[ScuzziOne]

I'm a bit "down" on the KYB struts for our application. I've always been happy with KYB in the past and I like the stiffness and ride height, but I just can't keep them quiet and functioning properly. I've got a 2005 with KYB struts and a similar sounding clunk on the driver's side. Replaced the driver side strut once due to the lower spring pad "popping out" and, so far, the pad has stayed in place on the replacement; however, I still have a similar clunk that I'm pretty sure is the strut.

I really think the spring on the SR4039 might just be too short and not provide significant resistance at full extension? If I go over a bump that causes the front end to rise to what is at or close to full extension on the struts, then I seem to get a hard "impact" jolt on the driver side as the front end comes back down. Again, thinking the spring is simply not resisting and strut is "locking" momentarily due to rapid compression as the front end comes back down... causing an excessive jolt. Figure this may also explain how the lower pad escaped on the first one... particularly if the center nut was loose at the time to make the problem worse.

One thing to check is the strut rod center nut being tight as my experience with the KYBs is that the strut rod nut tends to back off, ending up loose and causing some noise on bumps. Ended up snugging them with an impact wrench and that seems to have helped, but my front left noise/jolt on larger jounces is something else.

Just out of curiosity, do you remember what part number was placed on what side of the van? I've got SR4038 on the front right (passenger) side and SR4039 on the front left (driver) side, so it's the SR4039 I'm having issues with. With center rod nut tightened, SR4038 seems to be happy on the passenger side. Thought maybe I had them installed on the wrong sides initially, but I followed up with KYB tech support on this and, following that conversation, it does appear I have them where KYB intended them to be.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Front suspension low-speed clunking on mine has always boiled down to the sway bar bushings, the end links, the strut center nut being loose, and/or the strut spring seat being out of place.

Only other bushings I can think of in the front suspension triangle would be the front suspension cradle bushings between cradle frame and body, but I've not heard of anyone complaining about that being a source of noise. Might be worth taking a peak at them though...

Just for grins, check the bottom spring cushion on the strut to make sure it hasn't "squirted" out from under the spring, allowing the spring to contact the metal strut seat directly... which is what happened on my first SR4039, causing spring to metal seat clunking.

Here's a thread with a picture showing normal versus "popped" lower spring seat... coincidentally, also on KYBs:

Front Strut Lower Isolator Bushing Moved | The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums

 

[ScuzziOne]

Sway bar bushing selection has always been a great topic of debate as well regarding noises.

Personally, I have the MOOG K200601s on mine and have been happy with them.

I've attached a MOOG ProblemSolver bulletin regarding our sway bar bushings.

And here's much related discussion:

Sway bar bushings again or something else.

First - Whats the Best lasting sway bar bushings for 05 T/C? Oriely's lasted 15,000. Then used Moog blue from Advance with Moogs links too. Only 10,000 on them, and I think its that same clucky noise again. Can feel in in the floor with feet. Has newer struts and tie rods. Stock ball...

www.chryslerminivan.net

 

[ScuzziOne]

And, these other MOOG problem solvers show that there have been numerous revisions to these bushings in attempts of solving this issue. Interestingly, you can even see a difference in the K200601 shown in these PDFs versus the one I posted earlier. Moog is bad about changing the design without changing the part numbers... which I've also experienced with their end-link design changing while the part number remained the same.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Dry Poly bushings are very squeaky without lubrication... and lubrication applied on install only last so long before you have to re-apply to combat recurrent squeaking. I guess that's why they want you to use that pine-sap like grease in hopes that it will stick around longer than other lubrication types.

I know folks that have gone to the trouble of modifying normal poly bushing setups to provide "grease runs" in the bushings and grease bungs in the bushing brackets to allow lubrication to be routinely pushed into the bushing interfaces with a grease gun.

Now, there are some newer poly compounds that are considered self-lubricating and that's what you want if you're going with poly bushings.

 

[ScuzziOne]

No good suggestions here on torquing the bottom link nut, but you can (well, I did) hit the strut rod center nut from above with an impact by removing the windshield wiper tray to get it out of the way.

Tried a lot of different ways to tighten that strut rod nut, but it's seemingly a pretty big PITA any other way as you have to both hold the center rod still while you crank on the nut. I had worked out a contraption for doing it manually on the factory struts, but KYB changed the nut size on their aftermarket struts so my old contraption was no good and my attempts at a new setup for the KYB nut size was a fail. That's when I finally got ticked off and used an impact directly... with a torque limiting extension.

Anyway, seemed to work pretty well using an impact with a deep well socket and "torque limiting" extension bar.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Did you ever check/re-torque the strut rud nut in the center "hole" of the upper strut tower mounts? Though I'd think any noise from this would be higher up than the footwell, but sometimes noise location is hard to nail down.

This same strut rod mounting location should also be checked for rust... believe some folks have had that mounting point totally rust out and set the strut rod free.

Hmmm... with a quick gander back through this thread, I see you noted the struts are new, so rust shouldn't be the issue...

Only other things that make sense in that area would be the sub-frame bushings, which I see you did mention at one point. Did you get a good look at both sets of sub-frame/cradle bushings on each side? There's one to the rear of each wheel well on each side and one at the top of the cradle behind the strut on each side. It was the rectangular one at the top of the wheel well that seemed to collapse/crush/fail oddly on my 2005 T&C...

How's the condition of your engine mounts, particularly at the rear and on the passenger side? My apologies if engine mounts were already covered and I missed it... this thread has grown quite long and I only did a skim review!

 

[ScuzziOne]

(kind of makes me wonder if that's a motor mount)

Rear motor mount is bad about degrading to the point of the center bolt/sleeve making direct contact with the aluminum mount body. On my 2005 3.8L, my rear mount was metal on metal by about 225,000 miles... at which time I replaced all four mounts.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Absolutely could not keep my KYB strut assemblies quiet on my 2005... particularly on large jounce/bounce, as you've noted. Noise on mine always seemed like it was higher up in the strut tower area though.

Recently moved on to OEM assemblies (2AMST010AA), seemingly available for the 2005 to 2007 model years only, and things have been blissfully silent since... albeit a softer ride compared to the KYBs. Not sure why it's a single part number, apparently for both sides, as the service manual carries on about counter-wound springs for opposite sides, IIRC, but who knows. IIRC, the KYBs are also not counter-wound. Interestingly, KYB does not recommed their quick struts for the 2006-2007 model years... combined with the mystery 2005-2007 OEM replacement assembly, this makes me think something changed in 2005 or mid-model-year 2005.

Never had any noise from my wiper tray, but it couldn't hurt to check the bolts and nuts securing the tray to the chassis.

My swaybar bushings have the nylon insert... which I figure allows the bar to rotate without stick/slip noises.

Only other thing I can think of is to make sure all your torques are to spec and your strut-to-knuckle bolts/nuts are in good condition (not galled/seized like mine were).

I would also recommend installing the newer eccentric camber adjusting bolt sets at the knuckle if you've not already done so and your current ones are standard bolts. Maybe the earlier vans came with these from the factory, but my 2005 certainly did not. Most (if not all) replacement struts available for our application are slotted for eccentric head camber adjustment bolts, whereas the originals were apparently not and the manufacturer used standard bolts instead... making the original install a fixed camber setup. Again, this was on a mid-model-year tracking 2005... other model years may vary.

If your original/existing knuckle bolts/nuts are galled/seized like mine were, this is probably a good excuse to put on a new set anyway... as poor condition knuckle bolts/nuts will not tighten properly with original torque specifications and may, thus, allow unintended movement at the stut to knuckle interface due to the slotted strut mounting holes.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

Thanks

2AMST010AA is a complete "quick strut" type assembly... and the strut does feature the "elongated" strut mounting hole for eccentric bolt head adjustable camber.

Best I can tell from chrysler dealer online parts lookups, there appear to be two different left/right specific struts listed for 4th gen vans prior to 2005, but only one strut listed for 4th gen 2005 to 2007, without a side specification. Based on that, it would seem there was a design change somewhere around the 2005 time-frame... wondering if it wasn't part of the mid-model year tracking design changes that happened in mid-2005. Would love further clarification on this; however, after two different KYB struts gave me trouble on the left-front I decided to give these OEMs a try... putting them on both sides. They arrived "clocked" for the driver's side (left side), so I had to rotate the upper mount on one of them 180 degrees to place it on the passenger (right) side. Right or wrong, everything seems OK so far. The ride is definitely softer than the KYBs, but at least it has been 100% quiet.

Interestingly, KYB does not list their quick-struts as applicable for the 2006 to 2007 model years, but they do for the 2005 and earlier 4th gen. All I can say is that the left KYB struts installed on my mid-model-year-tracking 2005 were seemingly never happy. First one I installed "popped out" the lower spring pad and made noise all the time regardless of tightening the strut rod nut. Second one did not pop the pad and, once the strut rod nut was tightened, seemed OK except for large jounce events where the return induced what appeared to be "jarring" strut resistance... as if the spring was simply not providing any resistance following large jounce extension and the strut was initially locking up hard on start of return. Personally, I don't think these KYBs should be recommended for the mid-model-year 2005 and later 4th gen vans, but I don't know about the early 2005s. Cut in as part of the 2005 the mid-model-year changes might explain the apparent applicability confusion between what dealer sites indicate and what KYB's application recommendation reflects.

Would love to hear from somebody at Chrysler who could authoritatively clear up the mystery... but not holding my breath for that to happen!

 

[ScuzziOne]

Some noises on the KYB quick struts can generally be reduced by making sure the strut rod nut down in the hole of the upper mount is tight... I hit mine with a torque gun using torque limiting extension bars to eliminate all but the extreme jounce clunk I posted about. Unfortunately, you have to remove the wiper try to do this... or, at least I did.

Eventually dumped the KYBs and got a set of OEM... which did eliminate all clunking but I now have low speed turn upper strut bearing noises on both sides, which is still an improvement in my book but frustrating.

 

[ScuzziOne]

That's the great challenge... I've come up with only one contraption that worked for only one set of struts I had and that was to use a socket within a deep well socket that had a "top nut" (similar to a spark plug socket), allowing me to use an extension for the inner socket and a wrench on the outer socket. Next set of struts had different size nuts and I could not find a similar deep well socket for that size... so, that's why I ended up using an impact wrench instead, along with torque limiting extensions.

The impact with torque limiting extensions seemed to work fairly well; however, maybe somebody else here will have a better idea.

 

[ScuzziOne]

Per the 2005 service manual, "strut shaft nut" specification is 75 ft-lbs (100 N-M). Let us know how it goes!

Apparently we are supposed to use something like this:

Kent-Moore CH-50732 | Strut Rod Nut Socket 18 mm-KMCH-50732A

www.autotoolworld.com

Don't know the nut size off-hand though...

OEM tool is Strut Rod Nut Wrench 6864!

Here's one on ebay (May not match KYB Nut though...):

MILLER TOOL 6864 STRUT NUT WRENCH | eBay

 

[ScuzziOne]

Almost looks like an 02 Sensor Socket

I tried O2 sockets, but the slot allows the socket to spread and slip on the nut. Needs to be a solid deep well socket that allows you to get a socket extension down the middle for a smaller socket insdie to hold the rod while you turn the outer socket. More like a spark plug socket...

 

[ScuzziOne]

Bang for the buck, a kit like this MIGHT be the answer:

47pc Shock Absorber Tool Kit Suspension Top Mount Strut Nut Removal Tool Set | eBay

1 x 3.5mm Fit for chrysler, Ford, Fit for Citroen". One Font Socket 1 x 6mm Fit for Seat, Fit for Fiat, Fit for Citroen, Fit for Peugot, Ford, Fit for Fit for opell, Fit for Renault, japanese Car.

www.ebay.com

Or this one that looks like it MIGHT be a little better quality:

43Pc Turnbuckle Shock Absorber Strut Nut Installation Removal Kit 14-27mm Socket | eBay

Sockets with a wide range of sizes including 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 24 and 27mm sockets. Tool kit allows the removal of the top suspension nut by holding the strut piston so it doesn't rotate while turning the nut.

www.ebay.com