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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please help me I'm at my wit's end I have tried everything I can possibly think of I put the key in the ignition turn it over and it will not crank and will not start I have replaced the alternator I've replaced the starter I have replaced the ignition switch and I replaced the starter relay and I have new battery terminals also jumped the relay bypass the relay and the starter will turn over the engine but I replace the relay with a brand new one and it still it will not start when I turn the switch please help I'm at a loss.
 

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Hello and welcome to the Mopar Minivan Garage

I put the key in the ignition turn it over and it will not crank and will not start
By 'turn it over' you mean you turn the key and you don't get engine (starter) 'cranking' the engine and obviously it doesn't run?

When you turn the key to the first click, does the dash light up?
Has the 'check engine' light been on in the past (last time the van was running)? Do you know if any codes are stored?, it helps if you list them for us..
I have replaced the alternator I've replaced the starter I have replaced the ignition switch and I replaced the starter relay and I have new battery terminals also jumped the relay bypass the relay and the starter will turn over the engine but I replace the relay with a brand new one and it still it will not start when I turn the switch please help I'm at a loss.
We are here to help.
What you have done so far sounds very costly.
Shooting from the hip like that, hoping you'll hit the defect can become expensive and frustrating... fast.

We'll do our best to get it figured out for you, for free and the only thing we ask in return is that you come back here and tell us how you fixed the minivan. So we can learn what works and the next guy may find his answer to a similar problem.
The ball is in your court.
Which engine do you have?
 

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If the dash is lighting up when you turn the key to -ON- then you can do a procedure called 'The Key Dance'
to read the fault codes.

turn the key to -ON- and then set the odometer/trip meter to read the total miles (odometer)

Turn the key -OFF- then -ON- then -OFF- then -ON- -OFF- and finally -ON-
the DTN codes will show on the odometer LED as Pxxxx and will go through one at a time until it displays done

Write them down and then post them here...
you can also do some homework by putting those codes into google and reading what they are (but don't interpret them for us, just learn what they are) simply list them here.
 

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ALSO:
tell us how the van came to be in this condition:

WHEN was the last time it worked properly?
WHAT was done to the van just prior to it becoming disabled?
HOW LONG has your vehicle been disabled?
DID YOU NOTICE any anomalies or weird occurrences just prior to your van becoming disabled?

*be careful about jumpering relays. There are two circuits in there for the relay. the control circuit and the actual 'work circuit' the control circuit is energized (or grounded) to energize an electromagnet that makes the relay's clicking sound of the magnet closing the 'work circuit' switch contacts...

The PCM (powertrain control module) many times will have to control circuit energized and then to operate the relay, the computer will provide the ground path to make the relay operate. Careful to NOT blow up your PCM.
 

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I am getting a little clairvoyance here:

Remove your battery (all the way, take it out) we need the room (and why not charge it just for the heck of it)
The fuse/relay box is called the IPM (integrated power module) we want to look under the IPM for corrosion and/or loose wires.

There are a few plastic clip catches around the IPM and if you release them the IPM will become released from the chassis.

Carefully lift the IPM up as it will naturally hinge on the wire harness.
-TAKE A PICTURE right away before you start to remove connectors or anything. The wire harness plugs go in such a neat way so everything fits snugly under the IPM when it is back in position. A picture or several may help ensure that you get every wire bundle back in position as required.
-POST YOU PICTURE HERE- why not...

-now, what does it look like under there? do you see and white or light blue ****, paste or corrosion?
-do you see any wires that appear loose (at first glance)?
There are locking levers on each connector and each connector is unique (and color coded) so it can really only go back together one way...


At 4:10 he finds a corroded connector and then says something like "the reason we are doing this is because of starting faults"


Get some electrical contact cleaner (aerosol) helps clean stuff up, blast it clean (wear safety glasses and be careful)
in a pinch, non chlorinated brake cleaner but really best to use an electronic/electrical specific cleaner...

Let us know what you find, what you see, and if you get her back up and running.
Cheers!

*we love to see pictures, worth thousands of words, so they say...
 

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Where is this van located? Where has it spent its life? Salt/snow roads?? Dusty/wet locations. Every get submerged in a sea water flood hurricane?

EDIT:
I am not advocating taking the whole thing apart quite yet. (like in the posted video, I just wanted to demonstrate releasing and flipping it over for inspection)
Simply free the IPM from its mounting clips and look at the conditions underneath.
*If you find a mess and rats chewing on wires maybe we'll take it all apart (not likely)
** the wires should all be securely locked into the plastic connectors (sometimes we find them loose or perhaps even melted) and corrosion is possibly a situation.




He didn't explain that the RED CLIP is a secondary lock for the lock
You move the red clip and then push the release.

When you reassemble you simply snap the connector back in until you hear it clic, then slide the RED LOCK to secure the clip lock.

Be careful and be gentle...
Good Luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the advice the engine is a 3.3L I started having issues with not wanting to start about 2 weeks ago my alternator failed and killed my battery so I installed a new alternator and replaced battery and she started fine couple of times but the battery light kept kicking on and ran battery down so I went to automotive store to have them run a battery and alternator check to make sure alternator was working correctly as they ran the test she died and wouldn't restart so I had her towed home and that's when I started investigating through process of elimination I replaced starter and ignition switch and new starter relay and still nothing I've been through all the basic common sense checks like clean new terminals and fully charged battery tested current with multi meter and now I frustrated and at a loss I'm not good when it comes to electrical issues but with some guidance I think I'm capable.
I live in mid state of Missouri she's my daily driver and has over 200k miles on her she's usually very dependable until now.
Any and all advice is appreciated!!
 

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There is an electrical path between the battery and the starter. Check the entire path. It includes the battery terminals, the positive connection to the starter, the ground going to the engine, and maybe some other wires. Check all connections for corrosion and gently clean them with fine sandpaper or whatever works. There is also a ground to the chassis which is under the battery tray which should be checked.
 

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Like DIYFan said, the electrical path, and that runs through the IPM.
I will be curious to see what you find there.

That IPM is a neat thing but earlier models can be problematic as they were working out the longevity of the design. Lucky you don't have a Mercedes as their fuse modules have individual computers and programming is mostly stealership only.

Many times when you are sitting aboard your flight delayed departure, and there is a mechanical error... there is some technician down in the avionics bay and he is simply 're-racking' components. 93% of the time that gets you going. In a commercial airliner there are individual electronic modules and they are on like a slide mount CB radio rack. They simply remove the module a quick glance for visible damage, and then they just put it back in.... thus refreshing the electrical contacts.

That is why I do not recommend going as far into disassembly as that EweTuber did in the video above. Not just yet...

Pop the IPM, flip it over, take some pictures.... then remove, inspect, and reinstall many of the connectors (it doesn't have to be each and every one) and at that point I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it starts right up.

Snap it back into position and drive on.

IF i\t returns, you likely know it is under there.

Let us know please.

Don't be a skeered, it is relatively easy like setting up a cable box.
Cheers
 

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Boy, you've done a lot of expensive part throwing at this.

Why do you suspect your alternator killed your battery?

Battery check (crude). Use a digital voltmeter set to DC 20 Volts setting (common on meters). Put the red on the positive terminal, black on the negative. How many volts do you see? (should be about 12-12.5 volts) Lower than this, the battery is suspect. May need charging. May need replacement.

Have someone try to start the car, while watching the meter. It can drop to 10.5 or 11 and still start. If you see no drop, then you don't have the starter solenoid and starter pulling a load. (the click you hear when you try to start the car). Since you replaced the starter, it should be good. Hopefully as you replaced the starter and alternator, you pulled the negative terminal off the battery, otherwise you can short out (and even weld) your wrench to surrounding parts from the positive path, through the engine/body and back to ground. I prefer pulling ground, because the positive side can give some residual power to keep radio settings, etc.

This can also be crudely seen by turning on the headlights and seeing if they dim while trying to start the car. No dim? No starter working properly.

You can also check the starter relay (swap out with one similar to it - pins and position).

The advice earlier was pretty good about starter relay operation. There are two circuits. One has power and ground, and becomes an electromagnet when energized by the key turning to completing the circuit. The generated magnetic field will pull a metal part inside the 2nd circuit, causing it to complete a different path typically with high current (for your starter solenoid). It can go bad and not operate the wiper (metal part) inside the relay. When it's working, you can hear a click. Again, swap it, because lots of relays can click and it's easy to confuse which one(s) are making noise.

The starter solenoid itself is an electromagnet, that pulls a metallic rod into it. The other end of the rod contains two heavy contacts that will hit a big copper ring, itself completing a circuit that forces the starter draw a splined shaft out to engage the flexplate (flywheel) and then spin it, thus starting your engine.

So as you see, you have 3 circuits going on here. Your key turning initiates the 1st circuit (primary on the relay). This should pull a wiper in the relay to close the 2nd circuit going to the starter solenoid, which pulls contacts across a big copper ring to complete the 3rd circuit.

If the car/alternator are running, it should read 13.5-14.5 volts at the battery. If it's still only showing 12ish then the alternator isn't working properly (could be bad diodes or a regulator or wiring from the alternator to the battery. Or the alternator belt is broken).

Try that to start with, and see what you find.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thank you for all the advice I've done everything that has been suggested and ultimately it ended up being the PCM and they give me a faulty replacement alternator so I put a new upgraded one in it and installed the new PCM and Old Red is back on the road for now. Thank you to all who had suggestions.
 
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