The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
21 - 40 of 71 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
228 Posts
I'd try dumping a bottle of Lukas or other PS stop leak in there before giving up on it, it won't work in long term but might give you a few days (if not used before)
That's the best suggestion I've heard so far other than just replacing the rack RIGHT NOW which is what I'd do. I've replaced at least 8 racks in minivans over the years. None are fun, some are a real PITA. Many "rebuilts" have proven to be leaky junk as soon as installed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
69 Posts
Meh, once you're moving, you don't really need the power assist that much.

When I was in high school, my dad had a well used Dodge Shadow. The rack went bad and would puke all the fluid out when turned to either extreme. He didn't feel like putting money into a car wthat was nearing the end of it's life, so we drove it for quite a while with no power assist.

My last full size truck didn't even come with power steering, and I managed just fine in it.;)
A vehicle that has manual steering is safe but a ps vehicle with the ps disabled is not safe. 2 completely different animals. Don't do it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
Surprisingly, 4th gens have pretty ok road feel considering the over assisted PS system. Definitely not the most disconnected vehicle I’ve driven. That credit goes to the Escalade/Suburban
 

·
3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Power steering is useless above maybe 30 miles per hour. It eats more power than your AC and Alternator combined at all times while the engine is running, whether you use the steering or not, and it costs 2-3 mpg.

I was planning on running an AC clutch hub or dog clutch on my power steering pump so it would automatically cut off at 20-35mpg.

I wouldnt call needing two hands to turn the steering wheel below 5mph "dangerous". What are you going to do, swerve to avoid something while going walking speed?

I had a 1964 Chevy Pickup for many years, no power anything and 4 wheel drum brakes. To turn while parking, you inch the vehicle. Roll an inch and you can easily turn the wheel a partial rotation, repeat, repeat, repeat.
With manual drums, you can tap the throttle to increase the grab of the self energizing drums.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: beat_truck

·
Drivin' Maniac
2002 Grand Caravan ES 3.8L
Joined
·
2,379 Posts
The PS pump DOES require fuel to run (reduced MPG, even when you aren't turning, or need a power assist).

that is one reason for the popularity of electric power assist on many newer cars.



Heck, before that, some cars had (of all things) a hydraulic pump driven by...an electric motor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,001 Posts
The PS pump DOES require fuel to run (reduced MPG, even when you aren't turning, or need a power assist).
Yes, but I highly doubt it eats 2-3 MPG worth of fuel. Unless maybe it's attached to some 3 or 4 cylinder sardine can. On some of them, especially the older ones, turning the A/C on is like throwing out an anchor, and it causes the MPG to tank. On a normal sized vehicle with an engine that actually has enough power to run it, the difference is negligible.
 

·
3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
The PS pump DOES require fuel to run (reduced MPG, even when you aren't turning, or need a power assist).

that is one reason for the popularity of electric power assist on many newer cars.



Heck, before that, some cars had (of all things) a hydraulic pump driven by...an electric motor.
It is the highest consumption parasitic load accessory after the water pump and engine oil pump.

Rectangle Font Number Parallel Circle
 
  • Helpful
Reactions: Carbuff2

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
Those say they’re peak numbers, and I’d believe them. No way does the power steering pump take that much power most of the time. Maybe when the steering is at lock — you can hear it load the engine then. I’d bet it’s no more than 1 or 2 hp when not turning the steering wheel.
 

·
Drivin' Maniac
2002 Grand Caravan ES 3.8L
Joined
·
2,379 Posts
I’d bet it’s no more than 1 or 2 hp when not turning the steering wheel.
OMG, 2 HP????? :eek: :p :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

When GM started fitting DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) in the early 1990s they said that they 'only' drained 1/2 HP. Telling that when GM submitted their cars for EPA fuel mileage testing back then, they disabled the DRLs. :rolleyes:

(Of course, GM also had specific engine tunes for the EPA tests then, run with the air conditioning turned off. Caddys ran MUCH better with the air ON, but were not smog-compliant. Precursor to VW's DieselGate.)

And we thought NASCAR race teams bent the rules whenever they could???? :whistle:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
OMG, 2 HP????? :eek: :p :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

When GM started fitting DRLs (Daytime Running Lights) in the early 1990s they said that they 'only' drained 1/2 HP. Telling that when GM submitted their cars for EPA fuel mileage testing back then, they disabled the DRLs. :rolleyes:

(Of course, GM also had specific engine tunes for the EPA tests then, run with the air conditioning turned off. Caddys ran MUCH better with the air ON, but were not smog-compliant. Precursor to VW's DieselGate.)

And we thought NASCAR race teams bent the rules whenever they could???? :whistle:
What’s your point?
 

·
3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
What’s your point?
It probably takes about 20 hp to cruise at highway speeds, so your optimistic 1-2 horsepower is still 5-10% of your fuel consumption. Our vans are old technology, they're probably either running a bypass valve in which case they're still pumping a large volume at all times, or else they're cavitating when not in use. The PS system is probably higher volume and higher pressure than the engine oil, it is always drawing a considerable amount of power on your van. More than the AC, more than the Alternator, possibly more than both put together. There's a reason newer cars have more expensive electric pumps.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: beat_truck

·
3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
It's 'just me'...I like our vehicle's power to be applied to ACCELERATION, not accessories. :devilish::geek:

:p
Well, the mass of those accessories will be applied to acceleration, if you drive down a really steep mountain or off of a cliff...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Pretty funny and revealing when some compare steering an oem manual steer vehicle to one that has power steering which has been disabled. There is NO valid comparison. I've owned plenty of manual steer vehicles and they were just fine but when disabling your power steering system the vehicle does not simply become a simple manual steer system.
Love to see these folks defending this in court. However, I hate court...
 

·
3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
Joined
·
1,403 Posts
Pretty funny and revealing when some compare steering an oem manual steer vehicle to one that has power steering which has been disabled. There is NO valid comparison. I've owned plenty of manual steer vehicles and they were just fine but when disabling your power steering system the vehicle does not simply become a simple manual steer system.
Love to see these folks defending this in court. However, I hate court...
Well yes, manual steering often has: greater gear reduction so there's more turns lock to lock, a greater diameter steering wheel, a lower inclination steering wheel so you can push and pull rather than physically turn the wheel.

But, manual steering and power steering are otherwise the same with the power steering pump disabled. Is it more difficult to steer, yes. But, steering effort decreases with velocity. I was taught to never to dry steer (turn the steering wheel while the vehicle is stationary), so PS is almost useless to me. 90 something percent of your driving, the PS system is just dead weight that's wasting gas.
 

·
fix it if you can
Joined
·
5,682 Posts
90 something percent of your driving, the PS system is just dead weight that's wasting gas.
So are seat belts, ABS, SRS, spare tire, jack, lug wrench, parking brake, excess fuel in the tank, (for you in TX) cabin heater, etc :)

And yet, you can't get a non-power steering rack - the clock spring won't allow one...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
155 Posts
It probably takes about 20 hp to cruise at highway speeds, so your optimistic 1-2 horsepower is still 5-10% of your fuel consumption. Our vans are old technology, they're probably either running a bypass valve in which case they're still pumping a large volume at all times, or else they're cavitating when not in use. The PS system is probably higher volume and higher pressure than the engine oil, it is always drawing a considerable amount of power on your van. More than the AC, more than the Alternator, possibly more than both put together. There's a reason newer cars have more expensive electric pumps.
It might be 5 to 10 percent of the fuel burned that actually propels the car at cruise, but not of the total fuel burned. More fuel by far produces waste heat and overcomes friction in the engine and drivetrain than actually drives the car. I’d believe 1 MPG loss due to PS, but I’m skeptical that it’s more than that. I don’t believe that the PS pump draws more power driving straight ahead than the air conditioning compressor. I’d need to see numbers.

Electric power steering doesn’t have a pump, it has a motor in the steering gear that provides assist torque directly. It has the potential to be a lot simpler and lighter — obviously good things. This is an example of things they’ve done after they already picked the low-hanging fruit. There was much more benefit to decreasing internal engine friction than going to electric power steering, thus roller lifters and low-tension rings.
 
21 - 40 of 71 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top