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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a 99 voyager, I am planing to replace the engine, due to major failure and 187k miles, question is while I am at it should I try a 3.8 tranny, I'm told the fuel milage on these vans is not the best, and the 3.8 tranny will bolt right up, identical realy if not for the diferent final drive gear ratio, which sould help with fuel economy.
The one thing I am woried about is the electronics, I know there is a transmision control module, should that be replaced along with the tranny?
Also I was reading this post about an original transmission that came with the vehicle from factory, it had some issues seting codes related to gear ratios, I belive there are several speed sensors, I wonder if a diferent final drive may trip such codes on my van after the swap.

Is anybody around here familiar with these trannys and theyr workings, is my Ideea feaseble at all, are there any issues I should be concerned with?
 

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There is no difference between the 3.3L & the 3.8L engine transmissions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
the final drive should be diferent to quote daveincolumbus:

The 3.8L has taller gearing so there can be at least a little cake eating. Per my 2000 DGC factory service manual, page 21-89:

Gear Ratios
First --> 2.84:1
Second --> 1.57:1
Third --> 1.00:1
Overdrive --> 0.69:1

Final Drive Ratios
2.4L --> 3.91
3.3L --> 3.62
3.8L --> 3.45

I've also caught this in other posts, I see you own 2 3rd gen vans with both 3'3 and 3.8, do you have a tack on them?, can you tell an rpm diference at the same speed between the 2?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
it was part of the post I quoted, not related.

I'm looking to verify this info and get a few more tips while at it, I never had a chrysler vehicle so I am not very familiar with them, for instance on my 2000 S10 there is a label inside the glove box with various info anything from the paint color to the gear ratio on the final drive the type of diferential etc, comes in handy when you're looking for junkyard upgrades ex if you have a gt3 it means low ratio open dif where gt5is high ratio limited slip, anythig similar on chrysler vehicles?

for instance one thing I am considering, my van I belive it has a factory tow package, does that also mean low gear ratio to help with towing? or am I just beeing paranoid.

does anybody know how to read these vans, what they are made of so when I go junkyard shopping I know what I am looking for?

I doubt they are all the same.
 

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The 3.3 and the 3.8 has different final drive gear ratio.
When i replaced my tranny with a rebuilt one i was talking to guy who rebuild it that i do alot of caravan towing and he suggested that he put in the ratio from the 3.3 tranny to make life easyier for the tranny. I think he was talking about a difference of about 600rpm at 60mph.
I haven't really noticed any difference in MPG though.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
did you have the 3.3 final drive installed in yours?
 

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Yes i have.
 

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GEORGEC:
I have the 3.3L engine, and to get the equivalent (or close to) as the 3.8L ratio, I went to larger diameter tires. 195/65R15 to 225/70R15 (if your camber alignment allows the width) This gives me about a 3.35 ratio equiv., which for my 3.3L seems to make 75 - 85 MPH a "sweet spot" on the highway.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Ive done that on my S10 fit as big tires as posible without rubbing I think originaly it was 235/55/16 and went to 245/60/16 or smth like that, looks much better too my spedo may be off a bit not sure if it is hooked up to the trany or it goes off the wheel speed sensors, either way it would not recognize the biger tires, that is an Ideea, though the fan has 187miles engine allready failed, I might as well get a new tranny while I am at it just want to make sure I know what I'm getting into.

I was reading this post about rpm's at diferent speeds and it did not seam to be any diference between 3.8,s and 3.3's but the test subjects were 2001 and up, I wonder if they changed that sience.

Is there a plate or a vin decoder, that would tell you what the vehicle has?
it helps when junkysrd shopping.
 

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GEORGEC:
I have the 3.3L engine, and to get the equivalent (or close to) as the 3.8L ratio, I went to larger diameter tires. 195/65R15 to 225/70R15 (if your camber alignment allows the width) This gives me about a 3.35 ratio equiv., which for my 3.3L seems to make 75 - 85 MPH a "sweet spot" on the highway.
I once tried just "wider" tires NOT taller & the RF scrubbed when turning hard left. Just looking at it I would have not thought so. Maybe it depends on several things including the suspension and much the struts hold the van up.
 

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the transmission gears are the same between 3.3 and 3.8
the difference in the final drive come from the transfer gear and differential

according to my ATSG manual they are the following
3.3 are using the 49/47 pair also found in all the 2.4 I4 and 2.5 v6 cars
3.8 are using the 46/50 pair in AWD and FWD

the other pair is the 50/46 found in the 2.0L I4 stratus

any pair of transfer gear could be use in any a604

differential now
the AWD is either 16/60 or the 17/59 (probably a different ratio in the "sport awd" package with the 3.3 engine ??? )
the 3.3 is listed with 17/59
the 3.8 is listed with 16/60

a 15/56 is listed in the 3th and 4th gen van for the 3.8 starting in 1999

other transfer gear from past chrysler model
54/59 with 3.0l engine, 49/47 and 58/55 in early 3.3 cars and vans

swapping transfer gear is doable in a drive way in a few hours
 
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The 3.3/3.8 final drive ratio differences extend into the 4th generation run also. Our '03 had the 3.3 and the shorter final drive and our '07 has the 3.8 and the taller final drive. There's a noticeable difference in cruise RPM on the road. I'd say the 600 RPM that was suggested earlier is pretty accurate. It's a nice reduction in noise and general "din" as you drive down the road.

As for fuel economy, it's hard for me to compare since they were installed in two different vehicles with two different engines. It sounds like the difference is very small, if there.
 

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Gday georgec, l have a first registered 3/98 chrysler voyager, australia, l am the third owner, so most of the faults were fixed by the time l got to it. lts got 313,000 kms on it and has had engine trouble and has developed reverse gear trouble. lt will engage, but you can only idle back, and only on level ground. l have had it serviced, but that made no physical difference, but l know that shortly it may fail totally and l am up for a repair or replacement. Approx 1500 $ Aus for a reconditioned unit from a repair shop, or about 8000 $ from a dealer. The new model here is available with a diesel option, but at 65 K plus l am not getting one this week.... looking up the european models, they have had the diesel option for years, does that get you thinkin? Any way, looking on the British Ebay site, they always have diesel vans for sale and l am enquiring as to the availabilty of a replacement engine, trans, computer and ancillaries to be delivered to my door, l know this ramble has not helped you with your trans prob, but l will keep you posted when l hear back how much it will cost to have it delivered to my door.
KInd Regards Cgm:
 

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I once tried just "wider" tires NOT taller & the RF scrubbed when turning hard left. Just looking at it I would have not thought so. Maybe it depends on several things including the suspension and much the struts hold the van up.
You will find they scrub the frame when you make sharp turns. You just get in the habit of not "locking" the steering on turns. The alignment (camber adjustment - side angle) determines how wide you can go, the strut "tower" where the spring is, determines how tall you can go. I've found 225/70R is about the limit on mine.

What really impresses me is how it likes to get up into the 75-85MPH range and seems to enjoy it. I don't have a tach, but from the deeper tone, I can tell the RPM is lower than with the 195/65R's.

Anyone know if I can just install the cluster from another GEN 1 with tach and everything be supported ????
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
woaw, I love the response I am getting,
first of all thanks to alain, that is the kind of info I've been looking for, now I just got to do the math and figure out which way I want to go, I knew there was something diferent from 99 and up by reading a post about rpm at diferent speeds, did not seem to be much of a diference between 3.3 and 3.8, I noticed the test subjects were newer vans , that particular 15/56 might have something to do with it, now I just got to do some math and decide which way I want to go, as for the instalation I'll be pulling the engine and tranny anyhow, so it should be easy, hopefuly it will all bolt up and won't give me any codes, those computers can get upset easily from such mods, may need to get the computer with the trany, it will be a frankenstein monster that's for sure.
do you know of any way to Identify those trannyes without taking them apart, and count the teeth, serials might help if only I knew how to read them.
jason, that's what I expected but if you read this one post called 'engine rpms' something dont jive, I supose that odd dif rate has something to do with it. as for your mileage, smaller engine reving higher is comparable to biger engine reving slower, smaler engine reving slower should help economy esp in highway cond, not so sure about city, but I bought the fan for a road trip vehicle so it should work for me, but again like the thread we got into last night theory is one thing, reality another, I am anctious to see how it turns out anyway.
cgm, diesels are cool that's for sure and upgrading them the sky is the limit, as far as I am concerned this is a junkyard build I am doing, the engine is $200 tranny $150, totaly diferent price range, plus here in us diesel is more expensive than gas unless u use biofuel, and doing that kind of swap involves a lot, you're talking harneces, computers, realy the only realistic way to do it is to get a crashed donor vehicle with low miles, some t-bone or rear end, ordering parts to do it it will be more expensive than a new van build to order. personaly I wouldn't even consider it I'll probably never finish and get to enjoy it. a gearbox will be cool though but again you'd need a donor vehicle. I'll have to settle for automatic.
az, bigger tires will help, personaly I'd weld a shim to stop it going too far, did it on a chevy I never liked to jack them up, they perform better at stock height and look so much better when the wheel well is full, they get tall enough for me, it will help with economy, but one thing I do not get, unless you recalibrated your spedo, it should be off that 75- 80 you are talkling about is more like 95. otherwise everything else adds up.
as for the tack, I have no ideea about those vans, how they read the rpms, there may be an engine speed sensor that you don't have some go off the spark, I do belive there are aftermarket tacks that you clamp onto a sparkpug wire, they work by induction like a timing gun, but I am not sure, I think I came across that once or maybe it was while fixing my dads tempo, I think ford does that, look it up.

again thanks for all the help I'll keep you all posted.
 

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Thank you GeorgeC.
By the way, if you can find a diesel doner in the USA, I'm interested in one, too. But all the diesel mini-vans from Chrysler are overseas, even though they build them here.

by the way, while looking online at a wrecking yard, they also listed a 2.52 diff ratio. I was wondering if it was a typo (should have been 3.52 ?). By the way, considering your location, you may even wish AWD. Tranny, driveshaft, rear axle, and you're good to go ...... :thumb:
 

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Thank you GeorgeC.
By the way, if you can find a diesel doner in the USA, I'm interested in one, too. But all the diesel mini-vans from Chrysler are overseas, even though they build them here.

by the way, while looking online at a wrecking yard, they also listed a 2.52 diff ratio. I was wondering if it was a typo (should have been 3.52 ?). By the way, considering your location, you may even wish AWD. Tranny, driveshaft, rear axle, and you're good to go ...... :thumb:
for a while Chrysler was shipping partially built van to a factory in Austria were they were fitting them with the european drivetrain they may still do the same now

and beware when reading final drive ration
chrysler quote them on the overdrive gear and not the third gear !


http://www.geocities.com/rbsounddesigns//finaldrivemod.html

this link could be usefull it shows how you can swap the transfer gear on the A604 , it shows the swap on a Chrysler Sebring but it will be the same on a minivan since they share the same transmission

swapping the transfer gear will change the gearing ration on all speeds and it is easier than swapping a differential is the transmission is still in the vehicule

swapping the "stratus" gear into a 3.3 van will give a better acceleration but you will rev higher at the same speed as you used so less fuel economy

swapping the 3.8 gear should reduce your rpm but your engine could work harder under acceleration
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
again thanks to all for the help, one other thing, do you guys know of any a604/41te (I belive they are praclicaly the same just diferent years) that came with limited slip, maybe awd, now that would be cool, I am asuming most of these trannyes have open diferentials.
 

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again thanks to all for the help, one other thing, do you guys know of any a604/41te (I belive they are praclicaly the same just diferent years) that came with limited slip, maybe awd, now that would be cool, I am asuming most of these trannyes have open diferentials.
The diff is part of the tranny.

The AWD is an "adapter" bolted to the A604 "long half-shaft" side of the tranny, and a shorter half-shaft installed. Then a driveshaft with a "viscus link" and live rear axle. The viscus link allows "some" slippage between front and rear, for turning. Otherwise, it resists, causing power to be transferred to the rear axle, same way Subaru does it (very similar design).

There was a link in another thread about a company that makes "limited-slip" aftermarket kits for these trannys. PhantomGrip.com
 
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