[tcwagner1]

After reflection, if you have a leak in the transmission oil cooler, and your ac is working fine, the simplest thing to do is to bypass the one in the combination ac/tranny cooler and hook it up to an auxiliary cooler. Just bypass the one in the car. The simplest way, and reversible, is to cut the rubber part of the present hoses in an accessible place and put a piece of metal tubing as a juncture to the new rubber hose, . If you have to replace the ac side later, you can hook back up to the original style cooler if you save your quick connect hose end and tubing. You will have to remove the grill to do this, but as the previous poster said, it sounds more difficult than it is. That way you won't have to touch your AC at all. Saves a ton. Get the biggest aux. cooler with round tubes that you can get and you will have a cooler better than the one that came on it.

 

[dmtstudio]

Hi all - here's the outcome of this particular repair. I'm quoting the original problem below:

The transmission won't shift from reverse into drive when first started in the morning. The shift lever does not appear to have a linkage problem - it goes into reverse just fine; but when I back out of my 30-foot driveway and shift into drive, the transmission seems to slip into neutral. A reliable way to overcome this seems to be to rev the accelerator gently a few times, and the transmission will shift when the revs get high enough - at least that's the way it seems to me. It's happened only about 7 times in the past 4 weeks, but I've been concerned. I'm not sure, but there may also be a little rough shifting at speeds of about 30 to 35 or 40 mph. There has been no check engine light. There has been no obvious stain of transmission leakage on our driveway (although we do have a gravel driveway and it's hard to tell). The fluid has been a little low in the transmission, but not a huge amount low.

We were quoted a cost of $1080.00 by the dealer repair shop, which was the only place we could get the van before leaving on vacation. They said there was a transmission fluid leak in the area of the AC condenser, where the transmission lines share the same space. They said I would have to have the "front end" of the van taken out, including (I thought he said) the radiator, AC condenser, and tranny cooler.

Here's what actually came out on the bill. Someone more learned than me can explain what they actually did! I'll use the same abbreviations they used:

Installed: Cooler: Condenser and TRA68059 1@337.00
Installed: Fltr Pkg: Transmission oil 1@10.20
Installed Fluid: Automatic Transmission 8@7.42
Installed: Sealer: RTV 1@5.50
Kit: LOF 15.95
Installed: 5W30 Included
Installed: Filter: Engine oil Included
Removed and installed transmission cooler
Serviced Transmission, Quicklearned Transmission
LOF, Test drove. All OK at this time.
Evaced and Recharged AC System
Subtotal: Labor 585.00, Parts 428.01 Total: 1013.01
Including all taxes and shop supplies, grand total was 1094.00

I don't see anything on there about removing the radiator or the van's front end, nor about flushing and refilling the engine coolant. So I'm guessing they didn't need to do that?

The van had driven fine before the repair except for the glitch in shifting from reverse to forward low in the morning. That glitch is gone. Hard to tell if the slightly rough shifting at mid-speeds of 30-40 mph is gone since it only happened now and then anyway. The AC had been working fine before is still working fine.

I will keep an eye and ear open for any continued problems. I am still a bit skeptical about the repair itself, and still wondering if there would have been an easier way to handle it, if we'd had more time.

But for the moment, I will try my best to not think about it and enjoy a week's vacation!

Thanks all!

 

[blupupher]

Looks like they did what I said.
To remove the condenser/cooler, you do have to remove the radiator, so that is part of the "Installed: Cooler: Condenser and TRA68059" and "Removed and installed transmission cooler".

They drained the tranny and changed the filter. They did an oil and filter change (with the wrong oil BTW, should be 5w-20).

Sounds like they did not charge you anything extra and did what was needed. Just paid more than you should have by going to a dealer. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do though.

Have a nice vacation.

 

[David Wagle]

Great thread. I wanted to ask something similiar instead of starting a new thread, as I have 2005 Grand Caravan w/3.8. I noticed quite a bit of fluid when I changed the water pump/serpentine belt/tensioner last weekend on the passenger side, bottom/front of the engine compartment. Underneath where the radiator hose is at on that side. It was diagnosed as a Trans Cooler leak by my shop and quoted at $214.71 for the part, #1K600396/AC Condenser w/Trans Cooler, $120 labor. AC service is an additional $100. Is this a common problem? I have a buddy who is an excellent mechanic. Is this something we can tackle on our own? How serious of a problem is it?

 

[zero10]

That is a really good price for the fix in my opinion. Since it involves service to the A/C system I would not tackle that repair yourself unless you are a trained refrigeration mechanic and have the correct tools. I noticed that ATF is not included in that quote - ATF+4 is expensive fluid and it is imperative that the correct fluid is used. Make sure they are using ATF+4 and expect to pay ~$8-12/L for up to 8-9L of it as part of the repair. Might as well drop the transmission pan and replace the filter at the same time.

 

[Arvid78]

In my instruction manual it says w5-30 oil

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[Samc]

In my instruction manual it says w5-30 oil

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Ongoing, and pointless, debate. In the US they spec 5w20 to meet fleet mileage/emissions standards; the marginally thinner oil gets a tiny, tiny bit better mileage, possibly at the expense of less margin of safety and possibly a little more oil getting past the valve guides. Everywhere else, the same engine uses 5w30 just fine.

 

[Arvid78]

Ongoing, and pointless, debate. In the US they spec 5w20 to meet fleet mileage/emissions standards; the marginally thinner oil gets a tiny, tiny bit better mileage, possibly at the expense of less margin of safety and possibly a little more oil getting past the valve guides. Everywhere else, the same engine uses 5w30 just fine.

Didnt know that.
Thanks

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[Caravaner]

This thread was extremely useful to me. I have the exact same issue with my 2005 Grand Caravan, including the occasional issue of shifting into drive in the morning. I started to embark on a tangent (replacing the solenoid), before I found this thread. As it turns out, I can see that the condenser is leaking from the front of the car, looking through the slats in the grill. The unit is all wet on the outside with fluid in only one area.

I do think the service manager at the dealer that the original poster used was mistaken, when he suggested that there was "cross contamination" between the AC and tranny, or the antifreeze and tranny. But I suppose it is possible, if the separate tubes in the unit for the AC and tranny fluid were BOTH leaking at the same time.

I am going to get some estimates for replacing the part. I am not comfortable doing the job myself, particularly since it requires AC work.

The concern I have regarding suggestions that this part be "bypassed" with a separate transmission cooler has to do with space. Where would you put an additional cooler? I don't think there is enough available space in front of the radiator for an additional cooler. The condenser/tranny cooler is about the size of the radiator, and it pretty much takes up all the available space between the radiator and the front bumper.

It is true that the AC works fine, and theoretically the idea of putting in a separate tranny cooler seems logical. But I don't think there is space for one.

I don't want to suggest an option to the shop that isn't feasible. I am leaning toward just replacing the leaky cooler/condenser. Thoughts?

PS - I sure am hoping they don't produce an estimate as high as $1,000 for parts and labor. The aftermarket part on Amazon is only $75. The OEM Chrysler part is only $195.

 

[cvguy]

You have confirmed the tranny leak by verifying there is a small amount of fluid being lost, correct? Sounds like you have the DIY ability to do everything except the A/C. If so, one possibility is to find out what an A/C shop would charge for evacuating the system (first), and then recharging after you've completed all of the work. Nothing particularly difficult, just time consuming (hence the big tab). If you went this route, you might want to also consider replacing the rad, if it hasn't already been swapped out.

 

[97K15004WD]

This thread was extremely useful to me. I have the exact same issue with my 2005 Grand Caravan, including the occasional issue of shifting into drive in the morning. I started to embark on a tangent (replacing the solenoid), before I found this thread. As it turns out, I can see that the condenser is leaking from the front of the car, looking through the slats in the grill. The unit is all wet on the outside with fluid in only one area.

I do think the service manager at the dealer that the original poster used was mistaken, when he suggested that there was "cross contamination" between the AC and tranny, or the antifreeze and tranny. But I suppose it is possible, if the separate tubes in the unit for the AC and tranny fluid were BOTH leaking at the same time.

I am going to get some estimates for replacing the part. I am not comfortable doing the job myself, particularly since it requires AC work.

The concern I have regarding suggestions that this part be "bypassed" with a separate transmission cooler has to do with space. Where would you put an additional cooler? I don't think there is enough available space in front of the radiator for an additional cooler. The condenser/tranny cooler is about the size of the radiator, and it pretty much takes up all the available space between the radiator and the front bumper.

It is true that the AC works fine, and theoretically the idea of putting in a separate tranny cooler seems logical. But I don't think there is space for one.

I don't want to suggest an option to the shop that isn't feasible. I am leaning toward just replacing the leaky cooler/condenser. Thoughts?

Welcome to the fourm!

 

[itsallgood]

This thread was extremely useful to me. I have the exact same issue with my 2005 Grand Caravan, including the occasional issue of shifting into drive in the morning. I started to embark on a tangent (replacing the solenoid), before I found this thread. As it turns out, I can see that the condenser is leaking from the front of the car, looking through the slats in the grill. The unit is all wet on the outside with fluid in only one area.

I do think the service manager at the dealer that the original poster used was mistaken, when he suggested that there was "cross contamination" between the AC and tranny, or the antifreeze and tranny. But I suppose it is possible, if the separate tubes in the unit for the AC and tranny fluid were BOTH leaking at the same time.

I am going to get some estimates for replacing the part. I am not comfortable doing the job myself, particularly since it requires AC work.

The concern I have regarding suggestions that this part be "bypassed" with a separate transmission cooler has to do with space. Where would you put an additional cooler? I don't think there is enough available space in front of the radiator for an additional cooler. The condenser/tranny cooler is about the size of the radiator, and it pretty much takes up all the available space between the radiator and the front bumper.

It is true that the AC works fine, and theoretically the idea of putting in a separate tranny cooler seems logical. But I don't think there is space for one.

I don't want to suggest an option to the shop that isn't feasible. I am leaning toward just replacing the leaky cooler/condenser. Thoughts?

PS - I sure am hoping they don't produce an estimate as high as $1,000 for parts and labor. The aftermarket part on Amazon is only $75. The OEM Chrysler part is only $195.

Maybe this video will help with how to install an external tranny cooler. The video is for a 2006.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2MDlttGcvY

 

[Caravaner]

Thanks for the responses. I was considering doing the job myself, and as suggested find a shop to just do the AC portion.

You are correct itsallgood, this video does show that there is space in front of the existing cooler. I had previously watched the video, and had mistakenly thought it was the radiator itself that he was attaching the new cooler to.

So in this video he is keeping the old cooler installed and adding the additional cooler. Since my cooler is leaking, I would be bypassing the original rather than adding to it.

In fact won't it be easier to bypass the original cooler than using as shown in the video? All I would have to do is attach the lines to the new cooler, and cap the original holes on the other cooler somehow.

HOWEVER, my concern is this: There is tranny fluid between the fins on a portion of the condenser/cooler. Will the part still function properly as a condenser? I would say about 2/3 of the fins are dry, and I would think most of the fluid is in the area from the leaking tranny section. But some of the fluid may have flowed down between the fins of the condenser portion.

What happens to the AC if the condenser isn't working properly?

Now the idea of putting in the tranny cooler and not having to touch the AC is very appealing. I have the time and garage space. But I want to make sure I don't mess up the AC by leaving it as is. Again, the AC currently works fine.

Thanks again to all.



This way I won't have to touch the AC at all, and I won't need a shop for any part of the work.

 

[Caravaner]

Any recommendations for tranny cooler kits?

2005 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT 3.8 145K.

 

[itsallgood]

Thanks for the responses. I was considering doing the job myself, and as suggested find a shop to just do the AC portion.

You are correct itsallgood, this video does show that there is space in front of the existing cooler. I had previously watched the video, and had mistakenly thought it was the radiator itself that he was attaching the new cooler to.

So in this video he is keeping the old cooler installed and adding the additional cooler. Since my cooler is leaking, I would be bypassing the original rather than adding to it.

In fact won't it be easier to bypass the original cooler than using as shown in the video? All I would have to do is attach the lines to the new cooler, and cap the original holes on the other cooler somehow.

HOWEVER, my concern is this: There is tranny fluid between the fins on a portion of the condenser/cooler. Will the part still function properly as a condenser? I would say about 2/3 of the fins are dry, and I would think most of the fluid is in the area from the leaking tranny section. But some of the fluid may have flowed down between the fins of the condenser portion.

What happens to the AC if the condenser isn't working properly?

Now the idea of putting in the tranny cooler and not having to touch the AC is very appealing. I have the time and garage space. But I want to make sure I don't mess up the AC by leaving it as is. Again, the AC currently works fine.

Thanks again to all.



This way I won't have to touch the AC at all, and I won't need a shop for any part of the work.

Not sure if it would be easier to by pass the original cooler. You should be able to bypass the existing cooler, and just use the one you install. Just cap off the old cooler to prevent leaks and your good to go.

As to the condenser/cooler leaking, my advise would be to replace it and prevent problems down the road. Your AC might work for now, but if any of the trans. fluid get in the AC system, that would be very bad and cost thousands of dollars to replace components.

If the AC condenser isn't working, meaning it has a hole in it, you will get air, moisture and dirt in the system. You AC won't be cold and you can damage the compressor and evaporator core. Again, costing you thousands of dollars in repairs. (if you have triple zone ac/heat, it might cost double for repairs.)

If you do the job your self, you will need: 1) Set of ac gauges, 2) Vacuum pump, 3) New ac condenser, 4) Receiver/dryer and 5) ac oil (PAG). First, have a shop to evacuate the system. (Empty it out). Then install your replacement parts. Put the system on a vacuum to test for leaks. You can then either put more Freon in or take it back to a shop to recharge the system. These are the videos I viewed when I replaced our condenser and receiver/dryer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lglPJuBXVeE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01NJapxUzXs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHinsH_EVts

 

[Caravaner]

I will give it a little more thought regarding whether to replace the existing part or add the tranny cooler instead. I don't think I will do both. I do not tow anything with this vehicle, and don't usually even carry additional passengers. I would think it wouldn't need the extra cooler.

If I do choose to just add the new cooler and leave the old one in, would the best way to cap the old tranny fluid connections be to maybe just cut those lines fairly close to the connectors and simply crimp down the leftover piece of hose? After all, no fluid under any pressure will be coming out of those holes.

I am seeing so many different tranny coolers. Anybody have any specific recommendations?

If I do decide to replace the cooler/condenser, I will definitely have a shop do the before and after AC work.

Thanks again.

 

[itsallgood]

I will give it a little more thought regarding whether to replace the existing part or add the tranny cooler instead. I don't think I will do both. I do not tow anything with this vehicle, and don't usually even carry additional passengers. I would think it wouldn't need the extra cooler.

If I do choose to just add the new cooler and leave the old one in, would the best way to cap the old tranny fluid connections be to maybe just cut those lines fairly close to the connectors and simply crimp down the leftover piece of hose? After all, no fluid under any pressure will be coming out of those holes.

I am seeing so many different tranny coolers. Anybody have any specific recommendations?

If I do decide to replace the cooler/condenser, I will definitely have a shop do the before and after AC work.

Thanks again.

Not sure the best way to block off the existing cooler lines. Do a Google search and see what comes up.

I bought a Spectra ac receiver/drier and condenser off Amazon. Total for both was $112.

 

[Joel_B]

Here are some curveballs to think about:

1. A transmission cooler, unless it is blocking or severely restricting fluid flow for some reason, has ZERO bearing on any shifting problems. Zero. I think the original poster got taken to the cleaners when all he should have had done at first was a trans flush. Stuck or worn valves or tired fluid could be causing these symptoms, or even a solenoid pack ($90 on Amazon, BTW, and easy to install yourself). But not a cooler assembly.

2. Transmission fluid can NEVER cross-contaminate into the AC system, even on these vans which share a cooler assembly up front. AC system pressures are ALWAYS high, like 80psi or more. When the system is on, the refrigerant pressure inside that cooler is usually over 170psi or so. Transmission cooler pressure is 20psi or less on these vans, and if you want to check yourself, disconnect the passenger side trans cooler hose from the transmission, have a buddy start the van and put it in D and watch how slowly fluid comes out of that line. Trans fluid could never ever make its way into the AC system.

3. Adding additional transmission coolers on these vans is pointless for several reasons:

• Adding an external cooler only adds more weight and failure points to the transmission system.
• Back when ATF was much poorer quality, additional a transmission cooler extended the fluid life, but if you simply flush out the fluid after heavy towing, you get the same benefit with no added weight or parts to fail.
• ATF+4 is full synthetic and has excellent high-heat durability.
• Even Chrysler did not add additional trans cooling with their tow package. Power steering cooling and engine oil cooling yes, but not transmission. Think about that.

If you genuinely have a leak in that cooler, and it's significant, then yes, replace it. But otherwise I wouldn't. Trans fluid will collect dirt and dust and act as an insulating blanket, reducing AC performance. That's the only reason I'd replace that condenser.

My recommendation - try a fluid flush FIRST, then keep and eye on the fluid, and if it gets dirty soon after (as soon as 60 miles) flush it again and repeat until it stays clean.

 

[Caravaner]

Thanks for the thoughts, guys. I truly do appreciate it.

Just to clarify my issue, I absolutely do have a significant enough leak in the part that it needs either replacing or bypassing.

The advantage of replacing the part is that I won't have to worry about whether or not the part will continue to function properly for the AC. As Joel suggested, will the fins that are coated with leaked fluid right now attract dust, etc, leading to diminished performance of the AC. I don't want to choose bypassing with a tranny cooler, only to have to go back in later and replace the condenser because the AC is failing.

But given that the entire part is not coated with fluid, only the upper left quadrant, is it likely that the fins for the AC are dry and will be fine?

The advantage of bypassing is that I won't have to touch the AC. Once again, the AC is currently fully cooling without issue.

Is is possible to clean out the fins that are currently coated with leaked fluid?

I agree with Joel, and I do not believe there is much of a concern of cross-contamination.

Frankly, I would prefer at this point to bypass to an after-market cooler, due to the advantage of not having to take the van to a shop to do the AC work required if replacing the condenser.

If I do choose to bypass rather than replace (Still haven't decided yet) I am leaning toward this cooler:

http://www.amazon.com/Hayden-Automo...ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1441209483&sr=1-1&keywords=trans+cooler+kit

I would appreciate any opinions about this choice.

Thanks guys.

 

[Caravaner]

I also want to clarify the appearance of the leaking condenser/cooler right now.

Looking at the fins on the front of the unit from the front of the car, through the slats in the grill:

The entire right side of the unit, top to bottom, is bone dry. I see no fluid on any of the fins.

The very top of the left side is also dry. Maybe the top three or four inches.
The rest of the left side, all the way to the bottom, is wet. All of the fins are coated.

I don't understand exactly how the leak is coming out. Is it necessarily leaking at the top and flowing down, or is the unit filling with fluid internally from a hole, and then leaking out through all the fins? If this was the case, why is the right side completely dry?

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2005 Grand Caravan SXT 3.8 - 140K. Purchased used with 90K.