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Left cylinder head replacement by Dealership.

5K views 44 replies 10 participants last post by  shuswap 
#1 ·
I agree. And he doesn’t cuss and use profanity. I replaced a 3.6 head with his videos/ plus.
I have been try to find someone that has done this repair. I had the dealership do the repair since I don't have a garage. However something doesn't look right I found the wiring harness not put back right and something is out of order with the radiator hose, intake bracket mounts and the oil dipstick tube. After about 50 miles I had code P0420 come on for the cat so while looking to see if they plugged in the O2 sensors I discovered these things and notice dents on the flange to the cat. They used R362011AA cylinder head
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#2 · (Edited)
I have a 2011 Town and country and had to replace the left head due to bad exhaust valves. I have been trying to find someone that has done this repair before. I had the dealership do the repair since I don't have a garage. However something doesn't look right I found the wiring harness not put back right and something is out of order with the radiator hose, intake brackets and the oil dipstick tube. Then after about 50 miles I had code P0420 come on for the cat so while looking to see if they plugged in the O2 sensors I discovered these things and notice dents on the flange to the cat. They used R362011AA cylinder head and set me back over 4,800.00.
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#3 ·
This was a dealership? Sloppy work! Was it covered under warranty, since the early Pentastars had a problem with one of the heads? Take it back, and complain about the cat converter code because if they hammered on it to get it back in, they might have damaged it and just ruined it for you. Those are expensive.
 
#4 ·
Yes, the dealership. I filed for reimbursement but have not heard back yet. The van has 113,000 miles on it and the warranty is 10 years or 150,000 miles. We are under mileage but 10 months past the 10 year. I hope to argue the fact that my wife uses the van to deliver wedding cakes and since the wedding industry was shutdown for sometime due to large gatherings it didn't happen until this year. If she was able to deliver cakes then this would have happened within the 10 year time frame. We have only had the van for 4 years and it stinks to be hit with such a costly repair. I have called around and talked with other dealerships and they said the job is a 14-16 hour job and labor should be around 2600 - 2800 not 3600. They also told me the service department reps works on commission. When I talked to the rep and gave him the code he said it was due to me driving it with the bad cylinder and I needed a new cat. That code has never been on and strange it came on after the repair. If the work I can see looks sloppy than what about the work I can't see?
 
#5 ·
Take it back and tell them they need to finish the job. Looks like the gasket may be twisted. Is it louder than normal?
 
#6 ·
Threaten Small Claims Court if they continue to dismiss your claim.
Yes, Service Managers (some) get their paycheck based on commissions. Mechanics could be part of the program.
Don't be distracted by that. Stick with your objective to get compensation and proper repairs. What's the Dealership's warranty policy.
Have you contacted Chrysler Cares?
 
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#8 ·
Not about the work done but about getting reimbursed for the left cylinder. At first they wouldn't even let me apply though two customer service people at Chrysler Cares told me I could. They told me the only way I could possibly get reimburse was to have the dealership do it. I could have had the job done by another independent shop for 2800 parts and labor with 1 year labor and whatever Mopar gives on the part. The service rep convinced me they would do a better job and I would be covered for the two years.
The other dealerships I called today said the labor cost I was charged was for labor on both heads and it would be price gouging for one. The rep that did the work told me they charged 175.00 an hour and everyone I talked to said it's a 14 - 16 hour job so even at 16 hours it would be 2800 labor. The other dealerships I talked to charged less than 150 an hour.
The service rep told me he has been doing this over 25 years so I don't think the labor cost I was charged was by accident. The service rep told me I was covered for two years parts and labor but looking at the receipt it says 90 days on labor. I'm going to ask on Monday when I take it back up there. I'm thinking I should just talk to the service manager and not talk to the same guy again. He's lied several times the first thigs I noticed when I got the van back was the the radiator bottle left open and oil on my floor mat from boots. I showed it to him and he said they were out of them when I dropped my car off but I remembered seeing them. He offered to clean the mat and and the oily hand prints off the hood and finders but I had to go get my daughter from school.
 
#9 ·
Yes, definitely go higher up, higher than the service manager. Sounds like you're getting jerked around. The company may have quality customer relations at some level.
Mopar parts often carry two year warranty.
Here I believe the Dealership provides a three year warranty, whatever that means. I'll check that out.
A path to follow needs to be worked out to get results. You definitely have a case.
 
#10 ·
The pics you provided show that the intake is missing some mounting hardware. It looks like they didn’t install the intake manifold properly.

The intake manifold has two studs in the front and they slide into two brackets near the front (radiator side) of the van. Once the studs go into the bracket holes, they are fastened together with nuts. If the intake was installed improperly, maybe it could be leaking. Extra oxygen entering the system could be causing the p0420 code.

Tell them to install the intake properly first, that might be causing the code. It seems that this dealer is shady. Lying and doing low quality work. I agree that you should get Chrysler cares involved, if needed.
 
#12 ·
The pics you provided show that the intake is missing some mounting hardware. It looks like they didn’t install the intake manifold properly.

The intake manifold has two studs in the front and they slide into two brackets near the front (radiator side) of the van. Once the studs go into the bracket holes, they are fastened together with nuts. If the intake was installed improperly, maybe it could be leaking. Extra oxygen entering the system could be causing the p0420 code.

Tell them to install the intake properly first, that might be causing the code. It seems that this dealer is shady. Lying and doing low quality work. I agree that you should get Chrysler cares involved, if needed.
Right I've Removed the intake before to replace the plugs, coil packs and injectors. I just didn't know if replacing the head made those brackets obsolete. I think the dipstick tube is bent and the radiator hose is on the wrong side of it.
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#11 ·
Looks like the exhaust to head gasket. On the left bolt in your pic it looks like the gasket is twisted between the pipe and head. If it were on flat and tight, it shouldn't look like that.

A growl isn't how I'd expect a leak like that to sound like though. It would be more of a pfft pfft pftt, a kind of popping/tapping noise. You can check by feeling around the flange while someone revs the engine. I'd recommend doing this on its first start of the day so the pipe isn't hot. And do it quickly, because it warms up fast.

It just occurred to me that the side the code is for is the other side. Rear head is #1, front is #2. P0420 is a bank 1 code. Near impossible to reach that pipe with the intake on, so not very likely you could feel a leak, but you could still see if it's there by listening for the noise. Most likely, since they worked on the front head, the problem is with the lower exhaust crossover gasket where it meets the back converter. That's on the bottom behind the oil pan.
 
#14 ·
"I think the dipstick tube is bent and the radiator hose is on the wrong side of it."
Yes, the dipstick should be out front. Poor, poor workmanship. Maybe they farmed the work out at a reduced rate or put a "new hire" on the job. Neither is acceptable. Document it well.

Check the engine cover (are the 4 inserts in gromets properly) and the air filter cover (3 tabs in back should be in slots). Shops can mess up both items based on my experience.
 
#16 ·
I agree on going higher up, or getting a lawyer. This dealership screwed up bigtime, and if that is their usual way of business they should be reported. We have a forum section just for giving feedback on dealerships to recommend or avoid.

I do my own work, but even I mess up sometimes. I replaced the spark plugs in our 2011 Toyota Sienna before a long vacation trip. I had to loosen the air filter box to pull the air intake hose from the throttle body to remove the intake plenum. I thought the holes seemed hard to realign when putting the air box bolts back in, but they did go in and I tightened them down. While on our trip towing a trailer through the mountains, the check engine light came on and it was down on power. I had to rev at 5 or 6K to keep up with traffic uphill! Got to the motel that night and started researching the symptom. People were saying the MAF sensor could cause it. The next morning I opened the hood, looked at the airbox and noticed the intake hose was pulled partly off of the airbox side. Oops! :whistle: My bad! I felt around under the air box and felt a peg under it that went into a hole in a bracket - the box was not where it should have been. So, I took out a few bolts and reseated the box and made it right. Learning experience. Plugs are changed every 100,000 miles so they'd never been done, and who knows if I'll ever have to do it again?

I also learned not to use 85 octane in fuel injected vehicles. The cheap fuel was my first suspect, so we started putting 89 or 91 octane in the day it was happening and it helped a little. Wife googled it and 85 octane is mainly for carbureted engines used in higher altitudes. I'm glad it didn't damage the engine! It runs great after correcting my mistake. 😂

Hopefully the same thing is happening with that intake plenum not mounted properly, causing the code. I never did check what my codes were, as the cause was right there and I had to disconnect the battery anyway to move the airbox. Didn't get any more lights or codes the rest of the trip, from Wyoming to home.
 
#17 ·
I've combined posts from the two threads discussing this topic, therefore some posts in this thread may seem to be duplicates and or out of place. I also moved this thread to the 5th generation forum.
 
#18 ·
Good move georgeef. Thanks.

I was just looking at my engine bay.

The oil dipstick tube is very rigidly secured, likely a bracket down below which would be typical. The one in the photos is not installed properly at all. It should not be so close to the engine cover, in fact it should be outside the radiator hose.
1. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

The space between the plastic studs and the metal brackets may be due to a very, very thick foam gasket in the space, that needs to be compressed. In any event it is wrong, wrong.
2. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Obviously parts left over. No excuse for that.
3. very bad work, done in a hurry without due diligence, or by untrained Staff. No attention to detail.

Three strikes, they're out. Shouldn't be a Dealership or a repair shop.. Trained automotive Technicians? or graduates from The College For Chicken Knowledge. :)

Charge was for two heads, rather than one.
4. looked it up in their book for labor times, made a mistake or fraudulent attempt. My guess is the latter. See below as to what can happen at Dealerships, including Chrysler Dealerships. This could be criminal.

Fraudulent attempt, yes, I experienced one recently, would have cost me a lot of $, except I declined the attempt, and the Dealership corrected accordingly. They replaced a lock actuator under extended warranty $0.00, originally tried to charge me for a very expensive latch. Information from this Forum helped me in that situation. It happens. Watch out for it under extended warranties where neither the Dealership, nor the Manufacturer, like the reduced labor rate or extra costs.

You think I sound critical, take a look.


I think the OP can make lemonade out of this one in Small Claims Court considering:
  • repair should have been covered by the extended warranty. Time penalty should be waived because of COVID. It's a problem prone engine, with well documented valve train problems, to be addressed by somebody (why should the Customer pay for Chrysler's shortcomings?). Chrysler can't dismiss their responsibility that easily considering how highly misleading (confidence building, receiving awards) the advertising for this engine was.
  • the repair, if it was even ever completely done, was carried out so carelessly and overpriced, that there's no confidence that any of it was done properly. Gaskets installed properly, bolts torqued to spec? Yeah, right, pictures don't lie.
  • R362011AA cylinder head?? Checked rockauto.com. Part #R3620113AA .
  • there are damages that need to be addressed
Give Chrysler a chance to address them, and take it from there. They have a poor performing Dealership to correct, if Chrysler Cares. Also, I'm sure the Dealership wouldn't like those pictures floating around.
 
#20 ·
The c
I agree on going higher up, or getting a lawyer. This dealership screwed up bigtime, and if that is their usual way of business they should be reported. We have a forum section just for giving feedback on dealerships to recommend or avoid.

I do my own work, but even I mess up sometimes. I replaced the spark plugs in our 2011 Toyota Sienna before a long vacation trip. I had to loosen the air filter box to pull the air intake hose from the throttle body to remove the intake plenum. I thought the holes seemed hard to realign when putting the air box bolts back in, but they did go in and I tightened them down. While on our trip towing a trailer through the mountains, the check engine light came on and it was down on power. I had to rev at 5 or 6K to keep up with traffic uphill! Got to the motel that night and started researching the symptom. People were saying the MAF sensor could cause it. The next morning I opened the hood, looked at the airbox and noticed the intake hose was pulled partly off of the airbox side. Oops! :whistle: My bad! I felt around under the air box and felt a peg under it that went into a hole in a bracket - the box was not where it should have been. So, I took out a few bolts and reseated the box and made it right. Learning experience. Plugs are changed every 100,000 miles so they'd never been done, and who knows if I'll ever have to do it again?

I also learned not to use 85 octane in fuel injected vehicles. The cheap fuel was my first suspect, so we started putting 89 or 91 octane in the day it was happening and it helped a little. Wife googled it and 85 octane is mainly for carbureted engines used in higher altitudes. I'm glad it didn't damage the engine! It runs great after correcting my mistake. 😂

Hopefully the same thing is happening with that intake plenum not mounted properly, causing the code. I never did check what my codes were, as the cause was right there and I had to disconnect the battery anyway to move the airbox. Didn't get any more lights or codes the rest of the trip, from Wyoming to home.
I had two coil packs fail while towing our popup in the mountains in North Carolina. I had to change them and a fuel injector in a parking lot. I learned not to buy Mopar parts off of eBay, I believe they were counterfeits from China and Mopar wouldn't warranty them.
 
#22 ·
Good luck. Stay objective and deliberate, be civil, they will try to weasel out, most likely. Speak with somebody that has authority (nobody else will do). Know what to expect going in. Your $ counts. Your $ is your Client. It expects value, not rip-off. :)
 
#23 · (Edited)
Update: The service manager knew I was coming. She said that she got an email this morning saying there was an unhappy customer that might come in. She had my name and information and said when I called the other dealerships they sent out an email to notify other dealerships in the area. I guess they got my information from my phone number because I never told anyone my name.
They had me go back with the service rep and the lead mechanic and fix all the issues. The service rep was not happy that I went to the manager. The the C.C code went off on it's own this morning and with the dents on the flange of the C.C they told me they had to knock them back in place on the head that's the only way to get it down in the clamp on the head. I don't know why they couldn't use a piece of wood or hard plastic then. I think they just loosen up the nuts on the bracket from the head to the intake manifold to put them back on. What ever they did took almost 3 hours and I asked about the labor, their response was they use ProDemand and another program and compare it to Chrysler warranty and that sets the price for the job. Does anyone on this forum have this software? It has a 3 month free trial but I don't want to get stuck paying 174.00 month for the next 12 months. It doesn't make since to me they say their labor cost is 175.50 an hour and the book says the job is 14-16 hours but they don't go buy that they go buy a program that gives them a set price.
I summited the invoice to Chrysler for reimbursement on the head and if it's off than I'm sure they will say something about it. That dealership and Chrysler have their problems as well. The manager told me they had 4 techs call out sick today and have one customer in a rental car for almost 80 days because they can't get the part. She said Chrysler can't get parts made so they are buying aftermarket parts and putting the two year warranty on them. They did tell me my motor mount was leaking hydraulic fluid and would need to be replaced at sometime. What a mess and thanks everyone for your help and advice.
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#24 ·
Seems you are making progress. 👍

Chrysler's problems are just them throwing out distractions. Not your problem. Too much information. They change their stories every day.

Motor mount leaking hydraulic fluid???

I would have someone else phone them to get a quote for the engine head replacement work, saying they are looking for a competitive price instead of doing the work themselves. I bet it will be much cheaper.
 
#25 ·
If you look at the picture with the white fender you can see what loos like a rusty water stain running down. This is the part https://www.autozone.com/external-e...st-passenger-side-motor-mount-3186/516962_0_0 evidently it's filled with hydraulic fluid. They had to take it off to remove the head but they didn't say anything about it before. I thought about getting my wife to call about a 2013 T.C. it has the same issue but they wouldn't give me a quote before without doing a diagnostic. I wish I had access to the software to see what they are looking at. The manager and the service rep both say it has a 2 year labor warranty but in the fine print it says 90 days. I asked about the fine print 90 day and they said didn't know and they don't read fine print. The part is warrantied at any dealership but the labor only at the one that did the work. The shadiest people I have met work at dealerships and real estate.
 
#26 ·
They are shady alright. This makes it even shadier. Sounds like they are all into it, benefiting from Chrysler's poor design.

"She had my name and information and said when I called the other dealerships they sent out an email to notify other dealerships in the area. I guess they got my information from my phone number because I never told anyone my name."
Their work wouldn't been of acceptable quality at half the price IMO. It was hard to believe what the pictures revealed.

I believe the labor rate here is around $130.00 plus 15% tax. Have to check that.

Mitchell 1 Pro-Demand sounds like a system to avoid. They wouldn't set the labor rates, just the hours. Hours should be available from other sources.
 
#27 ·
Well this is what they said about the reimbursement.

Thank you for reaching out to Chrysler Customer Care.

In regards to your 2011 CHRYSLER TOWN & COUNTRY LIMITED, we fully appreciate your concern, particularly in view of the expense and inconvenience involved. However, we are unable to accommodate your request for out-of-warranty consideration. The vehicle has exceeded the time and/or mileage limitations of the warranty (or warranties) we offered on the vehicle at the time it was purchased. Although we are unable to provide a more favorable reply, we appreciate the opportunity to review your request.

We're sorry we cannot provide a more favorable reply.

Nevertheless, we thank you again for giving us the opportunity to address your concern, and for being a valued member of the Chrysler family.

Should you have further questions or concerns please don't hesitate to give us a call back at 800-992-1997.


Sincerely,

Nette
Chrysler Customer Care
 
#28 ·
That's too bad but is as expected, I think.
Small Claims Court maybe?

Interesting:
There were some extensions on vehicle warranties because of COVID.

Your Warranty: 120 months/150,000 miles
Problem Fixed: 130 months/113,000 miles. It obviously had started some time/miles before that.
Your case is that because of COVID, the vehicle wasn't driven very much. If driven as normal, the failure would have occurred during the warranty time period. In either case you would be within the mileage limit.
Any knowledge of when the problem started?
Any knowledge of average miles driven per month a year before and during COVID for comparison purposes?
No doubt, COVID helped the automobile companies to expire their time warranties without paying out for repairs that would have occurred during the time period otherwise. Any way to document that premise?

Interesting:
The company notes that the problem will not disable the engine, despite the potential for misfires, explaining the reasoning behind extending the warranty rather than issuing a formal recall.
The "CASE", as I see it, from the various Posts:
I don't have all the details, but here goes:
2011 Town and Country at 113,000 miles
Company X, representing Chrysler at the Customer level, for repairs and service, replaced the defective left cylinder head on the Pentastar engine.
Company X charged an exorbitant price for this work, out of line as to what Chrysler would have compensated for under warranty, or other Dealerships would have charged.
In addition, the work was completed carelessly requiring, what was readily visible, to be redone, causing doubts as to the quality of the rest of the work that couldn't be seen.
All this contributed to unnecessary stress, extra costs and wasted time for the Customer
Pictures ??
Furthermore:
There is a 10 year/150,000 mile extended warranty for the well known and documented cylinder head problem.
The vehicle is used for a small business delivery service, but when COVID slowed everything down, was not used that much, hence the problem, that started at an earlier date, only became highly noticeable after the time aspect of the warranty expired.
Chrysler has considered, but declined, to cover the repair accordingly. COVID got them off the hook, so to speak. No corporate sorrow for the distressed Customer who expected the service of "an award winning engine" per extensive advertising, still ongoing. There's 37,000 miles left on the mileage component of the extended warranty. An award winning engine should perform well for 150,000 miles, one would expect.
The Customer is being "hard done by" financially and emotionally, with the actions of both Chrysler and its Dealership. Is this the image Chrysler wants to see presented to the world? If so, the world should know.
Bottom Line:
The poor quality cylinder head, nothing else, lead to the Customer getting into this situation, which includes, unfortunately, high priced, questionable work done on the faulty Pentastar engine that has 37,000 miles (25%) remaining under warranty.
Mending the Customer relationship is a good thing for all parties.
Simple resolution is for Chrysler to waive the time part of the warranty, considering 1. COVID and 2. the questionable work of its Dealership.
Dealership service should be in the Customer's better interest and supportive, not an opportunity to take advantage of the Customer. Deplorable is the word that best describes that practice.
Neither Chrysler, nor the Dealership representing Chrysler, should be taking advantage of a Customer who is distressed by a inferior vehicle. i.e. one with a failure prone cylinder head.
 
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#29 ·
I'm also thinking the Chrysler care agent is thinking I'm trying to file it under the original 5 year 100,00 mile. Everyone I talked to has no knowledge of the warranty being extended to 10 years and 150,000 on the cylinder head. I sent them a copy of the document that was sent to the original owner in 2014. We were not told about this issues from he seller but I did find this in the stack of service records we were given after we purchased it.
For a whole year we worked from home, ,did remote learning with the kids school, had grocery's delivered and the wedding delivery's. We bought the van Sept 2019 with 79,000 miles and the issue started December 2021 misfire cylinder 2. It would go off and come back on at first. I changes spark plugs coils and fuel injectors. I think the valves not seating was sporadic at first. I used a vacuum gauge and would see good vacuum for a bit then needle would start twitching and it would lose vacuum. Then I did a compression test on cylinder 2 and 4 cylinder 2 would go 30, 60 ,90 psi on three strokes. Cylinder 4 would be over a 100 fist stroke. I didn't have the gauges to do a leak down test and I thought the only way to talk to Chrysler would be to have them do a diagnostic. Once it was confirmed cylinder 2 had 65% leak down on exhaust valves. I contacted Chrysler to see about the possibility of getting reimbursement if I had them do the work. They said an agent would call in a few days that could tell me if it could get approved or not. No one call so I called them back and they had the original agent apologized to me and said they couldn't tell me if it would or wouldn't get approved. I would have to have the work done and come out of pocket then call back and apply for it. If I knew for sure they wouldn't approve it I could have had a independent shop do it for half the cost or could have taken the time and done it myself. I told my wife I was going to mail in the reimbursement form once a week until I get my five grand out of Chrysler in labor cost having to deal with me.
 

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#30 ·
You will never know what you might achieve until you threaten Small Claims Court. Bill, a friend, had an Astro Van way back when. The transmission failed early and had a reputation for doing so. GM dismissed his claim. He threatened Small Claims Court. GM and Dealership changed their convenient stance and took responsibility for the replacement.
What's the worse that can happen?

They know about the extended warranty, it was well known. They hope it will go away, which it pretty much has. Has the head been replaced before?
 
#31 ·
Not that I found but I did find where the trans was rebuilt by the dealership at 60,000. I did think about just putting a used.remanns engine in but I was afraid this engine could have the same issue later on.


QUOTE #: 19192470
Vehicle/Part: 2011 Chrysler TOWN & COUNTRY / Used Engine - 3.6L, 6 cylinder, VIN G, 8th digit
Price: $1995.00 1945.00 (Used Engine) 5 Year or 50K Mile Parts & Labor Warranty image included
Shipping: Free Shipping in all U.S. states except HI & AK
Mileage: ~61K miles
Core: $250.00

I might start here. Stellantis | Complaints | Better Business Bureau® Profile
 
#32 · (Edited)
I have prodemand access. I work at a dealer. I can look up labor time on the head for yuh.

Okay, so it shows 11.5 hours each or 15 for both.

Now, not trying to defend anyone, but as a flat rate tech, we (myself and co workers) have found on occasion labor times to fluctuate. Wether be short or be over.

So, either someone didn't want to do the job and gave you the labor price for both hoping you'd decline. Or they weren't very confident in doing it and over shot the labor buying themselves room for error. But still. That's not very professional.
Third option would be they are just shady. As a whole.

Plus, the job wasn't don't very neatly. There's definitely short cuts to get things done quicker then what the books says. But still, you never know when a customer is going to pop the hood and look.
 
#33 ·
I have prodemand access. I work at a dealer. I can look up labor time on the head for yuh.

Okay, so it shows 11.5 hours each or 15 for both.

Now, not trying to defend anyone, but as a flat rate tech, we (myself and co workers) have found on occasion labor times to fluctuate. Wether be short or be over.

So, either someone didn't want to do the job and gave you the labor price for both hoping you'd decline. Or they weren't very confident in doing it and over shot the labor buying themselves room for error. But still. That's not very professional.
Third option would be they are just shady. As a whole.

Plus, the job wasn't don't very neatly. There's definitely short cuts to get things done quicker then what the books says. But still, you never know when a customer is going to pop the hood and look.
They wanted the job because they assured me they would do the best job. Well they say they charge 175.50 hr. two year warranty on parts and labor. They charged over 3600 labor and I asked the manager if I was charged labor on both heads and she said no. What can I do?
 
#34 ·
I suspect the p0420 code is coming from an exhaust leak from the left head cylinder replacement. Clear the code with a scanner then check the exhaust manifold & CC convertor flange for exhaust leaks, google on how to do this. You probably just have to tighten an exhaust manifold bolt that was loosened when they did the head replacement.
 
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