[Jeepman]

This is a Thread that provides warnings, cautions and other information based on lessons learned and hands on experiences. It could cover anything from spark plugs to drain plugs used on your vehicle.

The first experience/warning will be about the use of quick struts. Please make sure you identify the year of your vehicle and engine/transmission size/type when posting. Mileage helps as well.

 

[Jeepman]

Preassembled struts / Quick Struts with weak coil springs

Warning: Don't buy without thorough research.
Some experiences where the springs weren't strong enough follow:

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/21883-Front-strut-replacement-issue

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25461-new-quick-struts-hit-big-bump-now-noises

 

[Jeepman]

Drain holes plugged in rocker panels

On the Generation 4s, there is atleast one drain hole in the front rocker panel and one in the rear rocker panel. I have found these holes (in the rear rocker panel on my 2007 GC) plugged with sealant, hence trapped moisture, hence rust out. Water does get into these rocker panels from somewhere, maybe in seams above the sliding doors.

For more info on dealing with the results of poor drainage take a look at these sites:
http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25270-What-is-the-best-rustproofing

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25360-save-your-rocker-panels-how-to

http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/showthread.php/25322-Fiberglassing-and-Fluid-Filming-can-be-fun This Thread locates the drain holes @ http://forum.chryslerminivan.net/sh...-Fluid-Filming-can-be-fun?p=242383#post242383

 

[Jeepman]

Watch out for charges and workmanship when having tires replaced

A friend had the Michelin Ice winter tires, with about 4/32" tread depth left, replaced at a local CTC. I consider those tires an ice tire more so than a snow tire and not what I would buy. The inside edges were worn as well. Anyway, back on track.
Pros and cons:
- was able to get an appointment fairly quickly. (+)
- tires (General Altimax Artic) were a good deal, 4 for the price of 3 bringing them in at $150.00 plus tax, etc. for 215/55R-16. Reviews are good on those tires. (+)
- tire installation and regular road hazard insurance included per tire. (+)
- charged her for extra road hazard insurance (protection plan), ie replace tire instead of doing only a tread wear adjustment which wasn't asked for or discussed ($7.00 per tire). I would have recommended that in her situation. Sometimes I get the extra insurance (Jeep), sometimes I don't (2002 GC). (-/+)
- balancing at $13.00 per tire. (+)
- charged her for nitrogen which she didn't ask for and which wasn't discussed ($4.00 per tire). A waste. (-)
- charged her $4.66 for shop supplies, a rip off but some shops charge more. If a higher price, ask for a detailed breakdown of those shop supplies and if you don't get one, don't pay for it. (-)
- charged a $3.00 per tire environmental fee (normal charge).
- torqued lug nuts to something less than 65 ft.lb., somewhere between 60 and 65 (80 ft.lbs. is called for). (-)

Considering that the busy season hasn't even started yet, they appear to be well on their way to making money and providing sloppy service. They used torque sticks but must have used the wrong one. An experienced technician would know the difference in torque between a 60 and an 80 torque, so I'm assuming somebody new at the job did the work.

Watch out for these tactics and poor workmanship at any (not just CTC has this problem) tire change shop you go to during the busy season. It's not uncommon for wheels to fall off due to not taking/having enough time to do a proper job. Get yourself a torque wrench if you don't have one.

Tip: If you torque a lug nut up to say 90 ft.lbs. and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, you can recheck it at 95 ft. lbs.and the wrench will click out as if it had been torqued to 95 ft. lbs. to begin with.

 

[Jeepman]

A friend had the Michelin Ice winter tires, with about 4/32" tread depth left, replaced at a local CTC. I consider those tires an ice tire more so than a snow tire and not what I would buy. The inside edges were worn as well. Anyway, back on track.
Pros and cons:
- was able to get an appointment fairly quickly. (+)
- tires (General Altimax Artic) were a good deal, 4 for the price of 3 bringing them in at $150.00 plus tax, etc. for 215/55R-16. Reviews are good on those tires. (+)
- tire installation and regular road hazard insurance included per tire. (+)
- charged her for extra road hazard insurance (protection plan), ie replace tire instead of doing only a tread wear adjustment which wasn't asked for or discussed ($7.00 per tire). I would have recommended that in her situation. Sometimes I get the extra insurance (Jeep), sometimes I don't (2002 GC). (-/+)
- balancing at $13.00 per tire. (+)
- charged her for nitrogen which she didn't ask for and which wasn't discussed ($4.00 per tire). A waste. (-)
- charged her $4.66 for shop supplies, a rip off but some shops charge more. If a higher price, ask for a detailed breakdown of those shop supplies and if you don't get one, don't pay for it. (-)
- charged a $3.00 per tire environmental fee (normal charge).
- torqued lug nuts to something less than 65 ft.lb., somewhere between 60 and 65 (80 ft.lbs. is called for). (-)
Considering that the busy season hasn't even started yet, they appear to be well on their way to making money and providing sloppy service. They used torque sticks but must have used the wrong one. An experienced technician would know the difference in torque between a 60 and an 80 torque, so I'm assuming somebody new at the job did the work.

Watch out for these tactics and poor workmanship at any (not just CTC has this problem) tire change shop you go to during the busy season. It's not uncommon for wheels to fall off due to not taking/having enough time to do a proper job. Get yourself a torque wrench if you don't have one.

Tip: If you torque a lug nut up to say 90 ft.lbs. and let it sit for 10 minutes or so, you can recheck it at 95 ft. lbs.and the wrench will click out as if it had been torqued to 95 ft. lbs. to begin with.

It happened again, ie low lug nut torque. My Friend had the above 2004 Acura TSX at the Acura Dealership for routine service last week and the vehicle came back with something less than 60 ft.lbs. for torque on the lug nuts (versus 80 specified). It seemed consistent as to torque level but much lower than spec. Would the lug nuts have loosened up eventually and caused problems? I would think so.

So, I decided to check the lug nuts on my Son's 2009 Honda CRV yesterday, which recently had winter wheels installed at the Honda Dealership near his work. I used 80 ft. lbs. and they tested fine at that level. One out of three Shops doing a proper job is not a good statistic. Have you checked your lug nuts lately after a winter tire change over? If not, you probably should.

 

[Jeepman]

Documentation Fees (and other fees) when buying a vehicle

As to documentation fees or administration fees, that's a racket IMO.

Some jurisdictions require that such fees be stated initially, while others don't, so you get the "surprise" when you sit down to finalize the deal.

Some refuse to pay these fees, and you may be able to swing that. When I bought the 2007 GC back in May 2011, I got hit with a $500.00 documentation fee out of the blue while settling on a price. I told the salesman that I made my offer, minus any documentation fee, and they could think about it over night and let me know the next day. I wasn't hooked on the vehicle, they backed down, and we closed the deal then and there per my offer. I didn't pay any documentation fee. If you know anybody that is in the vehicle selling business, ask them about documentation fees and how to avoid them.

The Salesman said to me that he had never sold a vehicle without documentation fees. That was BS I think but he also said it was near month end, sales were down some, so they wanted to sell the vehicle. So, buying near month end may get the price down some.

Some reference material re fees:

February 17, 2012 -Massachusetts Car Buyers Charged Hundreds in Documentation Fees - Consumer Affairs survey finds questionable fees at 70 percent of dealerships. http://www.mass.gov/ocabr/press-releases/20120217-carbuyers.html

Generally, "document preparation" fees are not revealed until the final stages of a negotiation over the price of an automobile. The Office of Consumer Affairs advises consumers to make these fees part of the negotiation process and to bargain with a dealer to take the fees off the final agreed upon price.

"Car buyers need to look closely at what they are being charged for," Anthony said. "And consumers should shop around, especially if a particular dealership tries to hit you with non-negotiable documentation fees."

Documentation Fees by State at http://www.realcartips.com/newcars/482-documentation-fees-by-state.shtml

The lowdown on dealer fees - Canada - Which fees should you count on? And which ones are just hot air? October, 2010 at http://autos.sympatico.ca/new-car-guide/6373/the-lowdown-on-dealer-fees

"BC, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec have all (relatively) recently introduced legislation that requires dealers and/or dealer groups to disclose any mandatory fees — including admin fees — in their advertised prices.

 

[Hodges710]

When dealing with a dealership for a purchase of a new or slightly used vehicle, never deal with the salesperson, he/she is only there to make money off of sales. Millions dont know this but ask for the fleet manager, they will get you deals that the salesperson cant/wont. Their pay isnt based on commission so they wont lie to you regarding a said vehicle/s.

 

[Jeepman]

The front box or item on the shelf

This may be the one that fell to the floor or was tampered with.

People have been known to switch oil filters from one box to another for example, putting a less expensive filter in a more expensive filter box, while they go through the checkout with the more expensive filter in the less expensive oil filter box.

The front item on the shelf may also be a returned item, with damage / dirt included. Sometimes damaged items aren't reported properly when they are returned. When getting parts, check what's in the box. Grease marks indicate somebody has had that part, intending to use it, but returned it for some reason.

Expiry dates are another issue, where applicable. The newer stuff is likely to the back of the shelf. Also check tires, especially those on sale, for manufactured dates.

The "last one in stock" is another red flag. The "last one in stock" may not include an "O" ring for example. That's my recent experience when looking at a transmission filter/gasket kit at NAPA, even though an "O" ring was shown on the box. That was likely a returned item.

 

[Jeepman]

Lug nuts tightened over 110 ft. lbs.

....... those that tighten lug nuts on your van with an impact wrench and then check with a torque wrench set at 110 ft.lbs., the torque wrench not even rotating the nuts.

Best to back those lugs nuts off real quick and torque them up properly.

I witnessed that yesterday, first time I have seen that method used. Live and learn.

 

[Jeepman]

Mechanics and Auto Supply Stores that tout replacing parts, for examples spark plugs and shocks/struts, long before they need be replaced per your Owner Manual or the part Manufacturer's technical data.

1. Are you still changing your oil at 3,000 miles / 5,000 kms?

The 3,000-mile myth is also promoted by the quick-lube industry's "convenient reminder" windshield sticker. It is a surprisingly effective tool that prompts us to continue following a dictate that our fathers (or grandfathers) drummed into our heads: It's your duty to change your oil every 3,000 miles — or your car will pay the price. But as former service advisor David Langness put it, the 3,000-mile oil change is "a marketing tactic that dealers use to get you into the service bay on a regular basis. Unless you go to the drag strip on weekends, you don't need it."

Car dealers' service departments are also guilty of incorrectly listing the mileage for the next oil change. We've seen them recommend a 3,000-mile oil change on a car with a 10,000-mile interval and also list a 5,000-mile recommendation on a car that has a variable oil change schedule.
http://www.edmunds.com/car-care/stop-changing-your-oil.html

2. Change Champion Double Platinum Spark Plugs at 80,000 kms??? 80,000 kms is only 50,000 miles, but that's what this week's Canadian Tire Flyer says on Page 28 @ http://flyer.canadiantire.ca/Canadi...400340&PromotionID=103892&PromotionViewMode=1 What a waste of spark plug when Champion itself says:

Champion Double Platinum Power spark plugs are covered by a 5-year unlimited mileage guarantee
http://www.alwaysachampion.com/products/automotive

3. Replace the struts every 50,000 miles ..... mmmmmm ..... think about that one. Struts on my 2002 GC are at 195,000 miles and the right front recently survived a direct right front bumper and direct wheel collision with a giant raccoon, felt like I had hit a bottomless pothole.

Are struts a lifetime item? No, shock and struts are wearable items and go bad with use. Some replacement shocks or struts come with a lifetime guarantee, but I've never seen one continue to deliver proper service the life of a vehicle.

What is the recommended replacement interval for shocks and struts? They should be replaced every 50,000 to 70,000 miles or when the vehicle fails a visual inspection, a bounce test, or when tires show choppy wear patterns.
Sounds convincing at http://www.examiner.com/article/how-often-should-your-vehicle-s-shocks-and-struts-be-changed

I'm sure there are lots more examples of misleading (profit making) recommendations to "watch out for". Have you been conned lately?

 

[04anniversaryedition]

Yup, so many myths. Then we have the air filter "change every year 12,000 miles myth"

 

[443k3.3]

Watch out when purchasing a new tire that you are charged for the tpms tire pressure monitoring service only if you have tpm on your vehicle.

 

[Wire tree guy]

Oil filters for 3.6 got a "warning" on facebook that all 3.6 filters are not the same gen 2 is different and that is why some engine were failing.

I will fond it again and edit this with the years.

 

[GrandCaravan4Life]

Yup, so many myths. Then we have the air filter "change every year 12,000 miles myth"

I change mine when I see that it is dirty.

 

[Jeepman]

Winter is on its way. Watch out for freezing windshield washer fluid, having no windshield/window scrapers in your vehicle, and low tread depth on your tires.

Might want to change your oil for the winter?

How old is your battery?

Rustoroofing/corrosion protection?

 

[Road Ripper]

Watch out for windshield cracks! I had a 6" crack for a year, that this week just spread across most of the windshield in 2 days because of the cold air outside and warm defrost air inside. The crack started on my passenger side, and just darted across and up right into my line of sight on the drivers side. It was just replaced 5-6 years ago by Safelite.

Watch out for Safelite! They have a LOT of negative reviews online. When they swapped out the van windshield, they had to reschedule once and then they lost the 6 nuts that hold the plastic cowl cover on under the hood. The windshield cracked last fall when a tiny pebble hit it from an oncoming truck. Our Dodge Magnum had the windshield replaced 3 times by them in less than 3 years. I now believe they use cheap glass that is thinner than OEM. We had the final windshield replaced by an independent guy who does the windshields for the local DODGE dealer, and uses OE glass. That one lasted for the 2 years that we kept the car up to selling it, and maybe it's still good today? That says something about quality materials.

 

[helladamnleet]

Watch out for windshield cracks! I had a 6" crack for a year, that this week just spread across most of the windshield in 2 days because of the cold air outside and warm defrost air inside. The crack started on my passenger side, and just darted across and up right into my line of sight on the drivers side. It was just replaced 5-6 years ago by Safelite.

Watch out for Safelite! They have a LOT of negative reviews online. When they swapped out the van windshield, they had to reschedule once and then they lost the 6 nuts that hold the plastic cowl cover on under the hood. The windshield cracked last fall when a tiny pebble hit it from an oncoming truck. Our Dodge Magnum had the windshield replaced 3 times by them in less than 3 years. I now believe they use cheap glass that is thinner than OEM. We had the final windshield replaced by an independent guy who does the windshields for the local DODGE dealer, and uses OE glass. That one lasted for the 2 years that we kept the car up to selling it, and maybe it's still good today? That says something about quality materials.

In addition to this, make sure your rear defogger has a TIGHT connection. I had one arc against the glass and completely shatter the back window.