[Long_Voyager94]

Never once said the 3.3/3.8 did not have issues, only noted the 3.0l also had valve stem seal issues which you appear to confirm without acknowledging the 3.0l also had valve stem seal issues.

But then again, I have not blown up 4 engines, in fact not a single one in over 40 years (knock on wood) and have had 3-5 vehicles being maintained at the same time. Had a '97 that went over 290,000 miles, and '04 over 240,000 miles. Have an '02 with 180,000 miles and an '06 with almost 200,000 miles. Totally anecdotal, you bet, but my reality.

I take all of these forums as advice and opinions offered with good intentions to help the DIY'ers to maintain, trouble-shoot and offer real-world tips and suggestions on repairs. Yes, some offering advice may not know where the panel dimmer is but we were all there at some point.

Never denied the 3.0 had issues as well, merely pointing out that the misnomer that only 3.0s suffered oil issues is 100% false as all 3 engines share the same part that contributes to the issue.

The 4 engines I've lost have been due to poor design/common failure points, not due to poor maintenance or abuse. Experiences do differ and no, not everyone will experience these issues, but they do happen. The 3.0s I've owned have always given reliable service for 2-3-400k miles, even under hard abuse. My big question is why the 3.0 gets all the hate while the 3.3/3.8 suffer the same types of issues, along with others?
The 4th gen 3.3/3.8 did sort most of the issues out, this sorting started with the revamp of these engines for the 1998 model year, which makes the 4th gen engines more stout that the previous iterations.

And yes, many here can offer great advice/experience and a few have tackled things some "experts" say are impossible. Unfortunately, when you tell the "experts" they're wrong, they tend to get bent out of shape and give you a ban instead of listening to experience that might go against their own and learn something.

 

[Ivan Caravan]

Some had great luck with the 3.0L I remember a Mechanic saying "I don't know why people are so negative on the 3.0L, mine has been strong". I bought a 1995 Dodge Caravan SE back in 1996 and remember being very happy that the engine was a 3.3L instead of the 3.0L. That 3.3L engine went thousands of miles without an issue for the time I had it and was high miles, over 200,000 km, when I sold it in 2003. The 3.3L 2002 DGC Sport that replaced it went over 370,000 km before it was sold in 2018, still going strong without any issues. Transmissions weren't replaced in either vehicle either.

The Mitsubishi name suffered because of the 2.6L I4 throwing the counter balance chain due to oil starvation, a "new gasket design" related problem, I understand. Otherwise that engine was strong except for cylinder heads/gaskets. I tried out a 1987 Voyager Limited (white, nice dark red interior, wood grained siding) with the 2.6L and the engine seized up during the test drive. Counter balance chain work had been done by the Dealership just prior to that, I'm guessing on a Monday. They put a Chrysler remanufactured 2.6L engine in it and I bought it. Served me well and was replaced by the 1995 DC..

Wow Jeepman you had/have

1987 Voyager Limited
1995 Dodge Caravan SE
2002 GC Sport
2007 GC SXT
2016 GC Crew Plus

You must love these vans even more than me.
Were your 87/95 "SWB" vans?

As to the 3L vs 3.3/3/8L

My 1991 SE shorty had the 3L with the 4-speed auto. I owned it for 20 years but the last 10 years I didn’t put much mileage on it. Still, it had something like 260k kilometers on it when retired. I replaced the starter, alternator, water pump/timing belt. Never touched the heads or bottom end. It did develop the famous tic at start up and it was an oil leaker pretty well all it’s life. It also burned a little oil.

My 2006 SE shorty does not leak or burn oil. No tics or strange sounds from the engine although the pulley system somewhere has a sound. I have all records since new – nothing ever done to the engine or water pump, starter or alternator. Only has 158k kilometers on it.

I’l take the 3.3L over the 3L any day but not saying my 3L was a bad engine other than the leaks.

 

[shipo]

Experience in tearing them apart and comparing internals..... Crazy isn't it, you can tear motors apart and inspect/compare parts, who'd have thought?

So basically since the valve guide seals look similar you think they're the same, even though they are not.

 

[Ivan Caravan]

I ran Mobil 1 0W-40 in all the first three of our 3.8 liter minivans and went somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 miles per oil change. During that time I sent a half-dozen used oil samples out for analysis and they all came back showing even after 12,000 miles the oil was still healthy (but starting to get tired). All three of those vans went well over 200,000 miles and didn't use any more oil when we sold the old girls than they did the day we rolled them off the showroom floor. For our 4th minivan I bought it with just shy of 200,000 miles on the clock, miles which only saw conventional yellow-can Pennzoil in the crank case and miles which saw the van pulling a boat all over California. Yeah, the engine was pretty sludged up; instead of Mobil 1 0W-40 I opted for Shell Rotella T6 5W-40; within 10,000 miles of buying the van the engine was nice and clean inside.

shipo
You had/have 4 Chrysler mini vans?
May I ask which model / trim /year?

 

[shuswap]

The only Dodge v6 engine I ever had to pull the heads on was the 3.0L Mistub. The valve seals were leaking due to the guides wearing prematurely. I think the engine had around 150k km when this became necessary. I also had to do the stupid-stupid-stupidly designed water pipe that runs beneath the intake manifold, front to back, requiring significant disassembly and was fairly costly to fix, gaskets, pipe, water pump, seals, guides, torque to yield bolts, etc...... You can have them! The 3.3 has been much much better, even with much higher mileage on them.

 

[shipo]

shipo
You had/have 4 Chrysler mini vans?
May I ask which model / trim /year?

We've had:

1. 1998 3.8 DGC Sport
2. 1998 3.8 Town & Country LXi
3. 1999 3.8 Town & Country Limited
4. 2003 3.8 DGC ES

Of the four, only the 1998 LXi fall short of 200,000 miles, just barely; my son wrecked it in 2010 when it had a little over 198,000 miles on the clock.

 

[Jeepman]

Wow Jeepman you had/have

1987 Voyager Limited
1995 Dodge Caravan SE
2002 GC Sport
2007 GC SXT
2016 GC Crew Plus

You must love these vans even more than me.
Were your 87/95 "SWB" vans?

I use to rent a vehicle about once a month, back in the 1980s, for work related travel. The rental guy kept offering me the new Chrysler "Magic Wagons" at regular sedan prices. They grew on me pretty quickly, so versatile, so roomy, so much utility. It was my light truck that I didn't want, never had.

Yes, the 1987 and 1995 were SWB. The 1995 started out a dark red/maroon color and ended up with a silver bottom after being stolen and in need of body work/paint. They joy rode it and left it in a pile of bushes in Shubenacadie Park, locally. Traded 4 new wheel disks, I didn't need, for the two tone job. It looked sharp. Besides being stolen, the vehicle was broken into and things stolen another time, also park (different) related.

The 2002 DGC was the best vehicle I ever owned but my 2016 DGC may take over that title.
The 2003 Jeep, with the 4.0L I6, has been a great vehicle as well, with many OE components still in use. No engine or transmission problems. The front sway bar links are the weakest point and they are easy to replace.
The Jeep calls for 10W-30 oil primarily (preferred) with 5W-30 for winter use. I think my 2016 DGC could stand that diet without any issues. The design Engineers are hamstrung to use 5W-20 these days, 0W-16 tomorrow (even now for some models). It reminds of the Limbo Rock song "how low can you goo?". I'm using Super Tech 5W-40 European Formula in the Jeep these days, changing the oil once a year. Sort of an experiment plus the "European" designation. The engine takes no oil between changes, has a 6L fill.

The nutrient composition of European formulas is closer to breast milk and they exclude some ingredients, like corn syrup and guar gum, that just isn't helpful in a baby's first food. European formulas offer a wider variety of organic, nutritious products to meet the unique needs of your baby.

Ooops, Google doesn't read my mind very well.

Why European Vehicles Require Different Oil

Why European Vehicles Require Different Oil - BuyGreatOil.com

European vehicles, in particular, require special oil, and using standard motor oil could cause problems for your car. Learn More.

www.buygreatoil.com

American Engine Oils Harmful To European Engines

USA and Canadian oils don't usually meet European specs, harming engines

Former OEM engineer says most North American oils don't meet European OEM specs, & can damage BMW, VW, Audi, Saab & Mercedes Benz engines

ultimatesyntheticoil.com

Why do European cars use 5w40?
Often, drivers use 0W-40 or 5W-40 to offer the best of both worlds – good cold-flow at startup to protect against wear and good resistance to heat once operating temperatures are reached.

 

[Long_Voyager94]

In no particular order:
1992 Caravan 3.0.
1993 Caravan 3.0.
1994 Caravan 3.0.
1995 Voyager 3.3.
1994 Grand Voyager 3.8.
1998 Grand Caravan 3.8.
2006 Caravan 3.3.
2002 Caravan 3.3.
1996 Voyager 3.0.
2003 Town and Country 3.8.

That's not including those that were only owned short term or those that I worked on for other people.

 

[Cal T&C]

In the commercial trucking industry they send off engine oil samples to labs for analysis.
Might be a good idea to give it a try for a scientific based decision on when to change oil.
I worked at a truck dealership where they used Ford Windstar and Dodge Caravans as chase vehicles.
The schedule was the cheapest conventional motor oils, changed whenever. Well over 300,000 miles on each minivan and no minivan was replaced because of failure of internal engine components.

 

[Oscarphone]

I have been doing extended oil changes on my stuff for about 15 years or maybe more. I consider 75K an "extended" change although some oils now can recommend much higher mileage. The two keys are the quality of the synthetic oil and the filter. I have had problems in the past with Fram filters (in my Lotus) so I stopped using them a long time ago but will go with any good quality brand like Wix, Mobil 1, etc. Oil-wise I have used Modil 1 exclusively until recently when I saw a lab comparison of the various synthetic oil's additive packages. Now I prefer using Penzoil synthetic with Mobil 1 or Costco as my #2 but, really, any synthetic is good stuff and better than dino oil for a number of very good reasons (better heat tolerance, better cold pumpability, better contaminate release, a refined-in viscosity index that will not burn away).

 

[Jeepman]

Pennzoil is the best synthetic oil on the market IMO, or at least the cleanest.

THE PROOF IS IN THE PENNZOIL
Pennzoil Platinum® helps to extend engine life and protect for up to 15 years or 800,000 kilometers whichever comes first. Guaranteed*. How do we do it? Well, Pennzoil is Made from Natural Gas, meaning its base oil is 99.5% free of engine clogging impurities.

So, you believe that additive packages are not all the same, some better than others. Do you think that house brands would have the better additive packages or something that basically meets the specs?

Petroleum's pathway to market can be very .... well, surprising, involved and complicated. Here's the Canadian experience.
Petroleum Products Distribution Networks

Petroleum Products Distribution Networks

www.nrcan.gc.ca

Gasoline, the most visible and widely used of all the products, has the most dispersed distribution network. Before the gasoline leaves the terminal, some gasoline retailers will add performance and detergent additives to distinguish their brand from those of their competitors. The formula for each additive package is unique to that specific brand. As many companies pick up product from the same terminal, the proprietary additives are generally added at the terminal and are the only way to differentiate gasoline at retail outlets.

Somewhere between the base oil manufacturer and the jug on the shelf, or drum in the shop, are the blenders (mixes and additives) and packagers, who may be subcontractors, out to make a buck.

COASTAL Blending & Packaging

COASTAL Blending & Packaging | Irving Oil

www.irvingoil.com

In this case it's a division of Irving Oil but there are many oil blenders listed on the internet.

Examples:

Contract Blending

Contract Blending Full Range of Quality Lubrication Services Forsythe Lubrication is a privately owned, family company that has been manufacturing industrial and automotive fluids and lubricants in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada since 1911. We are an ISO 9001 IATF 16949 certified facility...

forsythelubrication.ca

Brockville Lubricants Plant

Shell's only lubricant oil blending and packaging facility in Canada and is one of the newest in North America.

www.shell.ca

Blenders for Hire - Lubes'N'Greases

Sometimes lubricant suppliers prefer not to be lubricant blenders. In such cases, they turn to toll blenders.

www.lubesngreases.com

 

[reyada476]

Found this online. I wish I could find 5w40 Super Tech oil in the USA. I did notice more blue smoke after the ''diesel oil change'' on the first drive of the day for 10 seconds. I think because it is full synthetic, and it is cold so it flows faster beucase synthtic oil has a higher flow rate and the temps outside are around 30 degrees.

 

[Jeepman]

You should be able to find Super Tech 5W-40 European Formula oil in the US. Made by Warren down there. Here, they seem to run out from time to time.

Amazon has one and it's likely made by Warren, likely identical to Super Tech as well.

Amazon.com: Amazon Basics Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5W-40, Euro Formula, 1 Quart, 6 Pack : Automotive

Buy Amazon Basics Full Synthetic Motor Oil, 5W-40, Euro Formula, 1 Quart, 6 Pack: Motor Oils - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

They seem to be out of it now.

I see Walmart has "10,000 mile" full synthetic oil. Interesting. So much marketing and hype associated with synthetic oil. hard to know what to believe. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff or is it the shaft. My motor oil monitor shows I can get 9600 miles out of conventional oil, although I target for 10,000 km/6,000 miles.

The Project Farm videos are interesting, fairly basic, and meaningful. Todd does a good job and means well.

How about some 15W-40? It's on the shelves.
Whats too cold for 15w-40?

Whats too cold for 15w-40?

With todays modern 15w-40s, what realistically is too cold for this weight oil? Our tractors on the farm have ran 15w-40 thru many a winter, but now this site makes me worry it might not be the best thing. I think reading all this makes me worry too much so I switched over my tractor...

bobistheoilguy.com

Those farmers are tough.

Spit one time and it froze before it hit the ground.

 

[Mopar-Mofun]

Found this online. I wish I could find 5w40 Super Tech oil in the USA. I did notice more blue smoke after the ''diesel oil change'' on the first drive of the day for 10 seconds. I think because it is full synthetic, and it is cold so it flows faster beucase synthtic oil has a higher flow rate and the temps outside are around 30 degrees.

It's been at my local Walmart for years. Both bottle and jugs.

What has disappeared 'mostly', are all of the 0W oils except for the MotorCraft Ford bottles and jugs. Not many either.

Maybe we try SAE80 minus the mineral oil part. Wait, that's 5W30-10W30. hahaha. The 2 oils here are rated on different scales.

 

[Mopar-Mofun]

How about some 15W-40? It's on the shelves.
Whats too cold for 15w-40?

Whats too cold for 15w-40?

With todays modern 15w-40s, what realistically is too cold for this weight oil? Our tractors on the farm have ran 15w-40 thru many a winter, but now this site makes me worry it might not be the best thing. I think reading all this makes me worry too much so I switched over my tractor...

bobistheoilguy.com

Those farmers are tough.

Asian compact tractors sold over here can't handle the 15W40 due to many differences in engine construction to JIS standards, difference in piston and ring weeping design vs. splash design and JIS holds to much tighter tolerances. All to often those engines will fail a shortened life because 15W40 is used vs. 5W30 or 10W30 for diesel.

For our vans, would I use 15W40? Nope. Our minvans already deal with tight tolerances, computer controls, finer micro filters, and oil pump to a certain viscosity. I'll just stay with 5W30 and be happy.

 

[shipo]

For our vans, would I use 15W40? Nope. Our minvans already deal with tight tolerances, computer controls, finer micro filters, and oil pump to a certain viscosity. I'll just stay with 5W30 and be happy.

Hence the fact I used either 0W-40 or 5W-40 in all four of our vans.

 

[Jeepman]

Hence the fact I used either 0W-40 or 5W-40 in all four of our vans.

40? How dare you? Brave man Shipo. Ha, ha.

 

[Mopar-Mofun]

Pennzoil is the best synthetic oil on the market IMO, or at least the cleanest.


So, you believe that additive packages are not all the same, some better than others. Do you think that house brands would have the better additive packages or something that basically meets the specs?

Petroleum's pathway to market can be very .... well, surprising, involved and complicated. Here's the Canadian experience.
Petroleum Products Distribution Networks

Petroleum Products Distribution Networks

www.nrcan.gc.ca

Somewhere between the base oil manufacturer and the jug on the shelf, or drum in the shop, are the blenders (mixes and additives) and packagers, who may be subcontractors, out to make a buck.

Ah ha, now I can BLAME Pennzoil for the worlds shortages of LNG !!! It's hit China, the UK, EU, Canada, and now the New England States working it's way to MICHIGAN right now.

Scroll down to this part of the article too. hahahahaha
One of the most controversial laws in the US is the Merchant Marine Act of 1920, more commonly known as the Jones Act.

New England Is An Energy Crisis Waiting To Happen | ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero

www.zerohedge.com

So, we all love our synthetic oils. But would the LNG still be there to heat our homes this winter or the next ???

 

[Jeepman]

That's an interesting post Mopar-Mofun. The Merchant Marine Act of 1920 sounds contrary to the Trade Agreements. The article was right on, the protestors are in control even if some have no idea of the consequences of their tunnel vision campaigns. Since when did shipping oil from Saudi Arabia become more environmentally friendly than investing in petroleum projects in North America? Those Saudis are laughing all the way to the bank. Maybe, just maybe, the Leadership will learn something from what's going on with Europe's energy crisis.

Down with synthetic oil, it requires too much energy to produce compared to conventional oil. More wasteful too, Owners use it for a few miles in their engines and throw it away. May as well use conventional oil with a good additive package. Ha, ha.

 

[shuswap]

Found this online. I wish I could find 5w40 Super Tech oil in the USA. I did notice more blue smoke after the ''diesel oil change'' on the first drive of the day for 10 seconds. I think because it is full synthetic, and it is cold so it flows faster beucase synthtic oil has a higher flow rate and the temps outside are around 30 degrees.

Be careful not over think this oil thing, pretty easy to go down the rabbit hole. This from someone who has been known to overthink things, like oil.
The 5W-40 will work fine. In my little TDI I ran it up to 10k miles as oil analysis done by others indicated that was a safe range for either the T6 or the Mobil TDT 5w-40. I don't run it that long in my caravan gas engines, or any oil that long.