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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I agree. And he doesn’t cuss and use profanity. I replaced a 3.6 head with his videos/ plus.
I have been try to find someone that has done this repair. I had the dealership do the repair since I don't have a garage. However something doesn't look right I found the wiring harness not put back right and something is out of order with the radiator hose, intake bracket mounts and the oil dipstick tube. After about 50 miles I had code P0420 come on for the cat so while looking to see if they plugged in the O2 sensors I discovered these things and notice dents on the flange to the cat. They used R362011AA cylinder head
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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
I have a 2011 Town and country and had to replace the left head due to bad exhaust valves. I have been trying to find someone that has done this repair before. I had the dealership do the repair since I don't have a garage. However something doesn't look right I found the wiring harness not put back right and something is out of order with the radiator hose, intake brackets and the oil dipstick tube. Then after about 50 miles I had code P0420 come on for the cat so while looking to see if they plugged in the O2 sensors I discovered these things and notice dents on the flange to the cat. They used R362011AA cylinder head and set me back over 4,800.00.
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This was a dealership? Sloppy work! Was it covered under warranty, since the early Pentastars had a problem with one of the heads? Take it back, and complain about the cat converter code because if they hammered on it to get it back in, they might have damaged it and just ruined it for you. Those are expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yes, the dealership. I filed for reimbursement but have not heard back yet. The van has 113,000 miles on it and the warranty is 10 years or 150,000 miles. We are under mileage but 10 months past the 10 year. I hope to argue the fact that my wife uses the van to deliver wedding cakes and since the wedding industry was shutdown for sometime due to large gatherings it didn't happen until this year. If she was able to deliver cakes then this would have happened within the 10 year time frame. We have only had the van for 4 years and it stinks to be hit with such a costly repair. I have called around and talked with other dealerships and they said the job is a 14-16 hour job and labor should be around 2600 - 2800 not 3600. They also told me the service department reps works on commission. When I talked to the rep and gave him the code he said it was due to me driving it with the bad cylinder and I needed a new cat. That code has never been on and strange it came on after the repair. If the work I can see looks sloppy than what about the work I can't see?
 

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Take it back and tell them they need to finish the job. Looks like the gasket may be twisted. Is it louder than normal?
 

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Threaten Small Claims Court if they continue to dismiss your claim.
Yes, Service Managers (some) get their paycheck based on commissions. Mechanics could be part of the program.
Don't be distracted by that. Stick with your objective to get compensation and proper repairs. What's the Dealership's warranty policy.
Have you contacted Chrysler Cares?
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Not about the work done but about getting reimbursed for the left cylinder. At first they wouldn't even let me apply though two customer service people at Chrysler Cares told me I could. They told me the only way I could possibly get reimburse was to have the dealership do it. I could have had the job done by another independent shop for 2800 parts and labor with 1 year labor and whatever Mopar gives on the part. The service rep convinced me they would do a better job and I would be covered for the two years.
The other dealerships I called today said the labor cost I was charged was for labor on both heads and it would be price gouging for one. The rep that did the work told me they charged 175.00 an hour and everyone I talked to said it's a 14 - 16 hour job so even at 16 hours it would be 2800 labor. The other dealerships I talked to charged less than 150 an hour.
The service rep told me he has been doing this over 25 years so I don't think the labor cost I was charged was by accident. The service rep told me I was covered for two years parts and labor but looking at the receipt it says 90 days on labor. I'm going to ask on Monday when I take it back up there. I'm thinking I should just talk to the service manager and not talk to the same guy again. He's lied several times the first thigs I noticed when I got the van back was the the radiator bottle left open and oil on my floor mat from boots. I showed it to him and he said they were out of them when I dropped my car off but I remembered seeing them. He offered to clean the mat and and the oily hand prints off the hood and finders but I had to go get my daughter from school.
 

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Yes, definitely go higher up, higher than the service manager. Sounds like you're getting jerked around. The company may have quality customer relations at some level.
Mopar parts often carry two year warranty.
Here I believe the Dealership provides a three year warranty, whatever that means. I'll check that out.
A path to follow needs to be worked out to get results. You definitely have a case.
 

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The pics you provided show that the intake is missing some mounting hardware. It looks like they didn’t install the intake manifold properly.

The intake manifold has two studs in the front and they slide into two brackets near the front (radiator side) of the van. Once the studs go into the bracket holes, they are fastened together with nuts. If the intake was installed improperly, maybe it could be leaking. Extra oxygen entering the system could be causing the p0420 code.

Tell them to install the intake properly first, that might be causing the code. It seems that this dealer is shady. Lying and doing low quality work. I agree that you should get Chrysler cares involved, if needed.
 

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Looks like the exhaust to head gasket. On the left bolt in your pic it looks like the gasket is twisted between the pipe and head. If it were on flat and tight, it shouldn't look like that.

A growl isn't how I'd expect a leak like that to sound like though. It would be more of a pfft pfft pftt, a kind of popping/tapping noise. You can check by feeling around the flange while someone revs the engine. I'd recommend doing this on its first start of the day so the pipe isn't hot. And do it quickly, because it warms up fast.

It just occurred to me that the side the code is for is the other side. Rear head is #1, front is #2. P0420 is a bank 1 code. Near impossible to reach that pipe with the intake on, so not very likely you could feel a leak, but you could still see if it's there by listening for the noise. Most likely, since they worked on the front head, the problem is with the lower exhaust crossover gasket where it meets the back converter. That's on the bottom behind the oil pan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The pics you provided show that the intake is missing some mounting hardware. It looks like they didn’t install the intake manifold properly.

The intake manifold has two studs in the front and they slide into two brackets near the front (radiator side) of the van. Once the studs go into the bracket holes, they are fastened together with nuts. If the intake was installed improperly, maybe it could be leaking. Extra oxygen entering the system could be causing the p0420 code.

Tell them to install the intake properly first, that might be causing the code. It seems that this dealer is shady. Lying and doing low quality work. I agree that you should get Chrysler cares involved, if needed.
Right I've Removed the intake before to replace the plugs, coil packs and injectors. I just didn't know if replacing the head made those brackets obsolete. I think the dipstick tube is bent and the radiator hose is on the wrong side of it.
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Looks like the exhaust to head gasket. On the left bolt in your pic it looks like the gasket is twisted between the pipe and head. If it were on flat and tight, it shouldn't look like that.

A growl isn't how I'd expect a leak like that to sound like though. It would be more of a pfft pfft pftt, a kind of popping/tapping noise. You can check by feeling around the flange while someone revs the engine. I'd recommend doing this on its first start of the day so the pipe isn't hot. And do it quickly, because it warms up fast.

It just occurred to me that the side the code is for is the other side. Rear head is #1, front is #2. P0420 is a bank 1 code. Near impossible to reach that pipe with the intake on, so not very likely you could feel a leak, but you could still see if it's there by listening for the noise. Most likely, since they worked on the front head, the problem is with the lower exhaust crossover gasket where it meets the back converter. That's on the bottom behind the oil pan.
can it be an intake manifold leak? I think they bent the dipstick tube and the radiator hose is on the wrong side of the tube. I don't understand why the intake manifold studs don't reach the brackets on the head.


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"I think the dipstick tube is bent and the radiator hose is on the wrong side of it."
Yes, the dipstick should be out front. Poor, poor workmanship. Maybe they farmed the work out at a reduced rate or put a "new hire" on the job. Neither is acceptable. Document it well.

Check the engine cover (are the 4 inserts in gromets properly) and the air filter cover (3 tabs in back should be in slots). Shops can mess up both items based on my experience.
 

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Maybe. Could you post a video or sound clip?
 

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I agree on going higher up, or getting a lawyer. This dealership screwed up bigtime, and if that is their usual way of business they should be reported. We have a forum section just for giving feedback on dealerships to recommend or avoid.

I do my own work, but even I mess up sometimes. I replaced the spark plugs in our 2011 Toyota Sienna before a long vacation trip. I had to loosen the air filter box to pull the air intake hose from the throttle body to remove the intake plenum. I thought the holes seemed hard to realign when putting the air box bolts back in, but they did go in and I tightened them down. While on our trip towing a trailer through the mountains, the check engine light came on and it was down on power. I had to rev at 5 or 6K to keep up with traffic uphill! Got to the motel that night and started researching the symptom. People were saying the MAF sensor could cause it. The next morning I opened the hood, looked at the airbox and noticed the intake hose was pulled partly off of the airbox side. Oops! :whistle: My bad! I felt around under the air box and felt a peg under it that went into a hole in a bracket - the box was not where it should have been. So, I took out a few bolts and reseated the box and made it right. Learning experience. Plugs are changed every 100,000 miles so they'd never been done, and who knows if I'll ever have to do it again?

I also learned not to use 85 octane in fuel injected vehicles. The cheap fuel was my first suspect, so we started putting 89 or 91 octane in the day it was happening and it helped a little. Wife googled it and 85 octane is mainly for carbureted engines used in higher altitudes. I'm glad it didn't damage the engine! It runs great after correcting my mistake. 😂

Hopefully the same thing is happening with that intake plenum not mounted properly, causing the code. I never did check what my codes were, as the cause was right there and I had to disconnect the battery anyway to move the airbox. Didn't get any more lights or codes the rest of the trip, from Wyoming to home.
 

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I've combined posts from the two threads discussing this topic, therefore some posts in this thread may seem to be duplicates and or out of place. I also moved this thread to the 5th generation forum.
 

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Good move georgeef. Thanks.

I was just looking at my engine bay.

The oil dipstick tube is very rigidly secured, likely a bracket down below which would be typical. The one in the photos is not installed properly at all. It should not be so close to the engine cover, in fact it should be outside the radiator hose.
1. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

The space between the plastic studs and the metal brackets may be due to a very, very thick foam gasket in the space, that needs to be compressed. In any event it is wrong, wrong.
2. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Obviously parts left over. No excuse for that.
3. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Three strikes, they're out. Shouldn't be a Dealership or a repair shop.. Trained automotive Technicians? or graduates from The College For Chicken Knowledge. :)

Charge was for two heads, rather than one.
4. looked it up in their book for labor times, made a mistake or fraudulent attempt. My guess is the latter. See below as to what can happen at Dealerships, including Chrysler Dealerships. This could be criminal.

Fraudulent attempt, yes, I experienced one recently, would have cost me a lot of $, except I declined the attempt, and the Dealership corrected accordingly. They replaced a lock actuator under extended warranty $0.00, originally tried to charge me for a very expensive latch. Information from this Forum helped me in that situation. It happens. Watch out for it under extended warranties where neither the Dealership, nor the Manufacturer, like the reduced labor rate or extra costs.

You think I sound critical, take a look.

I think the OP can make lemonade out of this one in Small Claims Court considering:
  • repair should have been covered by the extended warranty. Time penalty should be waived because of COVID. It's a problem prone engine, with well documented valve train problems, to be addressed by somebody (why should the Customer pay for Chrysler's shortcomings?). Chrysler can't dismiss their responsibility that easily considering how highly misleading (confidence building, receiving awards) the advertising for this engine was.
  • the repair, if it was even ever completely done, was carried out so carelessly and overpriced, that there's no confidence that any of it was done properly. Gaskets installed properly, bolts torqued to spec? Yeah, right, pictures don't lie.
  • R362011AA cylinder head?? Checked rockauto.com. Part #R3620113AA .
  • there are damages that need to be addressed
Give Chrysler a chance to address them, and take it from there. They have a poor performing Dealership to correct, if Chrysler Cares. Also, I'm sure the Dealership wouldn't like those pictures floating around.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Good move georgeef. Thanks.

I was just looking at my engine bay.

The oil dipstick tube is very rigidly secured, likely a bracket down below which would be typical. The one in the photos is not installed properly at all. It should not be so close to the engine cover, in fact it should be outside the radiator hose.
1. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

The space between the plastic studs and the metal brackets may be due to a very, very thick foam gasket in the space, that needs to be compressed. In any event it is wrong, wrong.
2. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Obviously parts left over. No excuse for that.
3. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Three strikes, they're out. Shouldn't be a Dealership or a repair shop.. Trained automotive Technicians? or graduates from The College For Chicken Knowledge. :)

Charge was for two heads, rather than one.
4. looked it up in their book for labor times, made a mistake or fraudulent attempt. My guess is the latter. See below as to what can happen at Dealerships, including Chrysler Dealerships. This could be criminal.

Fraudulent attempt, yes, I experienced one recently, would have cost me a lot of $, except I declined the attempt, and the Dealership corrected accordingly. They replaced a lock actuator under extended warranty $0.00, originally tried to charge me for a very expensive latch. Information from this Forum helped me in that situation. It happens. Watch out for it under extended warranties where neither the Dealership, nor the Manufacturer, like the reduced labor rate or extra costs.

You think I sound critical, take a look.

I think the OP can make lemonade out of this one in Small Claims Court considering:
  • repair should have been covered by the extended warranty. Time penalty should be waived because of COVID. It's a problem prone engine, with well documented valve train problems, to be addressed by somebody (why should the Customer pay for Chrysler's shortcomings?). Chrysler can't dismiss their responsibility that easily considering how highly misleading (confidence building, receiving awards) the advertising for this engine was.
  • the repair, if it was even ever completely done, was carried out so carelessly and overpriced, that there's no confidence that any of it was done properly. Gaskets installed properly, bolts torqued to spec? Yeah, right, pictures don't lie.
  • R362011AA cylinder head?? Checked rockauto.com. Part #R3620113AA .
  • there are damages that need to be addressed
Give Chrysler a chance to address them, and take it from there. They have a poor performing Dealership to correct, if Chrysler Cares. Also, I'm sure the Dealership wouldn't like those pictures floating around.
The c
I agree on going higher up, or getting a lawyer. This dealership screwed up bigtime, and if that is their usual way of business they should be reported. We have a forum section just for giving feedback on dealerships to recommend or avoid.

I do my own work, but even I mess up sometimes. I replaced the spark plugs in our 2011 Toyota Sienna before a long vacation trip. I had to loosen the air filter box to pull the air intake hose from the throttle body to remove the intake plenum. I thought the holes seemed hard to realign when putting the air box bolts back in, but they did go in and I tightened them down. While on our trip towing a trailer through the mountains, the check engine light came on and it was down on power. I had to rev at 5 or 6K to keep up with traffic uphill! Got to the motel that night and started researching the symptom. People were saying the MAF sensor could cause it. The next morning I opened the hood, looked at the airbox and noticed the intake hose was pulled partly off of the airbox side. Oops! :whistle: My bad! I felt around under the air box and felt a peg under it that went into a hole in a bracket - the box was not where it should have been. So, I took out a few bolts and reseated the box and made it right. Learning experience. Plugs are changed every 100,000 miles so they'd never been done, and who knows if I'll ever have to do it again?

I also learned not to use 85 octane in fuel injected vehicles. The cheap fuel was my first suspect, so we started putting 89 or 91 octane in the day it was happening and it helped a little. Wife googled it and 85 octane is mainly for carbureted engines used in higher altitudes. I'm glad it didn't damage the engine! It runs great after correcting my mistake. 😂

Hopefully the same thing is happening with that intake plenum not mounted properly, causing the code. I never did check what my codes were, as the cause was right there and I had to disconnect the battery anyway to move the airbox. Didn't get any more lights or codes the rest of the trip, from Wyoming to home.
I had two coil packs fail while towing our popup in the mountains in North Carolina. I had to change them and a fuel injector in a parking lot. I learned not to buy Mopar parts off of eBay, I believe they were counterfeits from China and Mopar wouldn't warranty them.
 
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