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Didn't you already state that it would be unsafe to even test steering side to side with the engine off??
No I didn’t say that its unsafe. Please stop lying about what I said.

Prior to this post - I only posted 4 posts in this thread and I did post my personal experience driving a power steering assisted vehicle with the power assist not working in two of those posts. Never did I say it’s unsafe to do so.

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1- PS delete

My second car was a 1971 Ford. This had power steering, power brakes and auto trans.

However the power steering pump went and I never fixed it. Have to agree with beat_truck - once you're moving, you don't really need the power assist that much. In fact I would argue that with non power assist you have more control of the steering at speed. Ever try to straighten your wheels real quick coming out of a turn? With non power assist you just let go of the steering wheel and it will straighten out for you – real quick.

That said for parking especially parallel parking – it can be a real work out and at my age now – I would fix the power steering pump on my caravan.

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2- PS delete

I guess it all comes down to driver’s skill. I have no intention of shutting off my van at speed and doing some crazy maneuver as I don’t believe its good for the vehicle.

However a few years ago when I was having fuel pump problems with my 1991 caravan – it would stall out on me from time to time for a few weeks ‘till I had the fuel pump replaced. Yeah I would merge out of traffic after a stall (you know in Vancouver you are at risk for road rage if stall you out in the middle of the road) Anyhow – no problems at all retaining control of the van after a stall.

I guess it all comes down to driver’s skill.:)

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My 4 previous posts can be seen here.


Now please immediately cease and desist your lying about what I wrote here.
 

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1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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I read that as Chrysler saying you can still 'kinda' steer if the system fails, not that it is OK to operate the vehicle as if it was operating. I see they also reference the increased effort
I read that as Chrysler saying you can still 'kinda' steer if the system fails, not that it is OK to operate the vehicle as if it was operating. I see they also reference the increased effort
There was no "kinda". The steering is still fully operational either way, except it will be "substantially more difficult, especially at low speeds or parking."

Your opinion is that you think you'd personally feel unsafe. My opinion is that personally I'd feel more safe. There's a reason why manual rack and pinion still exists, because you have far more feedback from the tires and can tell what they're doing. At any speed where safety should actually be a concern, what you call 'the ability to swerve' is actually just your ability to lose control of the vehicle because you're pushing the tires beyond their capabilities. We have ABS, not stability control, swerving while getting on the brakes because they have no clue what the tires are doing, is what gets people killed.
 

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No I didn’t say that its unsafe. Please stop lying about what I said.

Prior to this post - I only posted 4 posts in this thread and I did post my personal experience driving a power steering assisted vehicle with the power assist not working in two of those posts. Never did I say it’s unsafe to do so.

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1- PS delete

My second car was a 1971 Ford. This had power steering, power brakes and auto trans.

However the power steering pump went and I never fixed it. Have to agree with beat_truck - once you're moving, you don't really need the power assist that much. In fact I would argue that with non power assist you have more control of the steering at speed. Ever try to straighten your wheels real quick coming out of a turn? With non power assist you just let go of the steering wheel and it will straighten out for you – real quick.

That said for parking especially parallel parking – it can be a real work out and at my age now – I would fix the power steering pump on my caravan.

---------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------

2- PS delete

I guess it all comes down to driver’s skill. I have no intention of shutting off my van at speed and doing some crazy maneuver as I don’t believe its good for the vehicle.

However a few years ago when I was having fuel pump problems with my 1991 caravan – it would stall out on me from time to time for a few weeks ‘till I had the fuel pump replaced. Yeah I would merge out of traffic after a stall (you know in Vancouver you are at risk for road rage if stall you out in the middle of the road) Anyhow – no problems at all retaining control of the van after a stall.

I guess it all comes down to driver’s skill.:)

---------------------------------------------------

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My 4 previous posts can be seen here.


Now please immediately cease and desist your lying about what I wrote here.
"shutting off my van at speed and doing some crazy maneuver as I don’t believe its good for the vehicle"
Yup, that's close enough for me...."some crazy maneuver"
Sorry if that rattled you so much. I do note that nobody has yet done their own research....aka shut it off and try an evasive maneuver with recovery. I flog the dead horse because the same nonsense is repeated.
Why not try it and report back?
 

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I flog the dead horse because the same nonsense is repeated.
Funny, the only one here repeating (and repeating and repeating and repeating) the EXACT same nonsense is YOU. It's getting old, BTW.
Why not try it and report back?
Nobody here needs do squat or "report back" to you just because you keep telling (and telling and telling and telling) them to do so.

Besides, this is the internet.... how would you know that somebody's "reporting back" was the truth, either way. ;)
 

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My only question for OP is why would PS pump pulley seize if the pump does no work with no fluid in it? AFAIK, the bearings are sealed on these pump so it's not like it's getting lubrication from ATF+4? (or am I wrong?)
I’m not aware of any P/S pump that has bearings at all. The shaft runs in bushings or the housing itself, definitely lubricated by the fluid.
 

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1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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"shutting off my van at speed and doing some crazy maneuver as I don’t believe its good for the vehicle"
Yup, that's close enough for me...."some crazy maneuver"
Sorry if that rattled you so much. I do note that nobody has yet done their own research....aka shut it off and try an evasive maneuver with recovery. I flog the dead horse because the same nonsense is repeated.
Why not try it and report back?
Most of us have driven at least a vehicle with failed power steering, or vehicles with factory manual steering at some point. The problem with "just shutting off the engine while driving", is that the power brakes stop working also, and it's possible to lock the steering column if you turn the key off. Power assist is not optional with 4 wheel disc brakes, drums don't need a brake booster but discs do.,

It would be fallacious of me to base my argument on an appeal to authority, but I can't go out and run your "test" because I have about $15k worth of high performance parts which did not come from the factory to finish installing onto my van. I want to clutch my power steering pulley in order to have manual steering at moderate to high speeds, because it's an excellent addition to my 100% non factory front suspension, chassis bracing, solid/poly mounts, 2" drop, etc. Your "Research" of flipping the key off is clever, no sarcasm, but I'm fine with just modifying my entire van to non-oem as research instead.
 

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Nobody here needs do squat or "report back" to you just because you keep telling (and telling and telling and telling) them to do so.

Besides, this is the internet.... how would you know that somebody's "reporting back" was the truth, either way. ;)
I never said they had to report back to me. I simply said form your opinion AFTER you've done the test, a challenge nobody on your side of the equation seems willing or able to accept. I don't doubt what they would encounter and would not further challenge them after they actually did the test.
BTW, I really hope that anyone doing this would know how to shut the engine off without engaging the steering lock. And for those that don't know, you don't lose the brakes right away, you'll still have power brake assist for a couple of pumps, unlike the power steering. ...Good Grief Charlie Brown!!
 

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3rd Gen Plebeian
1997 Plymouth Grand Voyager Rallye
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1,403 Posts
I never said they had to report back to me. I simply said form your opinion AFTER you've done the test, a challenge nobody on your side of the equation seems willing or able to accept. I don't doubt what they would encounter and would not further challenge them after they actually did the test.
BTW, I really hope that anyone doing this would know how to shut the engine off without engaging the steering lock. And for those that don't know, you don't lose the brakes right away, you'll still have power brake assist for a couple of pumps, unlike the power steering. ...Good Grief Charlie Brown!!
So, unless everyone performs your test, their opinions and arguments are invalid? I just said in my last post that it'd be "fallacious of me to base my argument on an appeal to authority", but that appears to be your entire argument. You've invented these false credentials and are insinuating that nobody else can have a factual position unless they also obtain your credentials?

To be fair, nobody on "your side of the argument" is willing or able to accept the challenge of deleting their power steering pump and installing a manual rack. How about you form your opinion after you install a manual rack. I don't doubt what you would encounter and would not further challenge you after you actually swapped the rack.

It's pretty easy to lock the steering if the transmission is in neutral. There were a lot of remarks about the steering being unsafe without the power steering pump, downright dangerous, but someone else would be a fool to be concerned about potential issues with the brake booster or the steering column locking?
 
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I think this has gone on long enough. This thread is now closed.
 
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