The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner
61 - 80 of 106 Posts

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,492 Posts
5W-30 will work just fine for the 2001 T&C 3.8L with 182,000 miles. Going up to 5W-40 isn't a big stretch, I used the Super Tech 5W-40 European formula in a 2007 DGC 3.8L for a year. As for flowability, that's pretty much determine by the oil pump. No starvation with a properly operating pumping system. The 30 or 40 will be reached at normal operating temperature, say 200 F. In the winter, the engine could be operating a little cooler (my 2016 DGC seems to and fuel mileage decreases with it) and viscosity would be decreased accordingly In other words the 30 or 40 may not be realized??
.
Diesel Engine Oil: Let’s Talk Viscosity
In 15W-40, the first number on the left (15 here) represents the cold temperature viscosity and contains the letter “W” (which stands for winter, engineers are so creative). The second number to the right (40 in this example) represents the kinematic viscosity at a normal engine operating temperature, usually 100 degrees C.
If you had an electric vehicle in the winter.
For electric vehicles (EVs), fuel economy can drop roughly 39% in mixed city and highway driving, and range can drop by 41%. About two-thirds of the extra energy consumed is used to heat the cabin.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
Three things determine an oil's service life length:
-Operating temperature
-Fluid body size (total quarts/pints)
-Filtration

If the oil capacity is greater than "minimum necessary by design" along with it seeing above standard filtration (Re: fine particle auxiliary oil filter) sufficient cooling w/thermostatic temperature control, then on an engine that runs exceptionally clean with minimal blow-by, you should easily see extended oil change intervals of such length--or greater--without problems. My only additional suggestion: Regularly send in samples of it to be tested, to insure there's nothing to be concerned over and act as a "heads-up" on your engine's condition, so you can catch a breakdown before it happens to catch you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Three things determine an oil's service life length:
-Operating temperature
-Fluid body size (total quarts/pints)
-Filtration

If the oil capacity is greater than "minimum necessary by design" along with it seeing above standard filtration (Re: fine particle auxiliary oil filter) sufficient cooling w/thermostatic temperature control, then on an engine that runs exceptionally clean with minimal blow-by, you should easily see extended oil change intervals of such length--or greater--without problems. My only additional suggestion: Regularly send in samples of it to be tested, to insure there's nothing to be concerned over and act as a "heads-up" on your engine's condition, so you can catch a breakdown before it happens to catch you.
I would add to your three determinants; the additive package.
TBN, for example, can only de-acidify for so long, until depleted.
One of the advantages of the T6 and the TDT oil is they start with a significant base number and usually take longer to become acidic.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
I usually change the oil between 4,000-6000mi. (70 percent highway miles) Synthetic oil will be changed at the 6,000-mile interval. I am trying something new. I was originally going to use Shell Rotella T6 but I can’t find any. So, I am trying the diesel oil form Mobil one. I am not sure if I am throwing money away, but I am hoping to go up to 8,000 mi because I assume the diesel oil has more additives for wear and tear. I want to know your knowledge and opinion if 8,000mi intervals is a bad idea. I know some people use 5w20 on some years, but I think those engines burn a bit of oil. Heck I dont mind using 5w30 cheap oil if it can make it 5,000 miles.
You should be fine for 8,000 miles using the 5W-40 diesel oil in your 4th gen with the 3.8l engine.
Do make sure you change the oil filter at every oil change. The reply where someone suggested changing the oil filter every other oil change is not good advice. Don't put clean oil into an engine with a dirty filter. That's madness. If you want your engine to last as long as possible, change the oil filter at every oil change.

"marvinstockman" mentioned the Mobil 1 extended oil. That is what I recommend as well. Stick to the viscosity that Chrysler states in your owners manual, (I believe your Van should use 5W-30 (correct me if I'm wrong). This is what the engine is designed to use for best results/longevity/lubrication/fuel economy etc. By using the 5W-40 oil, your fuel economy will suffer, as at normal operating temperature, it is a thicker (higher viscosity) oil.

I own a 2004 T&C with the 3.3 L engine. I use "Mobil 1 Extended Performance" oil and Filter. It is rated for 20,000 mile oil change intervals or 1 year (whichever comes first) and my vehicle has 283,000 miles on the original engine. It is my daily driver, and I put about 15,000 miles a year on it, and the head has never been removed.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,492 Posts
The reply where someone suggested changing the oil filter every other oil change is not good advice. Don't put clean oil into an engine with a dirty filter. That's madness. If you want your engine to last as long as possible, change the oil filter at every oil change.

"marvinstockman" mentioned the Mobil 1 extended oil. That is what I recommend as well.

I own a 2004 T&C with the 3.3 L engine. I use "Mobil 1 Extended Performance" oil and Filter. It is rated for 20,000 mile oil change intervals or 1 year (whichever comes first) and my vehicle has 283,000 miles on the original engine. It is my daily driver, and I put about 15,000 miles a year on it, and the head has never been removed.
Cylinder head replacement? What's that and using conventional oil (shame, shame) to boot. :)

You are recommending an oil that doesn't meet Chrysler MS 6395. There are Mobil synthetics that do and will take good care of your engine.

Are you changing your filter at 7,500 miles, it's dirty for the next 7,500 miles? :)

I use the same oil filter for two oil changes. That's not a recommendation, just a statement. Like the oil companies that are promoting 20,000 mile oil change intervals say "always follow the instructions in your Owner's Manual. MS 6395 is in the Owner's Manual.

My thinking re using the same filter for two changes follow:
  • stay away from the 3.6 L's plastic filter housing as much as possible, it breaks.
  • the filter I am using is rated at 15,000 miles, my oil changes are targeted at 6,000+ miles using conventional oil. Why waste a useful filter, wasting oil is bad enough.
  • the oil change monitor will light up after 9,500 miles based on my driving routine (tested once). So my oil life is pretty good on average.
  • an oil filter filters better as it filters longer, up to its useful rated life+. That's not madness.
  • when changing the oil, the oil filter seems empty, nothing is spilling out, some say no anti-drain back valve is present*. Oil flows from outside the cartridge through the media, to the center core, the center core being pretty much open at the bottom. In any event, the dip stick shows new, clean oil. 6 quarts is a lot of oil.

*Pentastar 3.2L and 3.6L 2014 to present. MS-201-BK Cartridge to Spin-on Adapter
Pentastar Cartridge to Spin-On Oil filter adapter fits 2014 + 3.2 and 3.6-liter Pentastar engines. Cartridge Filters have no anti-drainback valve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
snipped...... By using the 5W-40 oil, your fuel economy will suffer, as at normal operating temperature, it is a thicker (higher viscosity) oil.
The difference in viscosity between 5w-30 and 5w-40 in almost nothing, they both will flow like 5w oils. It's the film strength enhancers that increase the equivalent film strength to the 40 weight standard. The fuel economy will remain unchanged. Oil threads are always fun!
 

·
Latent car nut
Joined
·
9,300 Posts
The reply where someone suggested changing the oil filter every other oil change is not good advice. Don't put clean oil into an engine with a dirty filter. That's madness. If you want your engine to last as long as possible, change the oil filter at every oil change.
The point you are missing is, for the Gen 3 and early Gen 4 vans with the larger oil filters, Chrysler recommended replacing the filter every-other oil change; don't believe me? Look it up on the Owner's Manual. Here's the thing, all sieve style filters (which comprise virtually all automotive oil filters) improve their filtration efficiency as they age and trap more particulate matter. Simple truth, the larger the filter, the longer you can go before needing to change it; Chrysler didn't start recommending changing the filter every oil change until the reduced the size of the filter to about that if a teacup.

By using the 5W-40 oil, your fuel economy will suffer, as at normal operating temperature, it is a thicker (higher viscosity) oil.
I switched our vans over to Mobil 1 0W-40 when our 3.8 liter 1998 DGC Sport had about 70,000 miles on the clock and 2003 DGC ES van was new; given I kept copious logs of fuel consumption, I can quite definitively say, if anything, fuel economy improved, even when Ethanol was being introduced to the fuels in our area. Granted, I ascribe the better fuel economy to the loosening up of the engine as opposed to the oil, but 0W-40 certainly didn't reduce the mileage. Then there is my all-time best "road-trip" tanks in the 1998 DGC, of my top 5 road trip single tank distances, all five were run with 0W-40 in the crank case.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
I usually change the oil between 4,000-6000mi. (70 percent highway miles) Synthetic oil will be changed at the 6,000-mile interval. I am trying something new. I was originally going to use Shell Rotella T6 but I can’t find any. So, I am trying the diesel oil form Mobil one. I am not sure if I am throwing money away, but I am hoping to go up to 8,000 mi because I assume the diesel oil has more additives for wear and tear. I want to know your knowledge and opinion if 8,000mi intervals is a bad idea. I know some people use 5w20 on some years, but I think those engines burn a bit of oil. Heck I dont mind using 5w30 cheap oil if it can make it 5,000 miles.
Not sure who says what, but my 2005 Grand Caravan has only used 5W-20 synthetic. At 215,000 miles I can easily change the oil every 7500 miles with no oil added in between changes. Usually down less than 1/2 quart at 7500 mile change.
 

·
Registered
2001 T&C 3.8L 182,000 miles
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter · #69 ·
The point you are missing is, for the Gen 3 and early Gen 4 vans with the larger oil filters, Chrysler recommended replacing the filter every-other oil change; don't believe me? Look it up on the Owner's Manual. Here's the thing, all sieve style filters (which comprise virtually all automotive oil filters) improve their filtration efficiency as they age and trap more particulate matter. Simple truth, the larger the filter, the longer you can go before needing to change it; Chrysler didn't start recommending changing the filter every oil change until the reduced the size of the filter to about that if a teacup.


I switched our vans over to Mobil 1 0W-40 when our 3.8 liter 1998 DGC Sport had about 70,000 miles on the clock and 2003 DGC ES van was new; given I kept copious logs of fuel consumption, I can quite definitively say, if anything, fuel economy improved, even when Ethanol was being introduced to the fuels in our area. Granted, I ascribe the better fuel economy to the loosening up of the engine as opposed to the oil, but 0W-40 certainly didn't reduce the mileage. Then there is my all-time best "road-trip" tanks in the 1998 DGC, of my top 5 road trip single tank distances, all five were run with 0W-40 in the crank case.


so lets say Its summer again. It gets up to 118F sometimes here(47C). Is synthetic 10w40 and 5w40, even15w40 ''better'' in these hot conditions than 0w40? What about heavy towing?? I assume the oils that are syn offer similar protection. I don’t know if the research is out yet for trucks using 0w20 and if they even use 0w16 for heavy towing. I assume the first number affects fuel economy but not by much? Any one log the diffrence in fuel economy? From now on i will use synthetic oil as everone had positve feedback and it is affordable at walmart. Haha this is not as simple as I thought.
 

·
Latent car nut
Joined
·
9,300 Posts
so lets say Its summer again. It gets up to 118F sometimes here(47C). Is synthetic 10w40 and 5w40, even15w40 ''better'' in these hot conditions than 0w40? What about heavy towing?? I assume the oils that are syn offer similar protection. I don’t know if the research is out yet for trucks using 0w20 and if they even use 0w16 for heavy towing. I assume the first number affects fuel economy but not by much? Any one log the diffrence in fuel economy? From now on i will use synthetic oil as everone had positve feedback and it is affordable at walmart. Haha this is not as simple as I thought.
Here's the thing, with 0W-xx synthetic oils available, there is no need for 5W-xx, 10W-xx, 15W-xx oils. Why? Anything a 5W (et al.) oil can do, a fully synthetic 0W oil can do as well as or better. Why? Because the best quality synthetic base oils are so stable they require virtually no VIs (Viscosity Improvers) to allow the oil to meet both the 0W grade specification when cold and the 20, 30, and even 40 grade specification when hot. So why do folks still opt for 5W, 10W and 15W oils? Probably because they don't understand how oil works.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
15 Posts
so lets say Its summer again. It gets up to 118F sometimes here(47C). Is synthetic 10w40 and 5w40, even15w40 ''better'' in these hot conditions than 0w40? What about heavy towing?? I assume the oils that are syn offer similar protection. I don’t know if the research is out yet for trucks using 0w20 and if they even use 0w16 for heavy towing. I assume the first number affects fuel economy but not by much? Any one log the diffrence in fuel economy? From now on i will use synthetic oil as everone had positve feedback and it is affordable at walmart. Haha this is not as simple as I thought.
FWIW 5W20 is what's stamped on the oil cap on my gen 4, so that's what I use. I also suspect that getting a thinner oil pumping quickly to the bearings at startup is the MOST important thing you can do to prolong engine life. Oil quality is so good now that a 20W oil may protect bearings better that a 30W or 40W used to, even in warm weather. Haven't checked to see what the book says about extreme temps like 118F though!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,492 Posts
so lets say Its summer again. It gets up to 118F sometimes here(47C). Is synthetic 10w40 and 5w40, even15w40 ''better'' in these hot conditions than 0w40? What about heavy towing?? I assume the oils that are syn offer similar protection. I don’t know if the research is out yet for trucks using 0w20 and if they even use 0w16 for heavy towing. I assume the first number affects fuel economy but not by much? Any one log the diffrence in fuel economy? From now on i will use synthetic oil as everone had positve feedback and it is affordable at walmart. Haha this is not as simple as I thought.
5W-40 is very European, seems they like higher viscosity and longer oil change intervals than North Americans. They spare no horses. 🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴🐴

Your "not by much" is probably key to the discussion except for one thing, that is, the oil change interval for synthetic oil is longer than for conventional oil BUT conventional oil can go up to 10,000 miles before requiring change, per Chrysler's oil monitoring system. That's long enough for any oil. Ha, ha. Why people change their synthetic oil as if it were motor oil from the 1960s blows my mind (not really :)).

So I start my ice cold engine up, let it idle for a few seconds and take off.
1. Is 0W oil flowing better than 5W oil in my engine? Not by much.
2. Is my engine going to warm up faster? Not by much.
3. Will I get better gas mileage, one way or the other? Not by much.
4. Is my 5W-30 going to get up to 5W-20 viscosity slower/faster? Not by much.
5. Will my 5W-20 flow freer than my 5W-30 at cold startup? Only if my 5W-20 is 4W-20. :)

The additive package in the oil is the savior of the oil as to durability and performance. Some characteristics of a petroleum base oil can be improved by refining it more (synthetic) or putting in additives (conventional). Take your pick, but go synthetic if looking for a very long oil change interval, or a 0W oil. I have never seen a 0W conventional oil.
Note that synthetic oil, even though more highly refined, also has an additive package to get it to meet set standards, including standards for wear. The attention to the anti-wear additive goes up as the The additive package for a motor oil can be 15% to 25% of the total package, so they say. That's a lot, so both synthetic and conventional oils are a blend of petroleum based carriers and a package of goodies to make them work better and to meet standards.

The bottom line is "not by much". :)

Lubricant Additives - A Practical Guide
Lubrication professionals often become very familiar with the base oil viscosity of their lubricants. After all, viscosity is the most important property of a base oil.
 
  • Like
Reactions: reyada476

·
Read Only
Joined
·
38 Posts
"So basically you're throwing away good oil, something which is not good for the environment. If you really care, just send your oil out for analysis after 5,000 miles and read the results, I'll bet you dollars to donuts the report comes back showing the oil is still good to go for many thousands of miles.

As for 5W-20 oil, if you want to use even a better oil, use 0W-20; it flows better when cold (and that holds true regardless of whether it is -20°F or 100°F outside), and protects as well or better when hot. The fact is, there is nothing a 5W-20 oil can do which a 0W-20 oil can do at least as well, if not better.


No, I am not throwing the oil away impacting the environment and I am not paying to send oil out for analysis to see how long it is good for.
The oil gets recycled and is less harmful for the environment than running old oil that creates more harmful emissions.
At 6K miles the oil is very dirty, maybe still useful according to your scientist friends but I am not going to take that chance, you feel free to run your oil for 100K though and then tell us how your engine is still like new.
I run what the factory says to run, I don't listen to people on the internet when they tell me their van has 800,000 miles on it and they only run 0W20 because it flows better even with 18K miles on the oil.
Could you please upload a photo of your vintage oil so we can see how clean and hydrocarbon free it is? Don't cheat and take a photo of new oil.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
38 Posts
All 3 engines share the same hydraulic lifter issues. All 3 share the same poor valve stem seal design that causes oil use.

The 3.0s do tend to need HGs in the early years due to torque issues, but once replaced and torqued to the correct 80 ft-lbs, they never have issue again.

The 3.3/3.8s eat intake gaskets like candy.

The 3.3/3.8s don't take well to being continually abused, whereas the 3.0 not only take well to it, it can handle substantial power increases without opening the motor up.

The 3.3/3.8s PCV system is prone to failure, which will lead to a destroyed engine.

I've had a lot of these vans and a lot of other vehicles with all 3 engines, the 3.0s have always been reliable, even when well over 200k miles, meanwhile I've lost 1/2 a dozen 3.3/3.8s to various causes.

People like to wax poetic about the 3.3/3.8, but in reality, they are no more or less trouble than the 3.0, and they are far less stout if you're hard on vehicles.
The 3.3 and 3.8 do not have the same valve seal issues as the Mitsubishi 3.0 overhead cam engine.
Comparing a 3.3/3.8 to a 3.0 is like comparing apples to watermelons.
Many owners with 3.3/3.8 that have high miles and original gaskets would disagree with you about them eating intake gaskets, you're thinking of the GM 3.1/3.4.
Who continually abuses a minivan? last I knew most people are not getting superchargers or turbo kits for their Town & Country to bring junior to school.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
38 Posts
The point you are missing is, for the Gen 3 and early Gen 4 vans with the larger oil filters, Chrysler recommended replacing the filter every-other oil change; don't believe me? Look it up on the Owner's Manual. Here's the thing, all sieve style filters (which comprise virtually all automotive oil filters) improve their filtration efficiency as they age and trap more particulate matter. Simple truth, the larger the filter, the longer you can go before needing to change it; Chrysler didn't start recommending changing the filter every oil change until the reduced the size of the filter to about that if a teacup.


I switched our vans over to Mobil 1 0W-40 when our 3.8 liter 1998 DGC Sport had about 70,000 miles on the clock and 2003 DGC ES van was new; given I kept copious logs of fuel consumption, I can quite definitively say, if anything, fuel economy improved, even when Ethanol was being introduced to the fuels in our area. Granted, I ascribe the better fuel economy to the loosening up of the engine as opposed to the oil, but 0W-40 certainly didn't reduce the mileage. Then there is my all-time best "road-trip" tanks in the 1998 DGC, of my top 5 road trip single tank distances, all five were run with 0W-40 in the crank case.
Not changing filters every oil change, running extra high miles on oil, remind me not to buy a used vehicle from this guy,
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,492 Posts
Logic versus thinking inside the box. If it's a "run of the mill" filter, maybe change it every 1,000 miles. Why not? Or get some 20,000 mile oil and change the filter every 10,000 miles. Why not? There are different oil filter specs, check the oil filter out as to what it's rated for and by whom (reputable brand). Go from there. Why not? To each his own when it comes to oil/filter changes. I use mostly Brand name oils (Valvoline conventional often). Super Tech rates well. Why not? It's a personal choice.
Now for the rocket science. :)
Double oil changes with one oil filter It can be done with the right filter
 
  • Like
Reactions: reyada476

·
Read Only
Joined
·
38 Posts
Logic versus thinking inside the box. If it's a "run of the mill" filter, maybe change it every 1,000 miles. Why not? Or get some 20,000 mile oil and change the filter every 10,000 miles. Why not? There are different oil filter specs, check the oil filter out as to what it's rated for and by whom (reputable brand). Go from there. Why not? To each his own when it comes to oil/filter changes. I use mostly Brand name oils (Valvoline conventional often). Super Tech rates well. Why not? It's a personal choice.
Now for the rocket science. :)
Double oil changes with one oil filter It can be done with the right filter
Run clean oil through a dirty filter, why not? Trust manufacturers that claim their oil can last 20K miles, why not.
Not rocket science just common sense, do you also put your dirty clothes back on after a shower because the manufacturer claims the material can hold more dirt?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
28,492 Posts
Run clean oil through a dirty filter, why not? Trust manufacturers that claim their oil can last 20K miles, why not.
Not rocket science just common sense, do you also put your dirty clothes back on after a shower because the manufacturer claims the material can hold more dirt?
:) An oil filter is only new the day it's installed. The next day it can't be sold as a new filter. The rest of its life is spent catching dirt, i.e. a dirty filter. How much it can collect depends on its design. Run of the mill filters don' tend to get as dirty as high end filter because they are less efficient at filtering (90% vs 99.9% at 20 microns) . Check micron ratings and efficiency as well as dirt holding capacity, if available.
Nothing wrong with wearing dirty clothes, they're more wind resistant. :) My work clothes get dirty but aren't washed that often, water conservation. Grease isn't good for the septic tank, neither is bleach. They say some people wash their hands too often, don't build up immunity, that's why they get more colds. Don't know, can't say. There are many ways to look at things.

.
 

·
Read Only
Joined
·
38 Posts
:) An oil filter is only new the day it's installed. The next day it can't be sold as a new filter. The rest of its life is spent catching dirt, i.e. a dirty filter. How much it can collect depends on its design. Run of the mill filters don' tend to get as dirty as high end filter because they are less efficient at filtering (90% vs 99.9% at 20 microns) . Check micron ratings and efficiency as well as dirt holding capacity, if available.
Nothing wrong with wearing dirty clothes, they're more wind resistant. :) My work clothes get dirty but aren't washed that often. Grease isn't good for the septic tank, neither is bleach. They say some people wash their hands too often, don't build up immunity, that's why they get more colds. Don't know, can't say. There are many ways to look at things.

.
Yep it is only new the day it is put in, so is the oil.
No excuse to reuse the old one when they are so cheap.
With all of the problems Chrysler engines are prone to the last thing I am going to do is contribute to them by saving money going too long on oil or reusing a dirty filter.
 
61 - 80 of 106 Posts
Top