Did they come with any lube?
You NEED to lube them to make them last.
Not grease.
Johnny

 

No lube was supplied

 

Any pix?

 

Yeah, want pics!

 

So the nylon bushing grips the bar and the black urethane (or rubber) bushing grips the nylon bushing (via the interlock)??? :ask_wsign
Interesting. Intrigued. A couple of pictures of the bushings would be great.

 

That's the way I see it too. I will try to send some pix before I mount them, if I can figure out how to send pix. I have never sent pix on the internet, or changed bushings for that matter, so I will have to become a fast learner.

John

 

Sounds to me like they are hoping that the nylon will wear slower than the traditional rubberized plastic does. I will be interested to see how that works.

The problem with lubing an "open" bushing like this is keeping dirt out. Grease will attract dirt (not really attract but dirt will stick) and actually accelerate wear. The same reason they say you should never grease your trailer ball. It will act as a grinding slurry and promote wear. An ungreased joint will simply not attact dirt because there is nothing for it to stick to.

 

I believe the bushing is suppose to work by gripping the bar so one would want maximum friction at the interface. Otherwise, there would be a grease fitting for continual maintenance of a lubricated joint / surface.
Once the bushing loses its grip on the bar, wear will start, and wear causes looseness. If the bushing were designed for the bar to rotate within it, it would be designed to wear / fail very quickly (in a few weeks) without lubrication. It would also have two bolts clamping it. I haven't seen any maintenance schedule where these bushings are to be lubricated in any way whatsoever, nor have I seen any installation instructions that included lubrication or any treatment of the sway bar. I have always installed them "dry" and watched service stations install them dry as well. Just checked the Haynes Manual, nothing about lubrication there.
Maybe I have missed something somewhere on this. If so, I would like to know.
Here's what ARRC says re my Van:

NOTE: Two different diameter stabilizer bars and bushings may be used in this vehicle. Make sure to use the correct size bar and bushings.

Install new bushings on the stabilizer bar if necessary. Install the bushing so the slit will be facing the rear when the bar is installed.
Place the stabilizer bar in the cradle so the bushings are aligned with depressions in cradle. Install the bushing retainers on the crossmember aligning the raised bead on retainer with cutouts in bushings. Do not tighten the bushing retainer bolts at this time.
Check the position of the stabilizer bar. Center the curved section of the stabilizer bar with the raised line in the center of the front suspension cradle.
Connect the stabilizer bar link to each end of the stabilizer bar. Use a wrench to prevent the studs from turning. Tighten the nuts to 65 ft. lbs. (88 Nm).
Tighten the stabilizer bar bushing retainer bolts to 50 ft. lbs. (68 Nm).

That's from:

Library Information - ARRC:
This valuable source of information can be accessed as follows:
- Go to http://www.oplin.org/databases/proxy2/proxy.php?doCardCheck=1&txtCardNumber=123456789
- Go to the following Library from the drop down list and submit it.
Public Library of Cincinnati and Hamilton County
- Go to ALL EBSCOhost Databases and click on it.
- Go down to Auto Repair Reference Center (ARRC) and click on it.
- Submit your YEAR and take it from there.
Note: If info isn't there for your year / model, try another year or similar model.

 

The slit has small lips that fit in the black bushing slit to prevent rotational movement.

Sounds to me like they want the nylon to slip on the bar. They appear to be locking the nylon to the rest of the bushing.

 

Ramps

 

Good luck, you will be a happy camper. :thumb:

 

Here are some pictures I took with a disposable Kodak camera - poor people have poor ways - but it gives some idea of the new OEM bushing configuration.
:beerchug:

 

I have the exact same ones on my van. they have been on for about 20K now and still work great. No thumping like the old ones. DO NOT lube them up, they do not need it and lube has never been intended to be used with any of the bushings. I usually will sand the area before relacing with new bushing as usually it is very smooth and still has a thin film of material from the old bushing. I like these bushings alot, If I remember correctly, I bought these from a Chrysler dealer in Ohio off their ebay site. I was tired of trying all the other bushing which last 4-6 mths before they become noisy once again. I saw these on their site and it looked like a good design, so I ordered some. Been very happy with them. I've been meaniing to post a message abou these but just simply forgot. Thanks for bringing this subject up as this design seems to be the best. Tom

 

Noted your comment about using no lubrication and roughing up the surface for better grip. That's how I see it as well.
Some, on this site, are advocating lubricant, but I don't know by what authority.

 

Replaced the Sway Bar Bushings and End Links this afternoon on my 2005 T&C.

The first couple of photos show the DS bushing compared to the new bushing.

 

Passenger side bushings, notice the crack in the raised rib...

I found that my "Side Winder Ratchet Wrench" came in handy for nut removal. Just twist the "T" hand to spin the nuts off.

 

Gotta love that wrench. Use any lubricant on the bushings? Hope not. :thumb:

 

Replacing 2-sway bar bushings, 2-sway bar end links, and a set of front brakes took just under 3 hours...

Spent an hour just getting the DS end link off until I used a torch to heat the nuts and melt away the nylon inserts.... Then it became a MUCH EASIER job.

 

Let me see, it took Chrysler 8 or 9 years to introduce a "fix' for poorly designed sway bar links and bushings.

 

As far as lube, I think the need is only for true urethane components. These are so hard, that if they were dry, they would wear quickly as they can't grip well. They will also squeak like crazy. Lube them up, and they will rotate without squeaking, and will not wear.

Rubber or thermoplastic is different. Even this nylon insert is more compliant than urethane. The intent hear is to prevent slipping, which will prevent/reduce wear.

However, from my experience changing my bushings a few months ago (first time), I do not see this nylon insert being a fix. My bushings looked just like the pics on this thread. Like I said in other threads, you notice that the permanent deformation on these bushings is always in the same place...always on the outside ends, facing forward. Why? Because the bar is not straight all the way thru the bushing. It starts it bend while still in the bushing.

If you look at a brand new bushing, newly installed from the outboard end, you will see that (at rest, with the van level), that portion of the bushing is already compressed. It should not be! But these bushings are compressed and being worked 100% of the time, due to either a poor bar design, or a supplier that has never been pressured to hold dimensions properly over the past 12+ years. That's why I'm glad these bushings are so cheap....we'll all be replacing them every few years.

This nylon insert does not address this issue. The insert will simply be pressed into the rubber, and the nylon will eventually crack, in addition to the rubber taking a permanent set.

The answer is to straighten out that bar, such that the bar and the hole are concentric all the way thru.
....or move the bushing/retainer location inboard to where the bar IS straight. Either fix is not as easy as it sounds.

 

As far as lube, I think the need is only for true urethane components. These are so hard, that if they were dry, they would wear quickly as they can't grip well. They will also squeak like crazy. Lube them up, and they will rotate without squeaking, and will not wear.

Rubber or thermoplastic is different. Even this nylon insert is more compliant than urethane. The intent hear is to prevent slipping, which will prevent/reduce wear.

However, from my experience changing my bushings a few months ago (first time), I do not see this nylon insert being a fix. My bushings looked just like the pics on this thread. Like I said in other threads, you notice that the permanent deformation on these bushings is always in the same place...always on the outside ends, facing forward. Why? Because the bar is not straight all the way thru the bushing. It starts it bend while still in the bushing.

If you look at a brand new bushing, newly installed from the outboard end, you will see that (at rest, with the van level), that portion of the bushing is already compressed. It should not be! But these bushings are compressed and being worked 100% of the time, due to either a poor bar design, or a supplier that has never been pressured to hold dimensions properly over the past 12+ years. That's why I'm glad these bushings are so cheap....we'll all be replacing them every few years.

This nylon insert does not address this issue. The insert will simply be pressed into the rubber, and the nylon will eventually crack, in addition to the rubber taking a permanent set.

The answer is to straighten out that bar, such that the bar and the hole are concentric all the way thru.
....or move the bushing/retainer location inboard to where the bar IS straight. Either fix is not as easy as it sounds.

Lubrication of bushings: I would only lubricate bushings that had a grease fitting (zerk) and a hole in the bushing for the lubricant to travel through to get to the surfaces requiring lubrication. There are bushings designed that way but they are totally bolted bushings. Otherwise, install as dry as possible to get maximum grip on the bar.

Preventing slipping around the sway bar: I agree / believe that is the intent and installing the bushing in a more neutral location of the sway bar (using ramps instead of jack stands) may help that. Also helps to roughen up any slippery surfaces on the sway bar (remove sheen, smoothness) so the bushing can get maximum grip.

Design: Sway bars on some other vehicles make that same turn into the bushing and even worse on the 2004 Acura TSX I looked at. My sense is that if the bracket had two bolts, instead of a bolt and a tab, the bushing may wear but there would be no metal to metal "clunking" as the bolted surfaces would be tight. My Jeep has two bolts on its sway bar bushing brackets. I'm sure, with the additional suspension travel on that vehicle, the bushings must be worn by now, but no noticeable noise is heard. If one of those bolts was a tab instead, I think I would hear lots of noise. I wonder what the design on the 5th Generation looks like.
As to the "new" nylon insert, I must check with my contacts at the Dealership to see what the intent is there. I believe the nylon sleeve may be soft enough (grip) and strong enough to improve the performance level of the bushing. In future, it may be the replacement component instead of the whole bushing possibly.

 

Had my 03 GCS to the dealer for state inspection and asked "how much to replace the sway bar bushings"? The service mgr. replied, "$30.00". I'm scheduling to have it done because I believe, at that price and my age/physical condition, I don't want to crawl under the van. If the replacements last 5 years, as did the OEs, its worth it to me.

 

For $30.00 I would have let the dealer replace mine, but I was quoted $ 390.00 for the job three weeks ago!

 

At $390, someone entered the wrong service code(s).

 

Follow up: Had both sway bar bushings replaced at local dealership. Price was $52.00. Still squeaking. Mechanic leveraged door to rock the chassis and asked if I heard the clunking noise which he said was the swaybar links that needed to be replaced...$90.00. I deferred for now. Can the links cause squeaking?

 

They can get dried out (grease is gone) and rust, so yes they can squeak. When they are that bad, you should be able to detect looseness in the joint(s) when you grab hold of it as long as the sway bar is in a neutral position. With somebody rocking the vehicle, you should be able to determine which side is bad initially. Can try spraying lubricant around the individual joints and see what happens. They don't wear out in pairs. One side can outlast the other by thousands of miles. One on my Passengers side was replaced at 151,000 kms, one on Driver's side is original (201,000 kms). The replacement link has grease fittings which get greased with every oil change.

 

2003 voyagor

mybe you you can me Ihave a 2003 voyager and we replace battery about 6 months ago and the speed ometer junp the peg and my husband took the battey backout thining it would go back but it did not you can see it moveingwhen we are driving please what can we do
thanks
jelly52543

 

Update re: sway bar bushings and end-links.

Had sway bar bushings replaced two weeks ago at a price of $52.00 and today I had the end-links replaced at a price of $122.00....including tax. Local dealer did the work. I told the service writer that I had been tempted (even at my advanced age) to do the work and he said that I should be glad I didn't because they had to use the "hot wrench" to get one of the links out. I must have had a questioning look because he then added, "you know, the cutting torch". Commonly, I don't favor dealerships for work but this is a small-town dealer who knows his existence is based on friendship and ethics. We had a cup of coffee and discussed his 3 cash for clunkers transactions of last week as the work was being done. (eat your hearts out, you big-city folks) He told me that one of his transactions was for a basic Dodge Caliber that after C4C and the $3500 rebate...the bottom line was $10K. He had a pic of the 91 Ford Esploder/clunker being crushed. I advised getting the pic put on a disc in case the VIN number shows up in a drunk driving/wreck litigation some ensuing date. I also told him that Cash For Clunkers is not new.....my EX has been receiving alimony for 25 plus years.

 

I also told him that Cash For Clunkers is not new.....my EX has been receiving alimony for 25 plus years.

:lol:

My Lord that is the funniest thing I've read/heard all week! TY purplepassion!

:thumb:

:beerchug:

 

I have included some pictures of the bushings that I just removed from my van.

http://picasaweb.google.com/mike.verkaik/2001Caravan#

They look worn and stretched.

 

Those old bushings don't look that bad. I have one in front of me that looks a lot worse, then again it's the old more pure rubber type with the toothed slit in it.

Nice looking Van. Is it any quieter?

 

my 01 van rattles more than my other daily driver 21 year old car. I will try the nylon insert bushing next. My bushings go every 5000 miles. At one time i tried wraping the sway bar with duct tape which worked untill the tape squeezed out 2000 miles later. So I'm hesitantly optimistic about the nylon insert! I change the bushings with every oil change. come to think of it, all my past chrylsers have been rattle boxes except my 55 Desoto I had a few years ago. That car was quiet and Drove like a dream, then again they don't make cars like that anymore..

 

5,000 miles is much too quick. A couple of things may be happening:
- wrong size bushing. Check the diameter of your sway bar with a set of calipers.
- not tightened sufficiently. There are torque specs but the there should be face to face, tight contact at the bolted connection. Any looseness will allow the tab end of the bracket to beat against the chassis.

Duct tape squeezing out. :lol: Did you take the roll back for a refund? I guess the duct tape would act like any other lubricant in that situation.

I'm not too sure how the nylon insert works. Depending on formulation, nylon on steel can have a fairly high coefficient of static friction (0.40 for Domtar Ertalon 66GF30) or a fairly low coefficient of friction (0.14 for Domtar Nylatron 703XL). Ertalon 66GF30 is used for bearings and bushings.

Here's an interesting article as to how bushings work on vehicles.

The advantage of Ertalon 66GF30, if that (or something similar) is what Chrysler is using for the nylon insert in the sway bar bushing, is it's coefficient of friction is very consistent and its resistance to wear is high, so they may be using this insert to get the best of both worlds - grip the bar mostly, but if it slips, it won't do that in a "grabbing" fashion and will wear long inspite of any slipping.

As to the polyurethane bushings:

Polyurethane has a high resistance to abrasion, and a lower degree of friction compared with many materials in its class. The harder the material, the lower the friction coefficient of the material. In numerous laboratory test, polyurethane has shown a definite wear advantage when compared to rubber, and other materials. In fact, polyurethane showed a wear advantage, against many forms of steel.

I wouldn't consider the polyurethane in sway bar bushings a "hard" polyurethane, for sure.

Another consideration is that if the system were designed for the sway bar to rotate freely within the bushing, you wouldn't squeezing the blankety blank out of it during installation. A single bolt with a tab configuration, doesn't tolerate any looseness.

 

thanks Jeepman.
I do everything mentioned above but I don't measure the swaybar? They (the partman) has never asked me what size? Are there two differnt size bushings? I heard about the differnt size sway bars, I must have the smaller one? What part should i get. This is crazy.. I was going to get the Mopar nylon incert ones next. I see someone posted about a touring and standard bushings but I have never been asked at the part stores! I have tried them all, they all rattle, just not for the first 5000 miles. The Mopar brand doesn't ask what size the bar is, do they? I will order some next week.

 

The two sway bars, standard and touring, aren't much different in size, apparently. The sole bushing size listed by NAPA has an internal diameter between the two sizes, so is used for both it seems. That's probably how the Dealer was handling it as well.

The fact that two bushings are listed on dodgeparts.com is interesting. There could be two sizes because of the nylon insert, but that doesn't explain the big price difference. Maybe one is the old model and one is the new "insert" model.

When you get bushings, it would be prudent to ask if there are two different sizes available. Never know. If your vehicle has the touring package with a rear sway bar, it will likely have the slightly bigger diameter sway bar.

 

.5 mm is the difference.

 

With, or without the corrosion? :biggrin:
Clunking versus a non clunking bushing/bracket is probably about 0.5 mm of wear.

 

That's the difference in bar diameter. One is 26.0mm, one is 26.5mm. As we well know, the aftermarket only sells one size, unfortunately.

 

The difference in diameter seems small enough to be of little consequence. Makes one wonder why dodgeparts.com lists two bushings, one for standard suspension ($7.80), one for touring suspension ($5.10) for the Generation 4.

Then again, a 0.5 mm difference in diameter translates into a 1.6 mm difference in circumference, so the fit of the nylon insert could come into play there. Maybe that nylon insert is only for the standard suspension, hence the higher cost.

A call to the Parts Guy at a local Dealership seems to be on my agenda today. :thumb:

 

The difference in diameter seems small enough to be of little consequence. Makes one wonder why dodgeparts.com lists two bushings, one for standard suspension ($7.80), one for touring suspension ($5.10) for the Generation 4.
...
Maybe that nylon insert is only for the standard suspension, hence the higher cost.

I think this is the case. Chryslerpartsdirect.com lists the cost for the standard suspension bush at $8.46 ea. and the cost for the touring suspension bush at $5.54 each. It does not give part numbers, but when I type in the part number given at the top of this thread for the nylon insert bush, it comes out at $8.46, so I'm fairly sure that it's the same part.

Our van uses what I assume to be the smaller bar, and I will order the nylon-sleeved bush this week. I hope to get some more life out of it than I have with any of the others. I'm fairly sure it's the bushes rather than something else because the van DOES get quiet for a period after replacement. It's usually getting noisy again 5-7k miles later.