The Chrysler Minivan Fan Club Forums banner

1 - 20 of 87 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
My 2003 Grand Caravan leaking coolant pretty bad , so figured my water pump was gone. Read some threads, watched some youtube videos. Everything seemed pretty straightforward. So today I got started on it. I drained the coolant using the bottom radiator hose. I used my serpentine belt tool to aid in loosening the three 13mm bolts, and, then removing the belt from the pulley. I was able to get to, and loosen four of the 10mm bolts without any real difficulty. Here is where I must have missed something. The fifth 10mm bolt that is at the top and in back, was a real bugger for me. I had a real hard time figuring how to get to it, and this was not mentioned in any of the threads I read or videos I watched. I must have spent two hours on it, and finally got it. Am I the only one who had a problem with it? I'm wondering how others accessed that bolt. Also, when I had all the bolts out, the pump is not wanting to come off. In the videos, they just pull on it and the pump, pretty much comes right off. Anybody got any suggestions, or advice on the problem bolt, or getting the water pump to come off? I thought about tapping it with a hammer, but figured I better ask advice first. Also the size of the motor mount bolts , supposedly is 15mm. I put a 15mm box end wrench on them and it fit pretty sloppy, I thought, and a 14mmwould not go on it. I did not have a 15mm socket handy. Appreciate any help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,147 Posts
I've never read another report on this forum of the pump being stuck on, but am familiar with this happening on other vehicles. The problem on the other make was the pump getting corroded onto the mating surface. This can be surprisingly ugly, and I remember one guy in particular having a devil of a time getting it off, and he mentioned things like hitting it dead on with a 4 lb hammer. Try some tapping with a hammer first, from every direction you can get access from. If that doesn't work, then perhaps heating it up would help to break the bond.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,697 Posts
If I remember correctly, and it is a long time ago, on my 2003, I had problems putting the pump back on. What I think I remember doing, is starting with a couple of very long bolts just to hold it up, and then putting in the other bolts, and then removing the long bolts, and then putting in the correct bolts. That said, I don't trust my memory, nor do I trust Jeepman's memory!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I've replace water pumps on many vehicles, but after looking at a video showing replacing a Caravan's water pump, I realized I've not done it on this vehicle. I suppose it could be in a less accessible location, but I've certainly not experienced it.

Could you possibly find a piece of 1x1 angle iron or square tubing or something similar? I'm thinking you could drill it to bolt it to the water pump using 2 of the 3 bolts that normally fasten the pulley, then use it as a lever to pull the pump off.
58248
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I've never read another report on this forum of the pump being stuck on, but am familiar with this happening on other vehicles. The problem on the other make was the pump getting corroded onto the mating surface. This can be surprisingly ugly, and I remember one guy in particular having a devil of a time getting it off, and he mentioned things like hitting it dead on with a 4 lb hammer. Try some tapping with a hammer first, from every direction you can get access from. If that doesn't work, then perhaps heating it up would help to break the bond.
Thanks for the response. The pump rotates, the bolts being out, so I don't think that is the problem. Like I said , the videos I watched, all showed the pump being pulled off by hand, with no problem, and the threads I read did not mention difficulty pulling the pump off. A little bit of tapping will likely take care of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
I've replace water pumps on many vehicles, but after looking at a video showing replacing a Caravan's water pump, I realized I've not done it on this vehicle. I suppose it could be in a less accessible location, but I've certainly not experienced it.

Could you possibly find a piece of 1x1 angle iron or square tubing or something similar? I'm thinking you could drill it to bolt it to the water pump using 2 of the 3 bolts that normally fasten the pulley, then use it as a lever to pull the pump off.
View attachment 58248
Thanks for the response. I think a bit of prying or tapping will likely take care of it. I watched some more youtube and came across a couple that did mention the 5th bolt being hard to get to, and also one that pried on the pump to get it off.
 

·
Registered
2005 DGCV 3.3L
Joined
·
58 Posts
Donal63:

I have replaced my 05 DGCV 3.3L WPs two times, here are a few of my removal notes...

1) Regarding removal of the WP and the WP being stuck to the 'timing cover w/ the WP housing':
A) Releasing the WP's gasket seal:
  • Yes, all of my WP's mounting housing's had to tapped lightly to release the rubber gaskets grip.
  • I believe it was the lower left ( at 7 o'clock) bolt where the WP's mounting housing extended slightly off of the timing cover and I was able to tap the WP outward (towards the rotor)
  • Since the timing cover is aluminum (soft), avoid using a metal object in between the WP and the timing cover.
B) Sliding the WP impeller out of the timing cover's WP housing:
  • The WP's impeller has to be centered (positioned up/down/right & left) for the impeller portion to come out of the WP housing opening.
  • The WP's impeller when in place inside the entire WP can move up or down up ~1/2", which means that it will not come out of the housing until it is centered
2) Regarding the 'toughest to reach' (e.g. top rightmost) of the 5 bolts from the underside of the van only::
  • Yes, from the underside, that upper rightmost bolt is tough sledding since it is blind.
  • I used a small 1/4 socket set and socket wrenches on the upper bolts.
  • I also have to access the bolts by positioning myself both to the left (behind the passenger rotor) and right (forward of the passenger rotor) sides of the WP
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Donal63:
I have replaced my 05 DGCV 3.3L WPs two times, here are a few of my removal notes...
1) Regarding removal of the WP and the WP being stuck to the 'timing cover w/ the WP housing':
A) Releasing the WP's gasket seal:
  • Yes, all of my WP's mounting housing's had to tapped lightly to release the rubber gaskets grip.
  • I believe it was the lower left ( at 7 o'clock) bolt where the WP's mounting housing extended slightly off of the timing cover and I was able to tap the WP outward (towards the rotor)
  • Since the timing cover is aluminum (soft), avoid using a metal object in between the WP and the timing cover.
B) Sliding the WP impeller out of the timing cover's WP housing:
  • The WP's impeller has to be centered (positioned up/down/right & left) for the impeller portion to come out of the WP housing opening.
  • The WP's impeller when in place inside the entire WP can move up or down up ~1/2", which means that it will not come out of the housing until it is centered
2) Regarding the 'toughest to reach' (e.g. top rightmost) of the 5 bolts from the underside of the van only::
  • Yes, from the underside, that upper rightmost bolt is tough sledding since it is blind.
  • I used a small 1/4 socket set and socket wrenches on the upper bolts.
  • I also have to access the bolts by positioning myself both to the left (behind the passenger rotor) and right (forward of the passenger rotor) sides of the WP
Did you loosed the bolts at the motor mount to remove the pump/pulley?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Update. Jacked the van up and on a jack stand. Got underneath and got started moving the water pump around, but there was no movement at all , out / in. I got my ball peen hammer and tapped a bit, here and there. Then, it happened. There was some movement out, and I think I tapped it a time or two, and it not only came out of the housing, the whole assembly, fell out, completely free, into my hands. I was surprised. I was expecting to have to do all kinds of manipulations, or loosen the mounting bolts to get it free.Guess I just got lucky on my positioning. A thunderstorm was coming in pretty quick, so I did not have much time to check things out. The surfaces on the housing and the water pump were pretty clean. I expected the old pump to be all loose and ragged, but it was all tight and snug as could be. Made me wonder was it even bad? There was sure a lot of coolant, leaking from somewhere down there. My van has about 233,000 miles on it, so surely it is not the original pump? Whoever put it on, there was not a bunch of excess gasket sealer on the surfaces. Anyway, I got everything put up, and the van off the jackstand before the rain started. I'll have to come at it again another day. jerseyhilltopper, now that it is off, and I'm home, trying to figure out what I did, and re-reading your post, I have a better understanding of what you were saying. Thanks a bunch!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
Update. Jacked the van up and on a jack stand. Got underneath and got started moving the water pump around, but there was no movement at all , out / in. I got my ball peen hammer and tapped a bit, here and there. Then, it happened. There was some movement out, and I think I tapped it a time or two, and it not only came out of the housing, the whole assembly, fell out, completely free, into my hands. I was surprised. I was expecting to have to do all kinds of manipulations, or loosen the mounting bolts to get it free.Guess I just got lucky on my positioning. A thunderstorm was coming in pretty quick, so I did not have much time to check things out. The surfaces on the housing and the water pump were pretty clean. I expected the old pump to be all loose and ragged, but it was all tight and snug as could be. Made me wonder was it even bad? There was sure a lot of coolant, leaking from somewhere down there. My van has about 233,000 miles on it, so surely it is not the original pump? Whoever put it on, there was not a bunch of excess gasket sealer on the surfaces. Anyway, I got everything put up, and the van off the jackstand before the rain started. I'll have to come at it again another day. jerseyhilltopper, now that it is off, and I'm home, trying to figure out what I did, and re-reading your post, I have a better understanding of what you were saying. Thanks a bunch!
You don't use gasket sealant on these pumps, they have an o-ring. Sealer is not necessary and will make a mess.
Second, are you sure the leak isn't from the water tube that connects to the timing cover? There's a big o-ring where it goes into the cover, and these tubes often get corroded and develop pinholes.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
The only thing I know bout these pumps is what I read on forums, from googling and watching youtube videos. From that, it is my thought that the the purpose of the sealer, is to hold the o ring in place, till the pump is mounted. That looks to be what was done with this pump.
Before I removed the pump, I was confident that it was the pump. Coolant was leaking pretty bad from somewhere in the area of the pump, and there was coolant kinda everywhere. There was a large corrugated looking tubing or something, back towards the firewall that had coolant all over it. I figured it was thrown there by the pump. Having this pump off, and finding nothing loose about it, maybe it is not bad. I don't know. I could not investigate today, I had to get out of the way of the thunderstorm.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
The o-ring fits around the pump flange. There's no need to "hold it in place". It should stay in place by itself. The o-ring relies on the pump being pulled flush to the mounting surface to work. If you're globbing sealer in there, It's going to be hard to tell if the pump is flush or not, and the sealer my actually interfere with the tension on the o-ring that creates the seal in the first place. Never put sealers, adhesives, or RTV on o-rings. You're just asking for trouble.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,790 Posts
If I remember correctly, and it is a long time ago, on my 2003, I had problems putting the pump back on. What I think I remember doing, is starting with a couple of very long bolts just to hold it up, and then putting in the other bolts, and then removing the long bolts, and then putting in the correct bolts. That said, I don't trust my memory, nor do I trust Jeepman's memory!
What memory, I don't have any, never replaced a water pump on a 6 cylinder engine, never had one fail, but did a few on V8s, many years back, before your time. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
What memory, I don't have any, never replaced a water pump on a 6 cylinder engine, never had one fail, but did a few on V8s, many years back, before your time. :)
If you hate doing spark plugs on a transverse V-6 because of clearance, I guarantee you'll hate doing a water pump. You an't even get the pulley off with the pump installed on a gen 4. You have to unbolt it and work around it.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,790 Posts
If you hate doing spark plugs on a transverse V-6 because of clearance, I guarantee you'll hate doing a water pump. You an't even get the pulley off with the pump installed on a gen 4. You have to unbolt it and work around it.
I worked on that type of setup once, maybe on an Audi Fox when changing the timing belt.

I don't hate doing spark plugs on a 4th Generation. I remove the wiper tray and have a field day with all the room and great visibility. I can check out lots of stuff, make sure the squirrels haven't been eating my wiring, apply some Fluid Film here and there, enjoy the clicking sound of the torque wrench, and replace other stuff while I'm at it. When all is said and done, throw in a bale of straw, have a nap, get up, put the wiper tray back on, and call it a day. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
157 Posts
I worked on that type of setup once, maybe on an Audi Fox when changing the timing belt.

I don't hate doing spark plugs on a 4th Generation. I remove the wiper tray and have a field day with all the room and great visibility. I can check out lots of stuff, make sure the squirrels haven't been eating my wiring, apply some Fluid Film here and there, enjoy the clicking sound of the torque wrench, and replace other stuff while I'm at it. When all is said and done, throw in a bale of straw, have a nap, get up, put the wiper tray back on, and call it a day. :)
I think your memory is failing you. An Audi Fox never had a V-6, and didn't have a transverse engine.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
I wasn't able to get to checking out the water pump today. Hoping to get to it tomorrow. Since this water pump is now off, is there a way to tell if it is good , or not?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,790 Posts
I wasn't able to get to checking out the water pump today. Hoping to get to it tomorrow. Since this water pump is now off, is there a way to tell if it is good , or not?
Were you losing coolant at the water pump before? Was there excessive dripping at the weep hole? Is there any play in the bearing?

Water pump weep holes - designed to weep (by Gates);
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
23,790 Posts
I think your memory is failing you. An Audi Fox never had a V-6, and didn't have a transverse engine.
Yeh, I would rather forget that vehicle. :(
 

·
Registered
2005 DGCV 3.3L
Joined
·
58 Posts
Donal63,

I recommend pressurizing the cooling system in order to diagnose it.
Here are some '05 DGCV 3.3L service manual pics of heating/cooling system components that are located near the WP
The WP inlet tube and inlet hose are common sources of leaks.

A) WP inlet tube (a metal pipe, rt/passenger side of engine):
05DGCV.WaterPumpInetTube.Figure35.JPG
B) WP inlet hose (a rubber hose, rt/passenger side of engine)
05DGCV.RadiatorHosesToEngine.UpperAndLower.Figure33.JPG
C) Heater return pipe (a metal pipe w/ a ~4"L rubber hose, rear side of engine, rear side of the timing cover behind the WP housing)
05DGCV.HeaterReturnHose.Figure138..JPG
 
1 - 20 of 87 Posts
Top