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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
There is a difference in survivable and walking away. I am not referring to what the vehicle looks like but consider the forces on the body regardless of any intrusion into the passenger space. A 185lb person in a 40mph crash, buckled in, would experience forces equivalent to being hit with 15,000 lbs or over 7 tons. Yes it does depend on the angle but is none-the-less severe coming to a full stop in under 10 feet, deceleration forces exceeding 80 g. Just can't ignore the laws of physics.

If you are concerned about crash safety you should be driving a tank \sarcasm off
Yes I am concerned that the vehicle we bought had the lowest possible score in a crash test.......joke all you want, be as sarcastic as you want.
My safety and the safety of my loved ones is more important.
The Caravan is a nice vehicle, I somewhat enjoyed it up until I saw this.
I could not gather any other relevant data so I choose another vehicle that performed better across all tests.
The jokes just really show your maturity level, or perhaps you think I am targeting your van.
Just sharing info others might not know.

Take care. This is my last post here.
 

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Here's the latest data from that report... DGC is the worst... Worse than the top 3 combined across all categories.

VehicleOverall death rate (with confidence limits)Multi-vehicle crash death rateSingle-vehicle crash death rateRollover death rateModel year span
Toyota Sienna 4WD7 (0-18)4402014-17
Honda Odyssey8 (2-14)4522014-17
Toyota Sienna 2WD20 (10-31)16422014-17
Kia Sedona21 (4-38)714112015-17
Chrysler Pacifica27 (0-58)21502017
Dodge Grand Caravan41 (28-54)261552014-17
 
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No, it doesn't make any sense. If crash performance is so important to him that he would trade in a car over it, then why wouldn't he research it before buying? Especially when buying a 5 year old van that is a 13 year old design.

Also, if safety is so important, why wouldn't he buy something new that is state of the art (blind spot protection, etc). Those safety features are useful on a regular basis and help avoid a crash. The fact is the vast majority of vehicles live their lives without a serious crash.

It's like airplanes are designed not to crash, they don't try to design them to survive a crash.
 

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People don't understand statistics. There are vehicles with 0 deaths like the Lexus NX200, so if everyone drove that vehicle, nobody would die, right?

The actual death stats for the GC are close to the average "for all vehicles" so why is that so bad?

Adverse selection is a major factor with Grand Caravans. Because they are the cheapest minivan, Grand Caravans have been heavy in rental fleets, driven by people who are not accustomed to driving minivans, people on vacations driving unfamiliar roads while drunk, people who need to carry stuff and overload the things, etc.

Historically this kind of data shows not the inherent dangers of the vehicle so much as the demographics of its buyer/user group. In 1988 I bought a turbo Dodge Lancer. The turbo Daytona had 5x the number of deaths and the insurance cost twice as much compared to the Lancer. They really were/are the same vehicle, but the Daytona was bought and driven by inexperienced and risk-taking kids.

Before the small-offset test was invented, results were invisible and the GC was a 5-star safe vehicle. My insurance cost for my own GC is quite low as I'm sure it is for all minivans because insurance losses are low.
 

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You said it right. There's more too it than a test. An Odyssey sitting in a garage is not the same risk as a Dodge Grand Caravan in the taxi business. The Dodge Grand Caravan is likely the biggest people hauler of them all, by far. Look how they outsold the others in 2019.

Ancient Dodge Caravan Outsells All Other Minivans In 2019
 

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Yup, usage makes a difference. Taxis are gonna be driven aggressively, rental vehicles are gonna be driven by yahoos, etc.

NOTE--deaths in these stats are "PER MILLION REGISTERED VEHICLE YEARS" which means that out of a million people who own a GC for a year, 41 will die. Or on average, you will die once if you own and drive a GC for 24,390 years. And remember you have an effect on this stat if you are a safe, sober, and careful driver.

To show how stupid the iihs stats can be, the Honda HR-V has a death stat of 9 (aka really good) if it's a 4WD, and a death stat of 50 (aka worse than the worst GC stat) if it's 2WD. So one car is 6 times as dangerous as itself depending on whether there is a small diff in the rear.

And the Lexus NX200t that scored zero was 4WD, but if you have a 2WD version, the death stat was 15, second from the worst in its category of midsize luxo SUV's. Basically, comparisons are BS. What percentage more dangerous is the 2WD version? Infinitely more dangerous based on the math.

Again, choose a vehicle with 0 deaths and you should be fine (not). Go shop for a 4WD Lexus NX200t and you'll be safe :)

I spent my career in the pension field where death stats were everything.
 

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I had a motorcycle riding friend who would not wear a helmet. I asked him why since helmets protect you better if you wreck it. He said he could see better without the helmet so he rode more safely and didn't intend to wreck. I don't ride motorcycles and am not advocating riding without a helmet, but some things have to be about personal choice. I have driven a Grand Caravan for quite a few miles and other vehicles for a lot of miles. I never had an accident where anyone's life was in danger. That doesn't mean that could not happen. I choose not to worry about things just because they could happen.
 

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I remember the older GM vans (1997-2005) did very badly, that's why in 2005 they added that (what I called) school bus chassis looking front end.

It might be better to compare the 2008-2016 Town and Country and 2008-2020 Grand Caravan to vans from the 2007-2016 era. The Pacifica seems to be doing much better, and it came out in 2016, so 8 years later than the 5th gens originally did. Plus all of the 2008 generation vans are now discontinued since the 2020 model year, and even then, that platform was getting up there. Kind of surprised the GC made it with no major body changes for 13 model years. That's pretty unheard of these days.
 

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Yeah, there are vehicles being driven, with good crash test results, that you aren't allowed to park in enclosed parking or near a structure. Go figure. :)

My sense is that Silver thought his transmission might go south and a hungry Salesperson help turn him off the DGC.
Interesting question: What is he driving now in its place?
 
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One of the things missing from the stats is where the person who died was sitting ... it makes a difference!

I'm not sure if it was mentioned in one of the replies is that bringing a body to an instant stop because of no crumple zone is going to result in more damage to the passenger's body than a decelerated stop because of the crumple zone.

The trouble with the small offset crash is that the crumple zone crumples a little too far mangling the driver's leg and on the passenger side crash the passenger is slightly better off. Move that to a medium offset crash and you have the engine there but a smaller crumple zone.

That all says that the stats don't really tell the entire story.
 

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My sense is that Silver thought his transmission might go south and a hungry Salesperson help turn him off the DGC.
Interesting question: What is he driving now in its place?
Ask him!

He might not be posting (for now), but he's lurking around for sure.
 

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I don't worry about IIHS safety as a whole. Concerning yes sure but not enough to run away. I worked for GM when extra cabs first were introduced and the problems we had were daily. So many people were mangled or killed from cab collapse don't know how they were allowed on street but were top sellers. Ford trucks at that time would flip on sudden movement as well as Lexus. All manufacturers have problems.
 

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One of the things missing from the stats is where the person who died was sitting ... it makes a difference!
You do have to read the explanation of the stats but these are for DRIVER deaths to presumably equalize vehicle safety.

But again, if you buy a vehicle with 0 deaths, it's not gonna be death proof. And the examples I gave of 2WD vs 4WD vehicles having vastly different results shows the "coin toss" nature of these stats.
 
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I would like anyone to feel comfortable in the car they drive.
Honestly not sure every car is crash proof safe ... we do the best we can, we try to make the best decisions we can, we simply cant predict the future.

Sometimes we are just lucky to be alive. 8 years ago T boned by a drunk driver could not avoid it. 4 weeks in a hospital, cracked ribs, broken pelvic, broken collar bone, punctured lung ...blah blah blah ... 6 months to walk again.
Just saying, we do not really get a choice in these matters. Can not run or hide from them ... when it is time for your number to be up it will happen. You cant stop it.
I am thankful my wife was not a passenger here, she would be dead.

Great to have safe cars, gets a lil crazy when trying to say this production car is safer then that production car, they all meet current standards.
 

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Ask him!

He might not be posting (for now), but he's lurking around for sure.
I don't like asking embarrassing questions. :)

If he wants us to know, he will reply. (y)

I will miss him actually, he was interesting with his different points of view.
 
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