[marvinstockman]

Jeepman, I just got from the Yukon, where I met Sargent Preston and his dog King, and I'll need a little time to catch my breath.

That being said, a couple of things:

1. The sway bar twists in response to a wheel hitting a bump. The twist is transmitted to the other wheel. Whether the bushing captures the bar and adds to the twist stiffness of the sway bar, I don't think that really, really makes a difference. If you compare the twist stiffness of the sway bar to the rubber bushing, the rubber bushing is a non-player.

2. The bushings are there to prevent up/down and fwd/back motion, or a combination of both.

3. If Chrysler actually wanted to trap the sway bar in the bushing, they would have splined the bushing and the bar.

4. For a normal rubber bushing and a metal sway bar, what you hear is 'stick/slip'. The bushing holds the bar until it can't anymore, and you hear the noise made when the bar twists free of the bushing.

5. Regarding hard urethane bushings, the manufacturers make no pretense about being able to prevent the bar from twisting in the bushing, especially with the OEM bushing clamp. As it would impossible to generate enough clamping force on the bushing. As such, grease the bushing, and the whole thing becomes a non-issue. The hard bushing better prevents the up/down and fwd/back movement of the bar.

After all that, I'm going back to the Yukon, especially now that Canada has opened its borders!

 

[ScuzziOne]

Dry Poly bushings are very squeaky without lubrication... and lubrication applied on install only last so long before you have to re-apply to combat recurrent squeaking. I guess that's why they want you to use that pine-sap like grease in hopes that it will stick around longer than other lubrication types.

I know folks that have gone to the trouble of modifying normal poly bushing setups to provide "grease runs" in the bushings and grease bungs in the bushing brackets to allow lubrication to be routinely pushed into the bushing interfaces with a grease gun.

Now, there are some newer poly compounds that are considered self-lubricating and that's what you want if you're going with poly bushings.

 

[BeardyHat]

I think I did put the MOOG poly bushings in there, but at this point, I'm gonna have to wait to disassemble, lube and see what happens.

Though, driving today, it really sounds like it's coming from the wheel area itself, rather than up near the firewall. Maybe it's just transmitting there, but it certainly sounds like it's from the wheel or strut. I'm wondering if I can retorque the top of the strut while it's still on the vehicle.

At any rate, when I have some time again, I'll see if I can retorque the end links as well and I was thinking that maybe I can jack the vehicle up and then use a big lever to force the suspension to compress on that side and maybe cause the nose from the outside.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk

 

[Jeepman]

Jeepman, I just got from the Yukon, where I met Sargent Preston and his dog King, and I'll need a little time to catch my breath.
3. If Chrysler actually wanted to trap the sway bar in the bushing, they would have splined the bushing and the bar.

You didn't read the Post about sway bar assembly designs, referenced previously. Compression bonding does not involve splines, it's totally compression and provides a dampening affect as well as a restraint effect.

1. STABILIZER BAR WITH CONVENTIONAL BUSHING Note: Bar is loose within the bushing, decreasing the effectiveness of the bar.

Also, the roll stiffness of the stabilizer bar with the conventional bushing is 17.7 N/ mm.

2. STABILIZER BAR WITH GRIPPY FLAT BUSHING Note: Flat surfaces on bar and bushing to create grip. Causes stress concentrations.
3. STABILIZER BAR WITH UPSET RING
4. STABILIZER BAR WITH CHEMICALLY BONDED BUSHING
5. STABILIZER BAR WITH COMPRESSIVELY BONDED BUSHING Note: That appears to be what we have.

How's King doing? Must be getting a little long in the tooth?

 

[marvinstockman]

I spoke to Sargent Preston, and he agrees that with the factory clamps, there's no way to fully compressively bond the bushings. The fact that most of us have had stick/slip noise proves my point.

 

[marvinstockman]

Beardy, I was once on a trip to Philly to see my son, and when I got off the highway, my front end sounded like it was going to tear itself apart. WD40 on the bushings got me home with a happy and contented wife!

I strongly suggest you try it, before driving yourself crazy and tearing things apart

 

[marvinstockman]

And don't listen to anyone from Canada or Texas!

 

[beat_truck]

As Scuzzi mentioned, lubing poly bushings is supposed to keep them from squeaking. That's why some performance ones actually come with grease fittings in the joints / brackets.

Spraying some panther pee like WD40 on bushings that have play / aren't being compressed enough and are clunking isn't going to solve or even help the problem. It's just another one of marvin's "fixes" like wrapping tape on a bad hose.

 

[Jeepman]

Who said this?

If a set of bushings does not come with a lubricant, or instructions to use a lubricant, then they should be installed dry.

Somebody, with common logic, who knows something about bushings apparently

Sway Bar Bushings

Sway bar bushings are small but important suspension components that can be easily replaced. Yet a surprising number of vehicles have either missing or worn-out sway bar components.

www.counterman.com

The Parts Guys at Mopar say to install them dry.

Case = closed as to lubricating them or not during installation.

The problem is that they lose their compression bond over time, or even almost immediately after some installations

The older bushings, without inserts, would develop a squeak as they started losing their grip (dried out or whatever, losing the compression bond). That was the first sign. Then enough wear would happen from the movement, giving looseness and an associated clunk sound.

The insert bushings are different. They can develop a clicking sound as well from the nylon insert rubbing against itself at the slit apparently. Squeaking, not so much, clicking and clunking more so.

The solution, other than new bar and/or brackets, is to tighten up the bushing assembly somehow to get the compression bond back*. That's when the system performs best at providing support for the sway bar plus a dampening effect to the suspension.(active vs inactive rubber bushing)

Countering the weak bond, and associated noise, between the sway bar and bushing, using a lubricant, will not have the same dampening effect, but with regular maintenance of the lubricant, should give a quieter ride.

*Carbuff2 may have the answer. See Post #20.

 

[marvinstockman]

Once again 'beat', I just don't know what to say, I just don't know what to say!

1. The WD40 was to be used as a troubleshooting tool, as, if the noise went away, you've found your noise source. People have spent thousands tracing these noises, when it was just the bushings.

2. The tape wrap was electrical tape around the large vacuum hose on the charcoal canister under the van, which was cracked at the canister. I was going to order the preformed vacuum hose, but the tape worked fine until I sold the van 5 years later.

In conclusion, listen to 'beat', listen to 'beat', but don't, just don't listen to me. As I'll be in the Yukon searching for Sargent Preston and his dog King.

 

[marvinstockman]

Jeepman, I think most of the damping comes from the struts, as the sway bar twist is turned into up/down motion of the wheel/tire. The vast, vast majority of damping does not come from the wee, wee little bushing, but the fat and plump strut assemblies.

This issue has been discussed to death, and obviously the Chrysler design is a poor one, otherwise creaking and groaning would not be an issue!

 

[Jeepman]

Jeepman, I think most of the damping comes from the struts, as the sway bar twist is turned into up/down motion of the wheel/tire. The vast, vast majority of damping does not come from the wee, wee little bushing, but the fat and plump strut assemblies.

This issue has been discussed to death, and obviously the Chrysler design is a poor one, otherwise creaking and groaning would not be an issue!

You aren't reading the material I keep referencing.

Different stabilizer bar systems with bushings were evaluated using CAE tools. It was observed that the systems with grippy flats and/or the upset rings can increase the maximum stress under a given load and hence can reduce the fatigue life of the system. The systems that use chemically bonded bushings and the compressive bonded bushing do not create much additional stress concentration, but the roll stiffness rates using such bushing systems can change.

From my reading, it seems to say that bushings on a regular sway bar that don't rotate are better. It creates a negligible increase in stress on the bar, but almost doubles roll stiffness.

The design is solid and works well on some vehicles, like my Jeep, but Chrysler goofed with the design and their various "problem solver": revisions to the bushings, for the Vans..

 

[beat_truck]

Once again 'beat', I just don't know what to say, I just don't know what to say!

1. The WD40 was to be used as a troubleshooting tool, as, if the noise went away, you've found your noise source. People have spent thousands tracing these noises, when it was just the bushings.

2. The tape wrap was electrical tape around the large vacuum hose on the charcoal canister under the van, which was cracked at the canister. I was going to order the preformed vacuum hose, but the tape worked fine until I sold the van 5 years later.

In conclusion, listen to 'beat', listen to 'beat', but don't, just don't listen to me. As I'll be in the Yukon searching for Sargent Preston and his dog King.

Then say nothing.

Only someone who is incompetent or wants to rip someone off would fire the random parts cannon and "spend thousands tracing these noises". A real mechanic would find the actual problem and fix it.

And 'marv', if you want someone to know you are speaking to them, you should try clicking the "reply" button. You've been a member here long enough that you should have figured that out by now. Sometimes I wonder if you are ignorant, arrogant, or some combination of the two.

 

[Westphal]

I know folks that have gone to the trouble of modifying normal poly bushing setups to provide "grease runs" in the bushings and grease bungs in the bushing brackets to allow lubrication to be routinely pushed into the bushing interfaces with a grease gun.

I installed poly sway bar bushings on my '87 Camaro, then had to take them off to add more lubricant every year or so. Once they (probably Energy Suspension) came out with bushings/shells with the grease ports and slots, I replaced them and hit them up once a year with the grease gun along with the rest of the grease fittings (9 for the steering components, plus the aftermarket suspension pieces in the rear).

 

[LEVY]

Then say nothing.

And 'marv', if you want someone to know you are speaking to them, you should try clicking the "reply" button. You've been a member here long enough that you should have figured that out by now. Sometimes I wonder if you are ignorant, arrogant, or some combination of the two.

As far as I know, every time Marvin replies, he address it specifically to someone in particular.

When no names are attached, we know exactly who is he referring to.

 

[beat_truck]

As far as I know, every time Marvin replies, he address it specifically to someone in particular.

When no names are attached, we know exactly who is he referring to.

True, but when you don't use the "Reply" feature, you won't get a notification and won't know about the response unless you happen to reread through the thread. Why not use the feature as it's intended? Is it really that difficult to point and click the mouse?

 

[LEVY]

Marvin has been here longer than most, he knows exactly what to do.

Using the reply button is not mandatory or really need it.

 

[beat_truck]

Marvin has been here longer than most, he knows exactly what to do.

Using the reply button is not mandatory or really need it.

The length of time or number of times someone has added their two cents does not impress me in the least. Hint... Hint.

 

[LEVY]

The length of time or number of times someone has added their two cents does not impress me in the least. Hint... Hint.

Someone who is here just to insult others doesn't impress anyone here either. Hint... Hint.

Sometimes I wonder if you are ignorant, arrogant, or some combination of the two.

 

[beat_truck]

Someone who is here just to insult others doesn't impress anyone here either. Hint... Hint.

You ought to know.... you do more than your fair share of that yourself.

You started insulting me and calling me a liar as soon as I joined this site!