I swear our 07 had one
The Telltale Clunk
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Metal, first try spraying them, but make sure whatever you use is very runny. Remember, your new ones will also stick/slip.
Also, I was thinking, which is problematic in itself, maybe wrapping the bushing in several layers of good quality 3M electrical tape will add enough clamping force to keep the bushing from stick/slipping.
Of note, I applied to the Mounties, but they said I was too, too old, and I wasn't Canadian
Also, I was thinking, which is problematic in itself, maybe wrapping the bushing in several layers of good quality 3M electrical tape will add enough clamping force to keep the bushing from stick/slipping.
Of note, I applied to the Mounties, but they said I was too, too old, and I wasn't Canadian
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Oh God, here we go with the electrical tape bodge jobs again.
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OK. I'll give the WD40 a try. I'm not convinced it will hurt the rubber. I'm probably going to replace them as a last resort anyway. I notice when looking at Moog and the cheap ones I put in they are both an 1/8" smaller than the other good quality one O'Reilly carries. It's also wider. Might do the trick.
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I sprayed them down with WD40 and they still clunked but I assume the stuff needs to work its way in. I went about a mile and it actually did seem like it quieted down some. Maybe my hopeful imagination. I'll take it in to town tomorrow for a longer run to get the new bushings. If it gets better at least I know that's where the problem lies. As Stockman's been saying all you are doing it for is a trouble shooting guide.
I'll still replace them then with better ones. I can't quite bring myself to give up and take it to a mechanic yet. I have a list of 22 minor and major items I have fixed on my own on this car. This is the last one. We'll see. I'll definitely let you know.
LOL. Agreed but I've done worse.Oh God, here we go with the electrical tape bodge jobs again.
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beat, God has nothing to do with it. Didn't you ever fix a wooden baseball bat, or cricket bat for the Canadians, with electrical tape?
Regarding the bushings and the clamps, the idea is to increase the clamping force, which is what you want to do, and is something Chrysler didn't do. beat, you can buy 3M thick rubber tape and wrap the rubber bushing. Happy now?
Metal, make sure you spay between the bushing and the sway bar and the bushing and the clamp. Also, I never said the bushing is your problem, but it is a good way to eliminate the bushings as the noise source.
Regarding the bushings and the clamps, the idea is to increase the clamping force, which is what you want to do, and is something Chrysler didn't do. beat, you can buy 3M thick rubber tape and wrap the rubber bushing. Happy now?
Metal, make sure you spay between the bushing and the sway bar and the bushing and the clamp. Also, I never said the bushing is your problem, but it is a good way to eliminate the bushings as the noise source.
And ... one more thing. The instructions I had said you must put the split facing forward towards the bolt head, which I did. I just looked at another thread a picture showing that Doorman says to put the split facing the rear of the car. ???
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Nope. God isn't that retarded. The only thing I have used electrical tape for is it's intended purpose. And, half a$$ing suspension parts are definitely NOT one of those purposes.
No matter how many times you suggest tape and WD40, you are still WRONG. I honestly feel sorry for people that listen to your advice and think you know what you are talking about.
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You can tell by the shape of the bushing how it should fit in the bracket. The smooth part of the bushing goes against the chassis.
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beat, I was going to say something nasty, but I decided to let God do it!
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Jeepman, you're right, and I promise to be good.
OK ... so I lubed the bushings with WD40 last night and after a couple miles this morning ... voila, no clunk. None. Zero. Zip. Drove 30 miles to town and back and still good to go. Half of this is over dirt roads so if it was going to do it it would have.
This will likely be TL;DR for many but here is what I think is going on and how I intend to solve it; Since the WD worked that tells me that it is the bushing that's the problem. From another thread Sway bar bushings again or something else. and here it seems what Chrysler had in mind here was for the bushing to bind itself to the bar and rotate with it.
Except what is happening is it is breaking its friction bond (stiction) at some point and when it does it makes the clunk noise. Chrysler apparently figured the stiction would be enough to keep it in place but it didn't work out that way as things settled in and wore. So when you put WD40 in there it mostly eliminates the stiction and simply lets the bushing act as a bearing to the rotation movement of the sway bar. But I can't imagine a rubber bushing acting as a bearing as it would quickly wear out. The WD40 or any lube to fix this is a short term repair.
So what to do? You can as suggested here wrap the bushing in tape or some material to make the fit tighter. Some suggest to "rough up" the bar so it holds better. But those will not overcome the point that the design is junk. Chrysler thinking they could depend on a rubber bushing in the environment that these operate in to dependably maintain the proper stiction just wasn't meant to be. These solutions make the best of a bad deal but I don't think they are what I want in the way of a fix. Note that this problem is everywhere. The comments in Amazon show people have replaced these things 5-6 times.
The solution to me would be to make a bushing that gives up on the stiction solution and hold the bar but allow the rotation of it in the bushing and not quickly wear it out. It seems it may be Moog to the rescue. They make a bushing with a nylon inset that acts as a bearing (Moog K200601). Since I know now with the WD40 experiment that letting the bar move freely in the bushing eliminates the clunk I'm going to install these that are meant to do just that. I also think they could be lubed on installation with some sort of sticky silicon that won't degrade the rubber. Like this stuff: Super Lube 92003 Silicone Lubricating Grease.
I'll post here how this goes. The parts get here Friday.
This will likely be TL;DR for many but here is what I think is going on and how I intend to solve it; Since the WD worked that tells me that it is the bushing that's the problem. From another thread Sway bar bushings again or something else. and here it seems what Chrysler had in mind here was for the bushing to bind itself to the bar and rotate with it.
Except what is happening is it is breaking its friction bond (stiction) at some point and when it does it makes the clunk noise. Chrysler apparently figured the stiction would be enough to keep it in place but it didn't work out that way as things settled in and wore. So when you put WD40 in there it mostly eliminates the stiction and simply lets the bushing act as a bearing to the rotation movement of the sway bar. But I can't imagine a rubber bushing acting as a bearing as it would quickly wear out. The WD40 or any lube to fix this is a short term repair.
So what to do? You can as suggested here wrap the bushing in tape or some material to make the fit tighter. Some suggest to "rough up" the bar so it holds better. But those will not overcome the point that the design is junk. Chrysler thinking they could depend on a rubber bushing in the environment that these operate in to dependably maintain the proper stiction just wasn't meant to be. These solutions make the best of a bad deal but I don't think they are what I want in the way of a fix. Note that this problem is everywhere. The comments in Amazon show people have replaced these things 5-6 times.
The solution to me would be to make a bushing that gives up on the stiction solution and hold the bar but allow the rotation of it in the bushing and not quickly wear it out. It seems it may be Moog to the rescue. They make a bushing with a nylon inset that acts as a bearing (Moog K200601). Since I know now with the WD40 experiment that letting the bar move freely in the bushing eliminates the clunk I'm going to install these that are meant to do just that. I also think they could be lubed on installation with some sort of sticky silicon that won't degrade the rubber. Like this stuff: Super Lube 92003 Silicone Lubricating Grease.
I'll post here how this goes. The parts get here Friday.
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Good to hear, metalguy. Hopefully the new stuff solves your problem.
When spraying the WD-40, did you just spray in there or did you remove the bracket and spray inside the bushing?
I'm wondering if WD40 would be worth it for me to do the same troubleshooting in this instance or if the Fluid Film I sprayed in there this weekend is similar enough that it wouldn't make a difference?
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When spraying the WD-40, did you just spray in there or did you remove the bracket and spray inside the bushing?
I'm wondering if WD40 would be worth it for me to do the same troubleshooting in this instance or if the Fluid Film I sprayed in there this weekend is similar enough that it wouldn't make a difference?
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Yes it was nice to not hear the clunk. No, I didn't undo anything. i just hosed the whole area down. It took a couple miles for it to work its way in. You might try the WD40 as it is intended to penetrate tight spaces.
I advise you read that thread I linked. It has a ton of information that explains what's going on. In short the bushings were designed to compression bond themselves to the sway bar but for many reasons it just doesn't work for long and they start moving thus giving the clunk. I'm going to go with letting them move and see how it goes.
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Fluid Film, Rust Check, or whatever, mostly Fluid Film, WD-40 dries up and goes away too quickly, have worked on my vehicles to quiet the noise down for a bit. It needs to get inside where it can work. If the vehicle is jacked up, the slit in the bushing can open up (only partly sticks in place, most likely at the bracket) and lubricant can be applied to the interior. Fluid Film will actually creep and eventually find its way there to lubricate.
Good to hear of your success Metalguy22. The compression bond that you have identified is covered pretty much back in Post #24. I think suspension travel, especially with age, may become too much for the system or the bushing needs to be larger, or salt/corrosion takes it toll on the sway bar, or the bracket doesn't have its original clamping force, or the surface where the bracket tab contacts the chassis gets worn, or it's a marginal design, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Chrysler (or somebody), early on had a bushing with a fabric insert bonded to the rubber for creating friction, so the problem showed up fairly early in the 4th Generation, it seems. Worthy of note is that MOOG makes a sway bar bushing for the 5th Generation with fabric bonded to it. I haven't heard of any problems with the bushings on the 5th Generation though. Go figure.
![Automotive tire Rim Automotive wheel system Tire Composite material]()
MOOG says on another site:
Some of the Ford Fairlanes, Falcons, Mustangs, etc, back in the 1960s, would have control arm bushing failures (bond let go much like our sway bar bushings). You could hear them coming from a mile away (squeaking) except on rainy days. They eventually came up with greaseable ones, or grease fittings, as the fix. Keep in mind that the Van's control arm bushings don't have grease fittings, but they have rubber. What does that tell you about how they work?
Control Arm Bushing Preload, Important Information!
Similarly, sway bar bushings should be tightened when the suspension is in a neutral position. I use ramps for that.
Good to hear of your success Metalguy22. The compression bond that you have identified is covered pretty much back in Post #24. I think suspension travel, especially with age, may become too much for the system or the bushing needs to be larger, or salt/corrosion takes it toll on the sway bar, or the bracket doesn't have its original clamping force, or the surface where the bracket tab contacts the chassis gets worn, or it's a marginal design, sometimes works, sometimes doesn't. Chrysler (or somebody), early on had a bushing with a fabric insert bonded to the rubber for creating friction, so the problem showed up fairly early in the 4th Generation, it seems. Worthy of note is that MOOG makes a sway bar bushing for the 5th Generation with fabric bonded to it. I haven't heard of any problems with the bushings on the 5th Generation though. Go figure.
MOOG says on another site:
Some of the Ford Fairlanes, Falcons, Mustangs, etc, back in the 1960s, would have control arm bushing failures (bond let go much like our sway bar bushings). You could hear them coming from a mile away (squeaking) except on rainy days. They eventually came up with greaseable ones, or grease fittings, as the fix. Keep in mind that the Van's control arm bushings don't have grease fittings, but they have rubber. What does that tell you about how they work?
Control Arm Bushing Preload, Important Information!
Similarly, sway bar bushings should be tightened when the suspension is in a neutral position. I use ramps for that.
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Interesting. I definitely put mine in while the suspension was hanging. I don't have any ramps, but maybe I'll have to get some so I can tighten things properly.
Though I guess I could support the van on its control arms with the jackstands. I always feel a little uncomfortable with that though.
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