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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
Rear motor mount is bad about degrading to the point of the center bolt/sleeve making direct contact with the aluminum mount body. On my 2005 3.8L, my rear mount was metal on metal by about 225,000 miles... at which time I replaced all four mounts.
I probably ought to do this, as I wouldn't be surprised if they were completely bare at this point.

I was changing my end links again today (as I butchered the last ones) and was playing around with the sway bar and noticing, I can't really get it to move at all, even levering on it. I'm not exactly sure how tight it ought to be, but I'm kind of wondering if maybe the bushings that hold it to the vehicle are too tight? Perhaps the bar itself isn't able to actually move freely up and down as needed.

I was thinking maybe I should try putting some washers on the bolts so that it isn't held so tightly and maybe that might make a difference.

Other thing I just recently noticed is that when I'm getting the loudest clunks, it seems like it may be the windshield wiper bouncing up and down over large bumps. I haven't driven with it lifted yet just to see how it affects things.

At any rate, I couldn't let this problem go just yet.

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Absolutely could not keep my KYB strut assemblies quiet on my 2005... particularly on large jounce/bounce, as you've noted. Noise on mine always seemed like it was higher up in the strut tower area though.

Recently moved on to OEM assemblies (2AMST010AA), seemingly available for the 2005 to 2007 model years only, and things have been blissfully silent since... albeit a softer ride compared to the KYBs. Not sure why it's a single part number, apparently for both sides, as the service manual carries on about counter-wound springs for opposite sides, IIRC, but who knows. IIRC, the KYBs are also not counter-wound. Interestingly, KYB does not recommed their quick struts for the 2006-2007 model years... combined with the mystery 2005-2007 OEM replacement assembly, this makes me think something changed in 2005 or mid-model-year 2005.

Never had any noise from my wiper tray, but it couldn't hurt to check the bolts and nuts securing the tray to the chassis.

My swaybar bushings have the nylon insert... which I figure allows the bar to rotate without stick/slip noises.

Only other thing I can think of is to make sure all your torques are to spec and your strut-to-knuckle bolts/nuts are in good condition (not galled/seized like mine were).

I would also recommend installing the newer eccentric camber adjusting bolt sets at the knuckle if you've not already done so and your current ones are standard bolts. Maybe the earlier vans came with these from the factory, but my 2005 certainly did not. Most (if not all) replacement struts available for our application are slotted for eccentric head camber adjustment bolts, whereas the originals were apparently not and the manufacturer used standard bolts instead... making the original install a fixed camber setup. Again, this was on a mid-model-year tracking 2005... other model years may vary.

If your original/existing knuckle bolts/nuts are galled/seized like mine were, this is probably a good excuse to put on a new set anyway... as poor condition knuckle bolts/nuts will not tighten properly with original torque specifications and may, thus, allow unintended movement at the stut to knuckle interface due to the slotted strut mounting holes.
 

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Recently moved on to OEM assemblies (2AMST010AA), seemingly available for the 2005 to 2007 model years only,
Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

The KYBs I installed have been quiet after I retorqued and used green loctite on the top center bolt. Granted it's only been 6 months. I was pretty alarmed by how loose they were (several full turns w/ no resistance) when I found them clunking.

Thanks
 

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The bushings aren't noisy unless they slip. The slip marks and scale can be seen on the nylon? inserts of old used bushings.
The inserts are just another half asked solution that Chrysler tried rather than change the bar or bushing bracket assembly.
- Mopar original rubber bushings for early 4th Generations, and prior generations, were rubber, that's it. They seemed to work ok for the 3rd Generation and there's no insert bushing available for that Generation.
  • for the 4th Generation, not so good, the failure process was a dry squeak (slippage) for a few weeks followed by clunking (unstrained bushing dampening/looseness due to wear)
  • bushings with an abrasive cloth bonded to the inner face of the bushing were tried - didn't last long. Mopar 3024AD, I believe. The MOOG bushings for the 5th Generation have a look alike system.
MOOG K201876
Automotive tire Natural material Font Rock Fashion accessory


  • thermoplastic bushings - weren't a reliable solution either
  • polyurethane bushings that were hard, very little dampening by the bushing, designed to slip, and required special lubricant. Aftermarket and not popular for some reason.
  • Mopar bushings with nylon? inserts using the same rubber bushing as previously used. This provided tighter fit and some additional measure of wearability. What else could they have used to tighten up the system a smidgen? derelin? metal? Somewhat better, but not the answer. Nylon surfaces click against each other on slow turns and they wear if the friction, required for dampening, doesn't hold, causing clunking similar to loose sway bar links.
  • Mopar bushings with nylon? inserts using the same rubber bushing as previously used PLUS a white paste like material (lubricant?) between the insert and bushing. What were they thinking? This faulty solution wasn't available for long either.
  • Mopar and MOOG both say no lubruicant to be used with their insert or rubber or thermoplastic bushings. That's lubricant with a big X through it. This is a non slip designed dampening system, at least in theory. There are a half dozen or so sway bar system designs, some allowed to slip (hence lubricated somehow), some not (fixed somehow). For the 4th Generation vans, and many other Chrysler sway bar applications, like my Jeep, that system design is "fixed" using compression bonding. They missed the mark for the 4th Generation.
I think the articulation of the sway bar links plays into the problem as well. The struts move the links, on my Jeep the links are fastened to the rigid frame, a little less complicated. Perhaps the only solution is a complete new sway bar assembly system, including links, bar, bushings, brackets that will last for a few years at least.
 

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Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

Thanks
2AMST010AA is a complete "quick strut" type assembly... and the strut does feature the "elongated" strut mounting hole for eccentric bolt head adjustable camber.

Best I can tell from chrysler dealer online parts lookups, there appear to be two different left/right specific struts listed for 4th gen vans prior to 2005, but only one strut listed for 4th gen 2005 to 2007, without a side specification. Based on that, it would seem there was a design change somewhere around the 2005 time-frame... wondering if it wasn't part of the mid-model year tracking design changes that happened in mid-2005. Would love further clarification on this; however, after two different KYB struts gave me trouble on the left-front I decided to give these OEMs a try... putting them on both sides. They arrived "clocked" for the driver's side (left side), so I had to rotate the upper mount on one of them 180 degrees to place it on the passenger (right) side. Right or wrong, everything seems OK so far. The ride is definitely softer than the KYBs, but at least it has been 100% quiet.

Interestingly, KYB does not list their quick-struts as applicable for the 2006 to 2007 model years, but they do for the 2005 and earlier 4th gen. All I can say is that the left KYB struts installed on my mid-model-year-tracking 2005 were seemingly never happy. First one I installed "popped out" the lower spring pad and made noise all the time regardless of tightening the strut rod nut. Second one did not pop the pad and, once the strut rod nut was tightened, seemed OK except for large jounce events where the return induced what appeared to be "jarring" strut resistance... as if the spring was simply not providing any resistance following large jounce extension and the strut was initially locking up hard on start of return. Personally, I don't think these KYBs should be recommended for the mid-model-year 2005 and on 4th gen vans, but I don't know about the early 2005s. Cut in as part of the 2005 the mid-model-year changes might explain the apparent applicability confusion between what dealer sites indicate and what KYB's application recommendation reflects.

Would love to hear from somebody at Chrysler who could authoritatively clear up the mystery... but not holding my breath for that to happen!
 
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