.

What will happen is that one wheel is dragging most of the time, it just doesn't drag enough to cause warping, which is why I suggested purchasing a cheap infrared thermometer.

I didn't post that well. I didn't mean not to purchase the IR gage, just that on my van it was really easy to feel the difference.

I own two of the IR gages, wouldn't be without them for engine work.

shuswap

· #18 · Feb 17, 2017

Old thread, but these symptoms are now happening with my 2005 Grand Caravan also.
Vibration, seems unrelated to brake application or neutral/drive.
Happens at speed, becomes quite a concern, such that I thought I had a flat or separated tire belt.
There is a slight sway of the steering wheel at slow speed, something with one of the front tires I suspect.
Gets worse with increased speed
I do hear a clack when turning
Brakes are fairly similar temp-wise, little hotter on the right-rear drum.
This issue went away for a while in my 2003 drum brake van when I carefully adjusted the rear brakes, loosened them off a tad.
Anybody having a similar issue?

Scott T.

· #19 · 12 mo ago

shuswap said:
Old thread, but these symptoms are now happening with my 2005 Grand Caravan also.
Vibration, seems unrelated to brake application or neutral/drive.
Happens at speed, becomes quite a concern, such that I thought I had a flat or separated tire belt.
There is a slight sway of the steering wheel at slow speed, something with one of the front tires I suspect.
Gets worse with increased speed
I do hear a clack when turning
Brakes are fairly similar temp-wise, little hotter on the right-rear drum.
This issue went away for a while in my 2003 drum brake van when I carefully adjusted the rear brakes, loosened them off a tad.
Anybody having a similar issue?

yep.
2003 t&c.
INTERMITTENT (drives me mad).
vibration feels in the front (wheel?)...
... maybe more on the left (or that's just where i'm sitting &"fee" it).
not noticeably in the steering wheel.
can start soon after beginning a trip... or wait a while... or never happen.
doesn't seem to be speed related... and can also just disappear on its own.

Drunken Elvis

· #20 · 12 mo ago

Next time it happens, pull over and touch the wheels to see if one of your brakes is getting hot.
If it's a minor vibration it could be tire balance. The wheels turn at slightly different speeds. They could come into sync with each other, each only being slightly out of balance or round but when they both or all start to shake the car at the same frequency and time, that's when you feel it. Drive a little more and they go out of sync. It's rare but it can happen.

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