[Jeepman]

You got me, good one! :lol:

That was a wrong paste for sure. It has been corrected. Glad it gave you a laugh though. :lol: :thumb:

 

[Chrysler1924]

Ah. I see, so people are putting fabricated pieces of rubber in lieu of the nylon insert available on the fourth generation replacement parts. Hm.

 

[Jeepman]

Ah. I see, so people are putting fabricated pieces of rubber in lieu of the nylon insert available on the fourth generation replacement parts. Hm.

Not exactly, but anyway ......

Went to a local parts store and looked at the blue MOOG polyurethane bushings for my vehicle @ $20.00 a pair.
Two MOOG part #s for the 2002:
For 1" diameter sway bar: J7350
For the 26.5 mm diameter sway bar K7406 (that's mine with the touring suspension)

For a 2000 (3rd Generation): J7350 (as above)

 

[Sunvanse]

Ah. I see, so people are putting fabricated pieces of rubber in lieu of the nylon insert available on the fourth generation replacement parts. Hm.

As Jeep man said, not exactly. The fabricated piece of rubber would only lie inside curved portion of bracket, around the outside the bushing, not around the bar. This takes up any slack that develops when the bracket tab is able to move in it's slot even though bolt is tight.

 

[Jeepman]

Jason's experience with the nylon insert bushings is similar to mine. See Post 66 and 67 on this thread.

Problem shows up when making turns, goes away when going straight.

 

[grimmster]

OK, van has starting to make a creaking sound when turning the wheel. more so turning left then right. No thumps going over bumps, just the creaking sound while turning. We just went over 72000 and the bushings have never been changed. sound like bushings or should I just replace them now no matter what, if it takes care of it great and if not look further?

So are the NAPA ones or AutoZone ones recommended?

 

[jgbat]

OK, van has starting to make a creaking sound when turning the wheel. more so turning left then right. No thumps going over bumps, just the creaking sound while turning. We just went over 72000 and the bushings have never been changed. sound like bushings or should I just replace them now no matter what, if it takes care of it great and if not look further?

So are the NAPA ones or AutoZone ones recommended?

Creaking when turning is more than likely ball joints... And I'd use the new OEM bushings with the nylon insert. I also lubed mine with anti-seeze when I installed them (as well as bent the tab so it would be more secure). I keep waiting for it to start making sounds again... I have new bushing brackets to install... but so far... quiet as can be.

 

[Jeepman]

OK, van has starting to make a creaking sound when turning the wheel. more so turning left then right. No thumps going over bumps, just the creaking sound while turning. We just went over 72000 and the bushings have never been changed. sound like bushings or should I just replace them now no matter what, if it takes care of it great and if not look further?

So are the NAPA ones or AutoZone ones recommended?

Creaking might be associated with dryness of the jounce bumper (it's on the strut shaft). Bad sway bar bushings will result in a metal to metal clunking sound. You have done well so far with the bushings. :thumb:

SUBJECT:
Creaking/Squawking Sound From Front Strut Area
OVERVIEW:
This bulletin, #02-004-05, involves applying lubricant to the jounce bumper of both front struts.
MODELS:
2004 - 2005 (CS) Pacifica
2001 - 2005 (RS/RG) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager

 

[DaveInColumbus]

Creaking when turning is more than likely ball joints... And I'd use the new OEM bushings with the nylon insert. I also lubed mine with anti-seeze when I installed them (as well as bent the tab so it would be more secure). I keep waiting for it to start making sounds again... I have new bushing brackets to install... but so far... quiet as can be.

On my third gen, the creaking was the sway bar end links. When one of them fractured, the creaking went away. I've had lots of cars with bad ball joints, and none of them creaked due to a worn ball joint. Worn ball joints usually knock, not creak, because the way most ball joints are used, the knuckle pivots on the ball joints. The joint might turn with the knuckle, but under most circumstances, the friction in the joint will greatly exceed the friction on the post on the top of the joint; thus, the joint won't rotate with the knuckle.

Worn ball joints are easy to detect once a wheel is off the ground. My pry bar finds 'em every time.

 

[jgbat]

On my third gen, the creaking was the sway bar end links. When one of them fractured, the creaking went away. I've had lots of cars with bad ball joints, and none of them creaked due to a worn ball joint. Worn ball joints usually knock, not creak, because the way most ball joints are used, the knuckle pivots on the ball joints. The joint might turn with the knuckle, but under most circumstances, the friction in the joint will greatly exceed the friction on the post on the top of the joint; thus, the joint won't rotate with the knuckle.

Worn ball joints are easy to detect once a wheel is off the ground. My pry bar finds 'em every time.

Usually you are correct. But I have seen them get dry of grease and creak when turning. And yes, a pry bar will find a bad ball joint very quickly.

 

[Dodgeboy77]

I emailed Johnny from Polybushings.com a few days ago. He got back to me and said he is in the process of designing heavy duty sway bar bushings for our vans.

Bill

 

[grimmster]

OK, tried to look a little more at this today, and I have no idea how you would get to the jounce bumper to lube it. I cannot raise the boot high enough to even get that far. Also I tried pushing up and down on the front end and could not get the sound, but turning left and right (mostly left) I get the sound, could not really pinpoint where it might be. I tired to move the ball joint and link bar, but they seemed pretty solid. After doing that test I backed out of the garage and something was not right, a major rubbing noise and feel was going on. a couple of turns of the wheel and it was gone, I know my reservoir has a clog (also on my April list to do) so not sure if it was something with the power steering or something with my links/swaybars.

 

[Jeepman]

OK, tried to look a little more at this today, and I have no idea how you would get to the jounce bumper to lube it. I cannot raise the boot high enough to even get that far. Also I tried pushing up and down on the front end and could not get the sound, but turning left and right (mostly left) I get the sound, could not really pinpoint where it might be. I tired to move the ball joint and link bar, but they seemed pretty solid. After doing that test I backed out of the garage and something was not right, a major rubbing noise and feel was going on. a couple of turns of the wheel and it was gone, I know my reservoir has a clog (also on my April list to do) so not sure if it was something with the power steering or something with my links/swaybars.

With wheels off the ground, the top part of the shaft (above the boot) is exposed. You can apply lube there. You can then push the boot up the shaft to lube the lower part of the shaft, just below when the jounce bumper sits at the time (it goes up with the top part of the boot). Once finished, bring the boot down over the strut a bit to where you started.
I just used Permatex synthetic disc brake lube on mine, it doesn't attract dust and is recommended for sleeves and bushings.

A couple of questions:
1. Do you have greasable sway bar links? If so, is the lower grease fitting rubbing against the axle? This fitting should be tuned away from the axle 180 degrees.
2. Do you have sway bar bushings with nylon inserts? They can get noisy when making turns and then quiet down when going straight.

 

[khnitz]

So, as I still don't know of a source for poly swaybar bushings for our generation of vans, is the best solution to replace the swaybar bushing brackets at the same time as the bushings? As my read of this thread seems to point to the source of the noise being the loosening of the upper retaining tab on the bracket allowing metal-on-metal movement.

I just finished a day of work on the van yesterday - with new Monroe load-leveling shocks in the rear, front brake rotors, front brake pads, swaybar endlinks, and serpentine belt, idler pulley and tensioner assembly/pulley. I also lubed the front strut jounce bumpers (top and bottom, and the opening on the underside of the upper strut mount that it slides into) with Permatex Synthetic Brake Lube, as per the TSB.

While I was working on replacing the swaybar endlinks, I was able to reproduce the creaking sound from the suspension. I noticed it after having removed the strut-arm side of the swaybar endlink, and then having torqued it against the axle to provide some movement of the swaybar. The creaking was most noticeable on the driver's side bushing on our van.

 

[Jeepman]

MOOG blue bushings are polyurethane, I think. The instructions come with them. http://www.federalmogul.com/en/Afte...America/SteeringSolutions/Products/MOOG-Steering-Suspension/Bushings(BushesUK)/
Also the Dealerships have rubber bushings with nylon inserts for wear.

 

[khnitz]

Interesting. I did use the Moog K7406 bushings from Advance Auto Parts when I replaced them last Fall (along with installing a new steering rack and tie-rod ends). I would say we've put on ~10k miles since then, but the noise was still present right after that work, too (right after the new bushings were installed). So I guess I'll have to order up the new swaybar mounting brackets and see if that cures it. When installing those, I'll probably just go with new bolts, nuts and bushings (again), just to be safe.

 

[Jeepman]

Interesting. I did use the Moog K7406 bushings from Advance Auto Parts when I replaced them last Fall (along with installing a new steering rack and tie-rod ends). I would say we've put on ~10k miles since then, but the noise was still present right after that work, too (right after the new bushings were installed). So I guess I'll have to order up the new swaybar mounting brackets and see if that cures it. When installing those, I'll probably just go with new bolts, nuts and bushings (again), just to be safe.

My guess is that they weren't tightened down enough. There should be no gap left when tight. The directions for the blue MOOG Problem Solver Bushing are to clean the sway bar prior to installation and the split must be facing toward bolt mount end. I would say match up the grove in the bushing with the dent in the bracket.
The instructions don't say anything about lubrication. If applying lubricant, some synthetic brake lube would be my choice.
There are two different sway bar diameters as well. If you have the touring package, you may have a slightly larger diameter (not much difference, about a mm).
Your bolts should be fine for reuse. They are a very sturdy bolt for the application. The shops use impact wrenches to tighten them.

 

[khnitz]

I do have the Touring suspension, and I remember tightening the snot out of those bolts Moog doesn't make a distinction for standard vs. Touring suspension, though, do they? I wonder then if I should just go with the dealer-parts on the bushings (with the insert).

When I re-do it, I'll just start it all from scratch and get it corrected (hopefully). The total on the parts will be well below $100, anyway.

 

[paulw517]

Internet pics of sway bar replacement

We just purchased a used 2002 Chrysler Town & Country LXi 3.8L Mini Van. We noticed there is a clunking noise under our feet when hitting a bump. I found this forum via a search and I was reading this thread about replacing the sway bar bushings. Attached is a link to nice pictures some body posted of the entire process:

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/10109-Sway-Bar-Bushings-replaced-A-Pictorial

I thank all of you for the good information provided on this forum.

paulw517

 

[Johnny]

Sway bar bushing issues here.
1. Swaybars twist, thus rotate in a bushing
a. If it is a rubber bushing it grips both bar and bracket but the rubber flexes in between both
b. If a thermo plastic (like the moog ones) or polyurethane the bushing rotates inside the bushing, thus the bushing is acting as a bearing and needs to be lubed between the bushing and bar
c. The factory one with the nylon insert, the factory is hoping the nylon is acting as a slippery surface between it and what ever is moving next to it.

I made some polyurethane front swaybar bushings for the 2001-07 vans. They have been installed in two different vans. It has only been a couple weeks so no bad news yet. I am not going to wait months to see the out come. I have made them for many different applications with great success.
I will make a few sets soon and have them available.

Johnny