The Telltale Clunk

14125 Views 212 Replies 26 Participants Last post by VinceBoomBots, 3 mo ago

BeardyHat

Discussion Starter · Oct 30, 2021

Well, I'm at a loss here. I've had this clunk coming from the front passenger side of my 2004 since I bought it. It only occurs at low speed going over bumps and pits, but it's very loud and pronounced when it happens. At this point, I've gone through all the suspension components I can think of and it's still there. I'm thinking maybe it's a motor mount--never heard a bad motor mount make noise like this--or even a wheel bearing--again, never heard of such a thing, but I'm at a loss.

I've replaced:

1. Struts completely

2. Control arms, including all bushings and ball joint

3. Inner and outer tie rods

4. Sway bar bushings and end links

I thought maybe it was the splash guard for the belts, as it doesn't hold together great and kind of flops around, so I both put new pins in it and removed it completely and the clunk persists.

Is there something I'm missing? Could it be a bad CV? The axles seem to be in fine shape, boots are older, but they're not ripped and leaking grease, but they could just be original to the vehicle? I was happy to replace all the parts I did, as they all needed it anyway, but I don't want to throw more parts at the problem and not resolve it at this point.

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BeardyHat

Discussion Starter · #181 · 11 mo ago

ScuzziOne said:
Rear motor mount is bad about degrading to the point of the center bolt/sleeve making direct contact with the aluminum mount body. On my 2005 3.8L, my rear mount was metal on metal by about 225,000 miles... at which time I replaced all four mounts.

I probably ought to do this, as I wouldn't be surprised if they were completely bare at this point.

I was changing my end links again today (as I butchered the last ones) and was playing around with the sway bar and noticing, I can't really get it to move at all, even levering on it. I'm not exactly sure how tight it ought to be, but I'm kind of wondering if maybe the bushings that hold it to the vehicle are too tight? Perhaps the bar itself isn't able to actually move freely up and down as needed.

I was thinking maybe I should try putting some washers on the bolts so that it isn't held so tightly and maybe that might make a difference.

Other thing I just recently noticed is that when I'm getting the loudest clunks, it seems like it may be the windshield wiper bouncing up and down over large bumps. I haven't driven with it lifted yet just to see how it affects things.

At any rate, I couldn't let this problem go just yet.

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ScuzziOne

· #182 · 11 mo ago (Edited)

Absolutely could not keep my KYB strut assemblies quiet on my 2005... particularly on large jounce/bounce, as you've noted. Noise on mine always seemed like it was higher up in the strut tower area though.

Recently moved on to OEM assemblies (2AMST010AA), seemingly available for the 2005 to 2007 model years only, and things have been blissfully silent since... albeit a softer ride compared to the KYBs. Not sure why it's a single part number, apparently for both sides, as the service manual carries on about counter-wound springs for opposite sides, IIRC, but who knows. IIRC, the KYBs are also not counter-wound. Interestingly, KYB does not recommed their quick struts for the 2006-2007 model years... combined with the mystery 2005-2007 OEM replacement assembly, this makes me think something changed in 2005 or mid-model-year 2005.

Never had any noise from my wiper tray, but it couldn't hurt to check the bolts and nuts securing the tray to the chassis.

My swaybar bushings have the nylon insert... which I figure allows the bar to rotate without stick/slip noises.

Only other thing I can think of is to make sure all your torques are to spec and your strut-to-knuckle bolts/nuts are in good condition (not galled/seized like mine were).

I would also recommend installing the newer eccentric camber adjusting bolt sets at the knuckle if you've not already done so and your current ones are standard bolts. Maybe the earlier vans came with these from the factory, but my 2005 certainly did not. Most (if not all) replacement struts available for our application are slotted for eccentric head camber adjustment bolts, whereas the originals were apparently not and the manufacturer used standard bolts instead... making the original install a fixed camber setup. Again, this was on a mid-model-year tracking 2005... other model years may vary.

If your original/existing knuckle bolts/nuts are galled/seized like mine were, this is probably a good excuse to put on a new set anyway... as poor condition knuckle bolts/nuts will not tighten properly with original torque specifications and may, thus, allow unintended movement at the stut to knuckle interface due to the slotted strut mounting holes.

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binder

· #183 · 11 mo ago

ScuzziOne said:
Recently moved on to OEM assemblies (2AMST010AA), seemingly available for the 2005 to 2007 model years only,

Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

The KYBs I installed have been quiet after I retorqued and used green loctite on the top center bolt. Granted it's only been 6 months. I was pretty alarmed by how loose they were (several full turns w/ no resistance) when I found them clunking.

Thanks

Reactions: 1

Jeepman

· #184 · 11 mo ago

The bushings aren't noisy unless they slip. The slip marks and scale can be seen on the nylon? inserts of old used bushings.
The inserts are just another half asked solution that Chrysler tried rather than change the bar or bushing bracket assembly.
- Mopar original rubber bushings for early 4th Generations, and prior generations, were rubber, that's it. They seemed to work ok for the 3rd Generation and there's no insert bushing available for that Generation.

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for the 4th Generation, not so good, the failure process was a dry squeak (slippage) for a few weeks followed by clunking (unstrained bushing dampening/looseness due to wear)
bushings with an abrasive cloth bonded to the inner face of the bushing were tried - didn't last long. Mopar 3024AD, I believe. The MOOG bushings for the 5th Generation have a look alike system.

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thermoplastic bushings - weren't a reliable solution either
polyurethane bushings that were hard, very little dampening by the bushing, designed to slip, and required special lubricant. Aftermarket and not popular for some reason.
Mopar bushings with nylon? inserts using the same rubber bushing as previously used. This provided tighter fit and some additional measure of wearability. What else could they have used to tighten up the system a smidgen? derelin? metal? Somewhat better, but not the answer. Nylon surfaces click against each other on slow turns and they wear if the friction, required for dampening, doesn't hold, causing clunking similar to loose sway bar links.
Mopar bushings with nylon? inserts using the same rubber bushing as previously used PLUS a white paste like material (lubricant?) between the insert and bushing. What were they thinking? This faulty solution wasn't available for long either.
Mopar and MOOG both say no lubruicant to be used with their insert or rubber or thermoplastic bushings. That's lubricant with a big X through it. This is a non slip designed dampening system, at least in theory. There are a half dozen or so sway bar system designs, some allowed to slip (hence lubricated somehow), some not (fixed somehow). For the 4th Generation vans, and many other Chrysler sway bar applications, like my Jeep, that system design is "fixed" using compression bonding. They missed the mark for the 4th Generation.

I think the articulation of the sway bar links plays into the problem as well. The struts move the links, on my Jeep the links are fastened to the rigid frame, a little less complicated. Perhaps the only solution is a complete new sway bar assembly system, including links, bar, bushings, brackets that will last for a few years at least.

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ScuzziOne

· #185 · 11 mo ago (Edited)

binder said:
Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

Thanks

2AMST010AA is a complete "quick strut" type assembly... and the strut does feature the "elongated" strut mounting hole for eccentric bolt head adjustable camber.

Best I can tell from chrysler dealer online parts lookups, there appear to be two different left/right specific struts listed for 4th gen vans prior to 2005, but only one strut listed for 4th gen 2005 to 2007, without a side specification. Based on that, it would seem there was a design change somewhere around the 2005 time-frame... wondering if it wasn't part of the mid-model year tracking design changes that happened in mid-2005. Would love further clarification on this; however, after two different KYB struts gave me trouble on the left-front I decided to give these OEMs a try... putting them on both sides. They arrived "clocked" for the driver's side (left side), so I had to rotate the upper mount on one of them 180 degrees to place it on the passenger (right) side. Right or wrong, everything seems OK so far. The ride is definitely softer than the KYBs, but at least it has been 100% quiet.

Interestingly, KYB does not list their quick-struts as applicable for the 2006 to 2007 model years, but they do for the 2005 and earlier 4th gen. All I can say is that the left KYB struts installed on my mid-model-year-tracking 2005 were seemingly never happy. First one I installed "popped out" the lower spring pad and made noise all the time regardless of tightening the strut rod nut. Second one did not pop the pad and, once the strut rod nut was tightened, seemed OK except for large jounce events where the return induced what appeared to be "jarring" strut resistance... as if the spring was simply not providing any resistance following large jounce extension and the strut was initially locking up hard on start of return. Personally, I don't think these KYBs should be recommended for the mid-model-year 2005 and later 4th gen vans, but I don't know about the early 2005s. Cut in as part of the 2005 the mid-model-year changes might explain the apparent applicability confusion between what dealer sites indicate and what KYB's application recommendation reflects.

Would love to hear from somebody at Chrysler who could authoritatively clear up the mystery... but not holding my breath for that to happen!

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Road Ripper

· #186 · 11 mo ago

I think the strut changes in 2005, and making them applicable to all 2006-2007, means the struts for the short wheelbase vans are used. This might be why the 2005-2007 vans handle so terribly compared to the earlier vans. The addition of stow-N-go is what made everything change. I notice the long stow-n-go vans always sit so low in the front, the way my 2004 did when I got it. My van ended up having the wrong struts on it, aftermarket FCS meant for the short wheelbase. My front end started bottoming out on everything. I think someone saw that the struts fit on 2005-2007 and thought they should also fit the 2004, it's the same body. I'd go with 2001-2004 struts for a 2005-2007 long wheelbase van if you want decent handling.

If you want to lift it a little more, use 2004-2008 Pacifica struts. That's what I replaced my FCS struts with, along with some spacers to lift the front end. You will need different length sway bar end links though.

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BeardyHat

Discussion Starter · #187 · 8 mo ago (Edited)

Just wanted to update and also ask a question here:

Finally discovered the source. One of the struts I replaced about 2-years, 10k miles ago has failed. The strut tower is coming through the top and contacting the bottom side of the windshield wiper assembly, every time I go over a bump on that side, it contacts and makes that clunk sound.

I've contacted the manufacturer and they'll give me a refund if I destroy the old strut after I get it off, but here's my next question: Can I replace just the one? If the struts had 40-50k miles on them, I'd just go ahead and do both, but with about 10k, I'm wondering if I should bother replacing both and instead just do the one side that needs it? The other strut seems to be just fine and I'd rather save myself the $200 on a new strut and just do the one side.

Thanks

Edit: I'm just going to go with my gut and replace both struts.

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Jeepman

· #188 · 8 mo ago

10,000 miles is nothing on a good strut. The OE struts on my 2002 DGC were still working at 16 years / 230,000 miles when I sold it. Then again, so was the water pump, radiator, ac, engine, transmission and a lot of other OE parts

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VinceBoomBots

· #189 · 4 mo ago

BeardyHat said:
I'll have to double-check the end links, as Jeepman previously mentioned they can back off, but this was the first drive since install. Tops were torqued correctly, bottoms were as tight as I could get them by hand, as my torque wrench wouldn't fit. End links are Detroit Axle and they also have the nut to tighten properly.

Struts are completely new assemblies from KYB, top to bottom.

I'm fairly sure the clunk is from the front, as it's particularly pronounced when sitting on the passenger side front. The rear has it's own noises, as the track bar and leaf spring bushings are worn.

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I have an '06 T&C 3.3 w 164K on her. Having the Same Exact Problem AND I Replaced Everything Just like you did Rite down to KYB Quick Struts...new Moog Camber Bolts, And I did Replace Both C.V. Axels and All 4 Motor Mounts, Still get the Clunk/Crunch when going over bumps (live in Maine...crappy roads) I was thinking maybe a Bad Body Mount where ever that is. I finally gave up.. Were you able to figure out this Mystery Gremlin??? Any info would be Very Much Appreciated...Can't believe we have the same exact problem and did the same exact repairs...Passenger Front Side

VinceBoomBots

· #190 · 4 mo ago

BeardyHat said:
Well, I'm at a loss here. I've had this clunk coming from the front passenger side of my 2004 since I bought it. It only occurs at low speed going over bumps and pits, but it's very loud and pronounced when it happens. At this point, I've gone through all the suspension components I can think of and it's still there. I'm thinking maybe it's a motor mount--never heard a bad motor mount make noise like this--or even a wheel bearing--again, never heard of such a thing, but I'm at a loss.

I've replaced:

1. Struts completely

2. Control arms, including all bushings and ball joint

3. Inner and outer tie rods

4. Sway bar bushings and end links

I thought maybe it was the splash guard for the belts, as it doesn't hold together great and kind of flops around, so I both put new pins in it and removed it completely and the clunk persists.

Is there something I'm missing? Could it be a bad CV? The axles seem to be in fine shape, boots are older, but they're not ripped and leaking grease, but they could just be original to the vehicle? I was happy to replace all the parts I did, as they all needed it anyway, but I don't want to throw more parts at the problem and not resolve it at this point.

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I have Exact same problem on an '06 T&C base model 113" W.B. I Replaced Everything just like you did (and then some, all 4 Motor Mounts) Still the "Clunk" But No Performance issues on good roads, cornering hard etc. Even Put a piece of thin tape over the Stut Mount to see if the top of the Strut Pops Thru...(mayve loose not torqued)...Nothing Did you Ever Find The Problem?...I'm thinking a Loose Body Panel on Passenger side but I have been Pulling, Shaking and Still Cannot find Anything out of place??? I'm at a Loss???

VinceBoomBots

· #191 · 4 mo ago

ScuzziOne said:
I'm a bit "down" on the KYB struts for our application. I've always been happy with KYB in the past and I like the stiffness and ride height, but I just can't keep them quiet and functioning properly. I've got a 2005 with KYB struts and a similar sounding clunk on the driver's side. Replaced the driver side strut once due to the lower spring pad "popping out" and, so far, the pad has stayed in place on the replacement; however, I still have a similar clunk that I'm pretty sure is the strut.

I really think the spring on the SR4039 might just be too short and not provide significant resistance at full extension? If I go over a bump that causes the front end to rise to what is at or close to full extension on the struts, then I seem to get a hard "impact" jolt on the driver side as the front end comes back down. Again, thinking the spring is simply not resisting and strut is "locking" momentarily due to rapid compression as the front end comes back down... causing an excessive jolt. Figure this may also explain how the lower pad escaped on the first one... particularly if the center nut was loose at the time to make the problem worse.

One thing to check is the strut rod center nut being tight as my experience with the KYBs is that the strut rod nut tends to back off, ending up loose and causing some noise on bumps. Ended up snugging them with an impact wrench and that seems to have helped, but my front left noise/jolt on larger jounces is something else.

Just out of curiosity, do you remember what part number was placed on what side of the van? I've got SR4038 on the front right (passenger) side and SR4039 on the front left (driver) side, so it's the SR4039 I'm having issues with. With center rod nut tightened, SR4038 seems to be happy on the passenger side. Thought maybe I had them installed on the wrong sides initially, but I followed up with KYB tech support on this and, following that conversation, it does appear I have them where KYB intended them to be.

Having the same issue w my 06 TnC only on the pass side...same KYB Quick Struts..Did everything you did n then some...Did you ever find the Problem???

VinceBoomBots

· #192 · 4 mo ago

BeardyHat said:
So is this worth even attempting to continue to track down? It looks like even if I'm able to resolve the problem, it'll come back in short order.

I mean, it's driving me nuts, so I guess that makes it worth it to investigate further, but at the same time I'm getting exasperated with the issue and it just started to get cold this week

Although, I forgot that with the cold, the sound gets worse, so that may be another clue and drive me even more crazy.

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Same Problem...At my Wits End...Just Hope Nothing Flies Apart @80 mph.

VinceBoomBots

· #193 · 4 mo ago

Metalguy22 said:
Agreed. I have exactly the same problem coming from exactly the same area and have done exactly the same things you have except the struts; new sway bar bushings and links, new lower control arms and new tie rods all around. Had the clunk when I bought it a month ago and after all this it still does. As someone mentioned it does not seem like the kind of sound WD40 is going to have any effect on. We are talking major clunk here not just a squeak.

In any case my bushings and links are all new. I'm done spending time and money trying to chase this down. I've given up and going to take it in to a mechanic Monday. If you haven't got it fixed this week I'll let you know what they find.

Same Problemo...Did you ever figure it out???

ScuzziOne

· #194 · 4 mo ago

Some noises on the KYB quick struts can generally be reduced by making sure the strut rod nut down in the hole of the upper mount is tight... I hit mine with a torque gun using torque limiting extension bars to eliminate all but the extreme jounce clunk I posted about. Unfortunately, you have to remove the wiper try to do this... or, at least I did.

Eventually dumped the KYBs and got a set of OEM... which did eliminate all clunking but I now have low speed turn upper strut bearing noises on both sides, which is still an improvement in my book but frustrating.

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VinceBoomBots

· #195 · 4 mo ago

ScuzziOne said:
Some noises on the KYB quick struts can generally be reduced by making sure the strut rod nut down in the hole of the upper mount is tight... I hit mine with a torque gun using torque limiting extension bars to eliminate all but the extreme jounce clunk I posted about. Unfortunately, you have to remove the wiper try to do this... or, at least I did.

Eventually dumped the KYBs and got a set of OEM... which did eliminate all clunking but I now have low speed turn upper strut bearing noises on both sides, which is still an improvement in my book but frustrating.

Thx...Im not gonna let this thing beat me...How are Moog or Monroe Quick Struts???

Valhallalla

· #196 · 4 mo ago

I can't say anything about Moog but I would avoid the Monroe quick struts. I installed some on my 2007 GCV a few years ago when the right mount plate rusted through. I lost just over an inch of ride height and the spring rate is weak. Since then I scrape the chin spoiler on almost any parking curb and bottom out frequently when it's more than just myself in the van. And now, roughly 40k miles later they are starting to make some noise. The noise is not horrible yet but I don't expect it to go away.

My experience seems to be common with the Monroe quick struts. I have been considering getting some KYBs as they seem to be better at least as far as ride height and spring rate. Or maybe even going with some form of Pacifica struts to boost the ride height some over stock.

Still not even the slightest noise from my presumably OE sway bar bushings at ~215k miles.

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VinceBoomBots

· #197 · 4 mo ago

Valhallalla said:
I can't say anything about Moog but I would avoid the Monroe quick struts. I installed some on my 2007 GCV a few years ago when the right mount plate rusted through. I lost just over an inch of ride height and the spring rate is weak. Since then I scrape the chin spoiler on almost any parking curb and bottom out frequently when it's more than just myself in the van. And now, roughly 40k miles later they are starting to make some noise. The noise is not horrible yet but I don't expect it to go away.

My experience seems to be common with the Monroe quick struts. I have been considering getting some KYBs as they seem to be better at least as far as ride height and spring rate. Or maybe even going with some form of Pacifica struts to boost the ride height some over stock.

Still not even the slightest noise from my presumably OE sway bar bushings at ~215k miles.

Thx...I did replace the Bushings correctly as you said (and everything else on the front suspension) Gonna try removing Wiper tray and Re-Torquing the center Nut on the top of the KYB Quick Struts I installed last Feb' 2022 based on what others have said on this thread. If that doesn't do it I will put a set of Moog Struts on. It's not so much the Noise/Clunk that gets me...It is the Un-Nerving feeling that something is gonna Fly Off @ 80 mph...Once I figure out this Gremlin...Then I'm going to Install New Rear Leafs w the Dayton Add-a-Leafs and All New Rear Hardware, Shackels, Mount Plates, Bolts, etc. etc. (just hope the inside of the box frame isn't to rusted, gonna be Extremely Careful when I take out the Mounting Bolts, a 'White Knuckel' moment for sure🤔)

VinceBoomBots

· #198 · 4 mo ago

Thx to Mopar-Mofun for the Advice on the 'Dayton Add-a-Leafs' 'Solid'😎

VinceBoomBots

· #199 · 4 mo ago

ScuzziOne said:
Some noises on the KYB quick struts can generally be reduced by making sure the strut rod nut down in the hole of the upper mount is tight... I hit mine with a torque gun using torque limiting extension bars to eliminate all but the extreme jounce clunk I posted about. Unfortunately, you have to remove the wiper try to do this... or, at least I did.

Eventually dumped the KYBs and got a set of OEM... which did eliminate all clunking but I now have low speed turn upper strut bearing noises on both sides, which is still an improvement in my book but frustrating.

Will most Def. pull the Wiper Tray.. have to get back there to do the plugs anyway...thx.

VinceBoomBots

· #200 · 4 mo ago

binder said:
Just to clarify, are those are full strut assemblies (aka quickstruts)?

I looked at those before ordering my KYBs, and asked vendors, but could not get details on left-right, bare strut vs assembly, etc.

The KYBs I installed have been quiet after I retorqued and used green loctite on the top center bolt. Granted it's only been 6 months. I was pretty alarmed by how loose they were (several full turns w/ no resistance) when I found them clunking.

Thanks

When Re-Torqueing the Top Center Nut on the KYB Quick Stuts...How do you keep the Piston Shaft from Turning?

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