Last Tuesday I installed a bottle of Chevron fuel injection cleaner. The 3.3 was running fine before I did, but I thought I was doing some preventative maintenance. About 10 minutes of running, the engine started missing. This continued, even after I drove over 100 miles yesterday. Today I pulled the front 3 spark plugs, and they are Autolite Iridiums. Two were gapped at .050, but one was a little loose, gap wise, so I re gapped it. I put a little anti seize on the threads after wire brushing them, and swabbed some dielectric grease on the insides of the plug boots and reinstalled them. It ran no better. This van has about 200K+ on it and has ran well, I get around 25+ mpg on the highway. Any ideas what could be causing this?
slapshot
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I just did a set of fuel injectors. I looked into trying to clean my own, off the vehicle. I have a hundred some odd thousand miles on the odometer.
Each injector has a 10 micron filter basket on each inlet and is about the size of the cone tip 3/8" of a sharpened pencil. I have ascertained that is is near impossible to clean these filters and they are press fit into the inlet for a one time use.
The injectors are easy enough to remove and after a bunch of research, I believe that the only correct way for them to be restored is to send them out to be flow checked, ultrasonically cleaned and then flow checked again.
I even considered getting a machine to perform all those steps in my home shop and to make the cleaning services available to friends and local automotive repair shops.
I found there are many offerings online, eBay and even your local craigslist. The average is $25 each making a 6 cylinder cost about three days and additional $7 shipping to the service provider. For $25 they should pay the return shipping. So $135
I found a company in Idaho, Mr Injector, that I would use if I don't end up getting a machine. You see, I have over 40 injectors in service and that adds up to over a grand to service all of my injectors. I can get a new china built machine and the fluid, cost for about $600, and i'll be able to perform my own warranty work... Of course, I suspect this machine is going to be of the quality I would expect from Harbor Freight tools.
Mr Injector's machine is closer to a ten thousand dollar set up. He offers his service for $17.50 each plus $7 return shipping. You can virtually meet him and tour his shop by YouTube "Professional fuel injector service"
Each injector has a 10 micron filter basket on each inlet and is about the size of the cone tip 3/8" of a sharpened pencil. I have ascertained that is is near impossible to clean these filters and they are press fit into the inlet for a one time use.
The injectors are easy enough to remove and after a bunch of research, I believe that the only correct way for them to be restored is to send them out to be flow checked, ultrasonically cleaned and then flow checked again.
I even considered getting a machine to perform all those steps in my home shop and to make the cleaning services available to friends and local automotive repair shops.
I found there are many offerings online, eBay and even your local craigslist. The average is $25 each making a 6 cylinder cost about three days and additional $7 shipping to the service provider. For $25 they should pay the return shipping. So $135
I found a company in Idaho, Mr Injector, that I would use if I don't end up getting a machine. You see, I have over 40 injectors in service and that adds up to over a grand to service all of my injectors. I can get a new china built machine and the fluid, cost for about $600, and i'll be able to perform my own warranty work... Of course, I suspect this machine is going to be of the quality I would expect from Harbor Freight tools.
Mr Injector's machine is closer to a ten thousand dollar set up. He offers his service for $17.50 each plus $7 return shipping. You can virtually meet him and tour his shop by YouTube "Professional fuel injector service"
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What I was thinking last night, was that your Techron (and others have advised this also) may have caused something to dislodge or scoured the interior of the fuel pipes, hoses, tank, etc... causing the injectors to partially clog.
Here are the filters that are at each injector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401109570614
These probably captured the majority of any debris as that is their intention. These parts are replaced during off vehicle, mail order, injector cleaning service.
If this is really your problem, you may be able to replace these filters yourself, but seeing that you have the injectors in hand, why not just send them out to restore their performance to near new?
Let us consider, that as happenstance has it, that it is just a coincidence that you happened to dose your fuel with Techron within 25 miles that something else went wrong. ARE YOU CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING AN IGNITION FAULT?
There is also a common design fault that has the fuel injector wiring hazardously close to being baked by the exhaust. That may be your fault and that is how I stumbled into my injector odyssey, my van was running rough, hard to start, and I decided to check my fuel injector wiring harness before it damaged my computer.
Here are a set of injectors that are already cleaned and flow matched that you could have in hand before you even start. (Less than $15 each)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Si...acifica-3-8/111303546589?epid=1228634784&hash=item19ea3556dd:g:n5YAAOSwkjpZxBU1
** I found that you will want to look at the existing fuel injectors and see what color stripe you have (you can see these are bluish grey) make sure you order the same stripe color as there are subtle differences) Amazon also has some injectors available online. I ordered a set from there based on year, make, model that did not match color or performance. I will replace mine again with the gray ones that I removed or have my original ones serviced. *AVOID the Chinese knock off injectors. get Siemans DEKA (OEM)
Here are the filters that are at each injector.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/401109570614
These probably captured the majority of any debris as that is their intention. These parts are replaced during off vehicle, mail order, injector cleaning service.
If this is really your problem, you may be able to replace these filters yourself, but seeing that you have the injectors in hand, why not just send them out to restore their performance to near new?
Let us consider, that as happenstance has it, that it is just a coincidence that you happened to dose your fuel with Techron within 25 miles that something else went wrong. ARE YOU CERTAIN THAT YOU ARE NOT EXPERIENCING AN IGNITION FAULT?
There is also a common design fault that has the fuel injector wiring hazardously close to being baked by the exhaust. That may be your fault and that is how I stumbled into my injector odyssey, my van was running rough, hard to start, and I decided to check my fuel injector wiring harness before it damaged my computer.
Here are a set of injectors that are already cleaned and flow matched that you could have in hand before you even start. (Less than $15 each)
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Si...acifica-3-8/111303546589?epid=1228634784&hash=item19ea3556dd:g:n5YAAOSwkjpZxBU1
** I found that you will want to look at the existing fuel injectors and see what color stripe you have (you can see these are bluish grey) make sure you order the same stripe color as there are subtle differences) Amazon also has some injectors available online. I ordered a set from there based on year, make, model that did not match color or performance. I will replace mine again with the gray ones that I removed or have my original ones serviced. *AVOID the Chinese knock off injectors. get Siemans DEKA (OEM)
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I did catch that and thought I had put in a 3.3 link prior to posting, sorry.
I do stand by replacing like with like. So if you go that route, make sure that you get what was installed (check the color band or part number)
I mistakenly sourced injectors based on make and model and later found that they had a different specification.
And, I wouldn't get the aftermarket clone injectors I'd stay with OEM.
Atoman is 100% correct that troubleshooting should start with the basics and we should not get too far ahead of ourselves based on assumptions. I would not tear anything apart before I tried running on a source of known good fuel 1st.
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No, that would be my bright idea....
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:Wow1:
Maybe, make sure you disconnect the cables at the battery and not the chassis before you connect them together...
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My 3.8L with 114,000 that was maintained by a (chrysler dealership) for my mom appeared to still have the original sparkplugs in the rear bank. When I replaced them, two were gapped nickle, meaning that it appeared that the edge of a nickle could be used as a gap gauge.
I took the fuel rail and snapped in the injectors. Then I connected and hung a 4 foot piece of fuel hose which I filled with mineral spirits from under a step ladder. This worked as a fuel tank. I put shop air at 45 PSI (3 bar) on the hose to simulate the designed fuel pressure from the pump and used the injector wire harness to excite the individual injectors from a 9 volt battery. There is one common ground and an individual contact in the plug for each injector.
I had three good spray patterns, two split streams, and one that sprayed sideways. All six worked and the coil ohm resistance was consistent. They were obviously due to be cleaned or replaced.
I also checked, that when closed, that they didn't form a drip (an injector leak).
I was curious to see how bad they were. I also performed this on my replacement set and was satisfied that they were all serviceable.
The van ran... runs great after I found that one hidden evac hose that I forgot to connect on the passenger side, backside, down low. I found it with a smoke generator after twice looking for the vacuum leak by reassembly of the plenum.
I took the fuel rail and snapped in the injectors. Then I connected and hung a 4 foot piece of fuel hose which I filled with mineral spirits from under a step ladder. This worked as a fuel tank. I put shop air at 45 PSI (3 bar) on the hose to simulate the designed fuel pressure from the pump and used the injector wire harness to excite the individual injectors from a 9 volt battery. There is one common ground and an individual contact in the plug for each injector.
I had three good spray patterns, two split streams, and one that sprayed sideways. All six worked and the coil ohm resistance was consistent. They were obviously due to be cleaned or replaced.
I also checked, that when closed, that they didn't form a drip (an injector leak).
I was curious to see how bad they were. I also performed this on my replacement set and was satisfied that they were all serviceable.
The van ran... runs great after I found that one hidden evac hose that I forgot to connect on the passenger side, backside, down low. I found it with a smoke generator after twice looking for the vacuum leak by reassembly of the plenum.
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Try silicon spray. might give you the slippery lubricity and it is safe on rubber.
I had more typed out but again, I deleted my post by pushing the too convenient "Reply to Thread" button instead of the post quick reply.... dumkof
I had more typed out but again, I deleted my post by pushing the too convenient "Reply to Thread" button instead of the post quick reply.... dumkof
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Ok, so there is a miss, and we can assume it is no longer a PCV valve, a spark plug, ignition wire, or injector.
Lets try to deduce what cylinder it is, and then prove that it is in fact that cylinder. Then we can perform some tests, swap some things (one thing at a time) around, and determine the discrepancy.
Do you remember pulling a spark plug (or more) and finding it all wet and greasy looking?
Do the 3.3L engines use the same ignition coil as the 3.8? Did you get the ignition wires on the right posts of the coil? They are numbered on my 3.8 coil and the rear three are not aligned like the front three.
Review diagram.
http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/4dfcfcf.jpg
I have a pair of plastic plier like grippers for pulling high voltage ignition wires. You could loosen the ignition wires at the coil (pushed on but not clicked on) and while the engine is running pull them individually, and then put them back on, until you find one that does not make a difference. That one would be the one that is not firing (missing). You can do it without plastic pliers but you risk getting shocked...
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-51600-Spark-Plug-Puller/dp/B000I14RXM
Actually there is a way to use bare hands on steel pliers without insulation or gloves... You have to fashion a ground wire for your pliers to the chassis of the vehicle. This way any spark that might occur will path through that wire instead of you. AND, dont stand in a puddle or have your other hand touching anything on the vehicle.
(I used this technique to wire a 9000 volt neon sign when I could not turn off the power and had to complete the job before driving a hundred miles back to the shop.) I didn't even feel a tickle, but I sure did smell some ozone.
If you are unsure how electricity likes to take the path of least resistance or do not understand how the ground wire will protect you, then do not attempt this, and it is probably prudent to have an observer that can shut off the vehicle BEFORE trying CPR.... Just saying
Lets try to deduce what cylinder it is, and then prove that it is in fact that cylinder. Then we can perform some tests, swap some things (one thing at a time) around, and determine the discrepancy.
Do you remember pulling a spark plug (or more) and finding it all wet and greasy looking?
Do the 3.3L engines use the same ignition coil as the 3.8? Did you get the ignition wires on the right posts of the coil? They are numbered on my 3.8 coil and the rear three are not aligned like the front three.
Review diagram.
http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/4dfcfcf.jpg
I have a pair of plastic plier like grippers for pulling high voltage ignition wires. You could loosen the ignition wires at the coil (pushed on but not clicked on) and while the engine is running pull them individually, and then put them back on, until you find one that does not make a difference. That one would be the one that is not firing (missing). You can do it without plastic pliers but you risk getting shocked...
https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-51600-Spark-Plug-Puller/dp/B000I14RXM
Actually there is a way to use bare hands on steel pliers without insulation or gloves... You have to fashion a ground wire for your pliers to the chassis of the vehicle. This way any spark that might occur will path through that wire instead of you. AND, dont stand in a puddle or have your other hand touching anything on the vehicle.
(I used this technique to wire a 9000 volt neon sign when I could not turn off the power and had to complete the job before driving a hundred miles back to the shop.) I didn't even feel a tickle, but I sure did smell some ozone.
If you are unsure how electricity likes to take the path of least resistance or do not understand how the ground wire will protect you, then do not attempt this, and it is probably prudent to have an observer that can shut off the vehicle BEFORE trying CPR.... Just saying
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That too, I imagine if you could test the fuel pressure at the fuel rail, i believe it should be about 45 PSI (3 bar)
Levy, Is that fuel strainer in the fuel tank? A sock that is part of the fuel pump fuel level sending assembly?
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Hey slapshot,
You could do my test without risking any shock too...
If you just disconnect one ignition wire at the coil and start the van, note how it runs, and shut it back off.
By process of elimination, after six tries you are bound to know what cylinder (s) are not making a difference when disconnected.
Then it is all "Suck, Bang, Blow"
Cheers!
You could do my test without risking any shock too...
If you just disconnect one ignition wire at the coil and start the van, note how it runs, and shut it back off.
By process of elimination, after six tries you are bound to know what cylinder (s) are not making a difference when disconnected.
Then it is all "Suck, Bang, Blow"
Cheers!
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