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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Family,

I'm new to the forum, I also have other cars and corresponding forums for them. Recently bought my dad's caravan this is a 2001 Dodge Caravan 2.4L SE and when the temp needle reaches the half vehicle stalls. I checked fans, fan relays and still stalls. I replaced the coolant temp sensor ECT and still stalls. I instead watch a video how connected the 2 terminals of the fan relay adapter to a switch in the dashboard so I can manually turn on/ off the fans to be able to operate the vehicle otherwise it stalls and doesn't turn on till it's cooled off.

Has anyone please had the same issue and please provide direction.

I beg you guys.. don't know what else to do.

I have all of required mechanic tools to troubleshoot but don't know where to start.

Miles
 

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Drivin' Maniac
2002 Grand Caravan ES 3.8L
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Just a W.A.G. (since we don't own a 4 cyl)

Have you cleaned the throttle body and butterfly?


+++++
The other Topic you responded to indicated that they had misfires, too. You getting any of those?
 

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Coming from a 3.8L background (so this may be irrelevant information on a 2.4L but would think the display design would be similar), the 1/2 mark on my temperature instrumentation display is roughly the full operating temperature of 195 to 220 degrees F. My needle typically stays just one or two needle widths below the 1/2 mark when fully warmed up. Again, I would think this would be similar for the 2.4L as well, but perhaps other 2.4L owners will chime in. Where did you get the 106 degrees F reading? Presumably a scan tool with data capability?
 

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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thank you so much guys for your input and feedback!

Have you cleaned the throttle body and butterfly?
I did a year ago and did not have this issue. I went and bought Throttle Body and Air-Intake Cleaner will be doing this over the weekend when it does not interfere with my day work.

Intake air temperature sensor?
Yup same a year ago, the car brought to me to fix. I was left park at a farm for over 2 years unattended. I flushed radiator, hoses, cleaned TB and re-work the brakes. No issues till now.. that's the only thing I can say that I did different. Cause the Fan relay does work.. but I figured it's shutting down cause of a sensor that heats and it's old.. and probably reason why it shuts off. After cooling the vehicle is back to normal.


ScuzziOne
Correct I used an app on my phone called Torque Pro. Using OBDII reader.

After cleaning TB this weekend I will report back. Also will take pictures that way it will help others not run with same experience.

I read tens of threads and it sent me to different directions..

I replaced Temp Coolant, Camshaft position sensor and even rigged up the switch from the radiator fan relay sitting in the front bumper to the dashboard with a light to notify me when fans are on or off. And save battery power.

Will provide pics this weekend of the rig.

Thank you so much guys - you have no idea the blessing this is from your responses.

Good day!

Miles
 

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I want to suggest that it might have something to do with the engine control transitioning from "open loop" during warm-up to "closed loop" when temperature approaches operating temperature... which might point to a possible bad oxygen sensor; however, that 106 degrees F reading seems low for that change-over to be occurring. I'm wondering if the torque app is converting the value correctly. Any chance you used this torque app prior to the problem and saw it correctly indicate 195 to 220 or so degrees F operating temperature when the engine was running correctly?

Can anyone confirm where the temperature indicator needle normally sits in its' display range when at operationg temperature with a 2.4L engine? Would think it would be similar to 3.3L/3.8L; however, it would be nice to confirm that. On my 3.8L it sits just under the 1/2 mark with a 195 degree thermostat and operating temperatures typically oscillating around 200 degrees or so as cooling fan operation and engine load changes.

Believe the Torque app can see/plot O2 sensor readings as well... might not be a bad idea to take a look at that as well.
 

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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hi ScuzziOne!

Thank you for your feedback, I hope that is the issue! Is there a way to test it? Will you know if the installed O2 sensor can be cleaned and put back?

I live in Costa Rica.. and it's really hard to find parts here for this vehicle -- to add to the challenge. I visited Florida last month and purchase the coolant, camshaft sensors as well as the valve cover seal to replace.

Thanks again sir!

Miles
 

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Let's see if anyone here can confirm where the temperature needle normally sits when fully warmed up with a 2.4L. It's odd to me that you are seeing a reading of 106 with Torque while needle indicates 1/2 mark or so but, again, I have a 3.8L so I'd like to hear from 2.4L owners. Am I interpreting your post correctly regarding temperature reading and instrument panel needle position?

Would think normal operating temperature would be 195 to 220 degrees F or so... with fan only coming on as it approaches 220 or so. On the 3.3L/3.8L there is only one temperature sensor that both determines the temperature indication on the dash and the temperature at which the cooling fans kick on. Given that you appear to be seing two different indications between the dash gauge and the Torque tool, I'm wondering if the 2.4L has two separate temperature sensors... one for the gauge and one for the fan control? Using two sensors is a pretty common setup on many cars... let me look in my parts listings to see if it shows two temperature sensors on the 2.4L.
 

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3rd gen > all others
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When it stalls, does it not start back up/run right away? Does the engine bay temperature have to be cooled off for it to run again? This symptom seems more like a crank sensor gone bad, as what happens on the V6 vans. If there is no spark after it stalls and you try to restart it right away, and the engine bay is hot, I'd suspect the crank sensor. The fan relay does nothing as far as killing the engine if it gets too hot - it will just let the engine overheat, so that is not the problem.
 
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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Yes, sir! You are. When the engine starts needle is all of the way down.. it goes up to the middle line at 106-7 degrees when the fan starts. It cools down to 95 and fans stop.

Just tested it.

Miles
 

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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Crank sensor is the only thing I have not inspected. I actually don't know where it is.

I tried searching for the ma_nuals but no luck.

I wonder when I do find the Csensor there's a way to test it to know if it's bad?

Thanks for your input Road Ripper (y)


Miles
 

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I can only find a single coolant temperature listed for the 2.4L as well. Any chance you are viewing the intake air temperature data instead of the coolant temperature data? From post #26, it sounds like the fan control is working now? Take a look in your Torque application and see if there's not more than one temperature reading... should be one for intake air temperature and one for coolant temperature.
 

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I'm thinking your Torque application is showing you the intake air temperature instead of coolant temperature... which would make more sense for the 95 to 106 degrees F reading range with the cooling fans still kicking on/off properly. If the PCM was actually seeing a reading that low, then the cooling fans would not turn on as they are.

If you can plot the O2 readings, you should see them cycling back and forth between rich/lean pretty regularly once they are warmed up properly. May be some good references around here somewhere regarding what a good O2 reading looks like versus a lazy/failed O2 sensor reading. In my experience, O2 sensors often will not be flagged as bad unless they are totally dead.

So, assuming your Torque tool is actually showing IAT instead of coolant temp and the engine is actually reaching operating temperature, then it seems like it could be a difference between "open loop" and "closed loop" operation or a sensor being affected by temperature as suggested by Road Ripper.

Assuming the 2.4L works like the 3.3L/3.8L, then the crankshaft sensor reads crank position from the outer ring of the flexplate so the sensor should be positioned somewhere along the flexplate outer ring. Just be careful about getting the camshaft and/or crankshaft sensors re-installed at the proper depth... I believe a shim is normally used on one of them to assure proper gapping between the sensor and what it is sensing.

The list of engine sensors that I can think of off-hand would include:

Coolant Temperature Sensor
Camshaft Position Sensor
Knock Sensor
Crankshaft Position Sensor
Oxygen Sensor, Upstream
Oxygen Sensor, Downstream
Manifold Pressure Sensor (MAP)
Throttle Position Sensor
Charge Air (Intake Air) Temperature Sensor

Not trying to identify sensors likely to cause the engine to stall out from overheating, but rather simply trying to provide a complete list for consideration.

Only other thing I can think of that might be related would be EGR valve, but I'm not sure whether that really makes sense for your situation or not. If you're lucky, you may not even have an EGR valve!
 

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2001, Dodge, Caravan SE, 2.4L
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hi ScuzziOne and marvinstockman,

You are absolutely correct! The Torque app was displaying C instead of F degrees. When converting it should be around 220.. My bad.

Jaded -- Excellent tip!!! Will do just that as soon as it dies!

Thank you everyone so much for your feedback and best advise!

Will be working tomorrow morning when Off from work.

Miles.


 
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