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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello folks,

Last week I joined the Chrysler van club and also discovered this treasure trove forum. So far I am enjoying reading through loads of interesting and quality discussions here. Hope you guys accept me to your clan :)

We brought this Town and Country for extending family, it has 105k miles, 2009 touring edition with 3.8L engine.

Yesterday I noticed that engine runs little hot(almost near halfway mark of temp
gauge), see pic below. This happens after engine runs for a while may be at around 5-10 mins, Idle/Driving have same effect. we are in SE Michigan, weather is still cold 30-50 Deg F, I am concerned that in summer I will sure have issues with overheating.


Trouble shooting done so far:
* Fan OK - Radiator Fan turns on when AC is ON
* Heater OK -There is good Cabin Heat all the time
* AC Ok - Chills the cabin
* Coolant Ok - No apparent Coolant Leaks, Coolant level is good
* Oil OK - Engine oil level seems ok and no oil spots on driveway

I have already these parts from RockAuto, these need to be replaced as part of 100k service:

* Thermo stat
* Upper and Lower Coolant hoses
* Radiator cap

I am wondering if it is a real issue or this is normal level for the temp gauge?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1rzzqndm6ojd68/image.jpg
 

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Hello folks,

Last week I joined the Chrysler van club and also discovered this treasure trove forum. So far I am enjoying reading through loads of interesting and quality discussions here. Hope you guys accept me to your clan :)

We brought this Town and Country for extending family, it has 105k miles, 2009 touring edition with 3.8L engine.

Yesterday I noticed that engine runs little hot(almost near halfway mark of temp
gauge), see pic below. This happens after engine runs for a while may be at around 5-10 mins, Idle/Driving have same effect. we are in SE Michigan, weather is still cold 30-50 Deg F, I am concerned that in summer I will sure have issues with overheating.


Trouble shooting done so far:
* Fan OK - Radiator Fan turns on when AC is ON
* Heater OK -There is good Cabin Heat all the time
* AC Ok - Chills the cabin
* Coolant Ok - No apparent Coolant Leaks, Coolant level is good
* Oil OK - Engine oil level seems ok and no oil spots on driveway

I have already these parts from RockAuto, these need to be replaced as part of 100k service:

* Thermo stat
* Upper and Lower Coolant hoses
* Radiator cap

I am wondering if it is a real issue or this is normal level for the temp gauge?


https://www.dropbox.com/s/l1rzzqndm6ojd68/image.jpg
Welcome to the forum!

I wouldn't worry, temp. seems normal to me, however, if the temp. gauge starts going over the mid range, then the first thing I would do, is to do a coolant flush and replace the thermostat (I would probably do it regardless, for pace of mind).

Good luck!
 

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Hello & Welcome.

Would not worry about the Temp Gauge. That is where Mine is at. Just a little under the half way mark, whether hear or AC is on. Have had it in for service, they checked it, and told me it was fine. Would be careful though, didn't realize there is a different coolant in these systems, 5 year 100,000 mile coolant. If you mix it with something like Prestone, you will create all kinds of problems in the cooling system. Good thing I read that in the Owners Manual. You can go on line, if you do not have one, and download one for free.

Hope this helps, and Enjoy the New To You Van! :thumb:
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Welcome to the forum!

I wouldn't worry, temp. seems normal to me, however, if the temp. gauge starts going over the mid range, then the first thing I would do, is to do a coolant flush and replace the thermostat (I would probably do it regardless, for pace of mind).

Good luck!

Thanks Levy

Now I removed Thermostat and ran the engine for about 20-30 minutes including some driving guess what, temp stayed at 1/4 mark on the gauge. It appears Thermostat has higher set point for regulating temperature or degraded performance to cause higher temperature.

Last night I ordered Thermostat, hoses, etc from RockAuto, will put that new one in and see how it goes. Meanwhile I plan to run without Thermostat as it is keeping temperature down.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello & Welcome.

Would not worry about the Temp Gauge. That is where Mine is at. Just a little under the half way mark, whether hear or AC is on. Have had it in for service, they checked it, and told me it was fine. Would be careful though, didn't realize there is a different coolant in these systems, 5 year 100,000 mile coolant. If you mix it with something like Prestone, you will create all kinds of problems in the cooling system. Good thing I read that in the Owners Manual. You can go on line, if you do not have one, and download one for free.

Hope this helps, and Enjoy the New To You Van! :thumb:
Hey Greys,

Thanks for the comforting info on service center clarification, did your temperature reading gradually increase over the period or it stayed same from day one for you? and since how long you are seeing this issue?

I am planning to flush the coolant with OEM Recommended one while doing new Thermostat install may be next week.
 

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That is the same place that my gauge runs on the '08 with the 3.3L. You should not run it without the thermostat as the engine control systems are designed for that engine to be in the 190 degree range. By removing it and allowing the engine to run at the lower temps makes the ECM and related control systems think it is still cold and will add extra gas and such to keep things in balance. Your fuel mileage will drop.
Trust the engineering. Higher temps mean better efficiency and longer engine life.
They are even pushing the big diesels to 200-210 degrees now as it is so much better for the engine.

Mike.
 
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I'm going to say your temp gauge looks normal too. Just under the 1/2 way mark is my normal temp too. I'd avoid driving without the t-stat, it's there to make sure your engine operates at optimal temperature. Without it your engine is going to run too cold.

Your better focusing your efforts on the following (unless you can confirm it was already done):

Replace the trans fluid by dropping the pan and replacing the filter
Coolant flush - won't be too much effort since you need to reinstall your t-stat and plan to replace your hoses. (Be sure to use HOAT as stated in the owners manual)
Plugs and wires
Lube brake slide pins - this will save you from premature brake wear, if you look around this forum, you will find a bunch of topics on poor brake design.

Enjoy your new van!
 

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Put the thermostat back. There's nothing wrong with your van. It should get up to operating temp no problem even in cooler temps outside.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
That is the same place that my gauge runs on the '08 with the 3.3L. You should not run it without the thermostat as the engine control systems are designed for that engine to be in the 190 degree range. By removing it and allowing the engine to run at the lower temps makes the ECM and related control systems think it is still cold and will add extra gas and such to keep things in balance. Your fuel mileage will drop.
They are even pushing the big diesels to 200-210 degrees now as it is so much better for the engine.
wilsonm,

I agree, it will take long time to bring the engine to operating temperature during this time it will burn rich mixture(more gas vs air)? or may try to run in higher RPM , I am not planning to remove Thermostat permanently.
Removing it did bring the temp down or what appears to be normal operating temperature as compared to other engine I have seen.
With this I am at peace knowing that nothing else has failed in the cooling system, fan, pump, etc. or I am able to isolate the issue to Thermostat.

And I have already ordered new Thermostat, as OEM suggested inspect/replace Thermostat at around 100k mark I think

MOTORAD Part # 656195 OE Standard Temperature: 195F; Includes seal; OEM Recommended Temp
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1443299&parttype=2200


Higher temps mean better efficiency and longer engine life.
They are even pushing the big diesels to 200-210 degrees now as it is so much better for the engine.
Yes on efficiency but does efficiency really translate into longer engine life?
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'm going to say your temp gauge looks normal too. Just under the 1/2 way mark is my normal temp too. I'd avoid driving without the t-stat, it's there to make sure your engine operates at optimal temperature. Without it your engine is going to run too cold.

Your better focusing your efforts on the following (unless you can confirm it was already done):

Replace the trans fluid by dropping the pan and replacing the filter
Coolant flush - won't be too much effort since you need to reinstall your t-stat and plan to replace your hoses. (Be sure to use HOAT as stated in the owners manual)
Plugs and wires
Lube brake slide pins - this will save you from premature brake wear, if you look around this forum, you will find a bunch of topics on poor brake design.

Enjoy your new van!
Yes, I will install the new Thermostat back
Will do it as part of flush, hoses, etc. may be next week. I have ordered the Trans oil filter but still thinking weather do it myself or go to local shop as it a little messy job and it appears flushing rest of the oil (other than pan)/checking oil level is another pain in @$$...

Thanks for pointing to Brakes design, I will go through the forum

>>Enjoy your new van!
**** yes, we are looking forward to heavy camping trips this summer
 

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wilsonm,

I agree, it will take long time to bring the engine to operating temperature during this time it will burn rich mixture(more gas vs air)? or may try to run in higher RPM , I am not planning to remove Thermostat permanently.
Removing it did bring the temp down or what appears to be normal operating temperature as compared to other engine I have seen.
With this I am at peace knowing that nothing else has failed in the cooling system, fan, pump, etc. or I am able to isolate the issue to Thermostat.

And I have already ordered new Thermostat, as OEM suggested inspect/replace Thermostat at around 100k mark I think

MOTORAD Part # 656195 OE Standard Temperature: 195F; Includes seal; OEM Recommended Temp
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?carcode=1443299&parttype=2200




Yes on efficiency but does efficiency really translate into longer engine life?
Absolutely!!! Rings are always seated tightly against the cylinder walls. Engine is never flooded with excess fuel. Oil stays cleaner longer, engine wear slows down.

It was not too long ago that getting 100,000 miles out of a gasoline engine was huge. Now we expect at least 200,000 and are not surprised when some make the 300,000 mark. That is a direct result of electronic engine management systems.

Electronic engine controls along with an 8 quart oil pan allow me a 10,000 mile oil change interval on my car. It would go even further but I am not comfortable doing so.

Mike.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Absolutely!!! Rings are always seated tightly against the cylinder walls. Engine is never flooded with excess fuel. Oil stays cleaner longer, engine wear slows down.

It was not too long ago that getting 100,000 miles out of a gasoline engine was huge. Now we expect at least 200,000 and are not surprised when some make the 300,000 mark. That is a direct result of electronic engine management systems.

Electronic engine controls along with an 8 quart oil pan allow me a 10,000 mile oil change interval on my car. It would go even further but I am not comfortable doing so.

Mike.
Makes sense, I am going to put thermostat back asap and not worry about Engine temperature gauge in the middle :)

Chrysler appears to be built Gauge sweep Diagnostic test as separate procedure rather than do it every key cycle,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2mtmyl5VDFY
 

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......It was not too long ago that getting 100,000 miles out of a gasoline engine was huge. Now we expect at least 200,000 and are not surprised when some make the 300,000 mark. That is a direct result of electronic engine management systems.

Mike.
Where you got that information from?

Seen many, many old vehicles with no electronic engine management systems whatsoever passing the 400,000 mile mark!

Also seen many, many newer vehicles not even reaching the 200,000 miles while many others reach over 500,000 miles.
 

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Where you got that information from?

Seen many, many old vehicles with no electronic engine management systems whatsoever passing the 400,000 mile mark!

Also seen many, many newer vehicles not even reaching the 200,000 miles while many others reach over 500,000 miles.
Levy,

That information comes from almost 50 years in the business. We had an IH dealership when I was a child and it was common for an engine to be replaced twice in 100,000 in those days.

I have been involved with, operated, worked on and sold parts for cars and trucks since that time. I am still in the business and now get to see 15L Diesel Engines go 1,000,000 without an overhaul.
I think if you check around you will find others that feel the same as I.
In rare cases carburetor controlled engines with breaker point ignition went over 100,000 miles, but not very darn often without some work being done on them.

Where do you get your information from???
 

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Levy,

That information comes from almost 50 years in the business. We had an IH dealership when I was a child and it was common for an engine to be replaced twice in 100,000 in those days.

I have been involved with, operated, worked on and sold parts for cars and trucks since that time. I am still in the business and now get to see 15L Diesel Engines go 1,000,000 without an overhaul.
I think if you check around you will find others that feel the same as I.
In rare cases carburetor controlled engines with breaker point ignition went over 100,000 miles, but not very darn often without some work being done on them.

Where do you get your information from???


From your previous post:

.......It was not too long ago that getting 100,000 miles out of a gasoline engine was huge....




Well, not 50 years buy at least 40 years in business.

Odometers used to roll at 100,000 miles so, engines would always break before 100,0000 mark! I guess you are right! :)

Replacing engine twice before the 100,000 mile mark? Well, my customers never had that problem, I guess that depends on who repaired that engine!

By the way, I do have a 1970 IH truck with the original engine still running, I also have a very old IH tractor still with the original engine and still pulling a plow and a row binder behind!

Quaker State used to have a 1000,000 mile warranty, I'm talking about some 20 or 30 years ago, I don't know if Q.S. still have that warranty available for new customers. I don't believe any oil company would have that kind of warranty knowing that most engines would die before the 100,000 mark!
 

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Is this the right AntiFreeze to buy? how much of it I need to buy?


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...4188_1441237_4859&+Country&pt=04188&ppt=C0059
Looks like the right one, if you click on the "compatibility" tab, it will show you all the vehicles it works with (that list is surprisingly long!). With the concentrate you'll need to dilute it with distilled or de-minerialized water. DO NOT use tap water. The fluoride in it is not good for your cooling system.

I think the cooling system holds around 12 liters off the top of my head, if you have rear heat add another liter or so. Doing the math, each bottle has 3.78 liters, so probably two bottles. don't forget to get plenty of distilled/deminerialized water to first flush the system and dilute the coolant.

As for your question about efficiency translating to better engine life. I'm not a mechanic, I'll leave that to someone who's an expert in that area. Both the 3.3 and 3.8 engines are very reliable. They've been around for a long time and the engine generally outlasts the van. In fact one of the users (and newly appointed moderator) "1994 Sport" has a Caravan from 1994 (not a typo) with the ORIGINAL 3.3L engine that has done something close to 350,000 MILES!
 

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Well, for example GM introduced in tank fuel pumps and throttle body fuel control in 1987 C / K series trucks. That's 27 years ago.
 

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Is this the right AntiFreeze to buy? how much of it I need to buy?


http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/d...4188_1441237_4859&+Country&pt=04188&ppt=C0059
Looks like the right one, if you click on the "compatibility" tab, it will show you all the vehicles it works with (that list is surprisingly long!). With the concentrate you'll need to dilute it with distilled or de-minerialized water. DO NOT use tap water. The fluoride in it is not good for your cooling system.

I think the cooling system holds around 12 liters off the top of my head, if you have rear heat add another liter or so. Doing the math, each bottle has 3.78 liters, so probably two bottles. don't forget to get plenty of distilled/deminerialized water to first flush the system and dilute the coolant.

As for your question about efficiency translating to better engine life. I'm not a mechanic, I'll leave that to someone who's an expert in that area. Both the 3.3 and 3.8 engines are very reliable. They've been around for a long time and the engine generally outlasts the van. In fact one of the users (and newly appointed moderator) "1994 Sport" has a Caravan from 1994 (not a typo) with the ORIGINAL 3.3L engine that has done something close to 350,000 MILES!
This is great info,

2 gal of coolant, 3-4 gal of distill water should do the job.

Tip to buy adtional Distilled water for flush is priceless

Did some shop around found this for decent price:
http://www.autoparts2020.com/rsdev/m/part_detail.jsp?PART_HDR_ID=60961


Waiting for rock auto to deliver other parts...

Thanks a ton for for your help
 

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That is the correct coolant. Discussed at length on other forums. If HOAT is called for the Zerex is one of only three that meet that. I have a chart from Penray that shows all that. I will post it for you Monday as it is on my PC at work.
 
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