[ggoose]

There has to be a reason the factory didn't use a gasket . I don't know but when i was at Ford they insisted we use black RTV on most acapplications . It came in a tube with the Ford markings . But it probably was permatex. Just Saying

RTV is cheaper than a gasket and you can get a lot of gaskets out of a 5 gallon pail (and easier to store). Also need to consider that the rtv can be precisely applied by a robot and the pan attached after the proper cure time (also the pan and trans is dry, i.e. no trans fluid to mess up the cure and install).

 

[Sienile]

I have to be mighty paranoid about a future leak to let RTV pre-cure before bolting it down. Ultra grey doesn't need it.

 

[Chaveeraj]

Moderators Note:
The conversation inspired by this post was moved to Chaveeraj's other post about transmission fluid here: Light burnt trans oil smell

Very interesting thanks for the video. I have a high mileagegrand caravan that needs a transmission oil change. I bought the van from a reseller. The van had the cooling lines replace , think they burst or something like that. The trans fluid is light brown and does not smell burnt. Called the dealer and they told it it was changed 7000 km ago. Th van has about 300 000 kms on the clock. I am wondering if I should drop the pan and change the fluid. Can anyone advise me please thanks

 

[Jeepman]

I have to be mighty paranoid about a future leak to let RTV pre-cure before bolting it down. Ultra grey doesn't need it.

Yes, but why not use "the right stuff"?

 

[06DGC]

With the gasket, you wouldn't have to wait 15 minutes, not to forget the cleanup of RTV next time.

RTV is the cheaper solution initially (factory watches pennys) but more labor intensive next time around..

I used to think that gaskets were the way to go but I have witnessed leaks on gaskets. I believe that engine and transmission vibrations as well as heat cycles can loosen the bolts that hold the pans on over time. RTV and similar sealants literally lock the bolts in place (much like a semi-flexible thread locker) and silicone-made gaskets are flexible and less susceptible to heat and cooling expansion and contraction which can - over time - loosen bolts. I believe that manufacturers use sealants for these reasons. Also, properly applied sealants provide better seal on slightly damaged or otherwise imperfect mating surfaces. But, yes, I do agree that if you have to remove the pan that a gasket can be infinitely easier.

 

[georgef]

Next time schedule it for July rather than a snow bank in winter - good job otherwise

The snow covered/wet ground helps to keep the dust down and out of your transmission (plus there are no insects around to crawl into your transmission when you aren't looking).

It was 50!!! 😁😎

And for those who don't know it, for Vermont 50°F in March is considered shorts and tee shirt weather.

 

[georgef]

As to the RTV vs gasket debate, I prefer the Mopar silicone RTV MS-GF-41-B (formerly know as Mopar ATF RTV), Mopar part number 5010884AD. You put it on, install and torque the pan in place, then refill with ATF+4, no need to cure first. I've never had a leak using it.

Instruction from the service manual:

Mopar ATF RTV gasket material should be applied in a continuous bead approximately 3 mm (0.120 in.) in diameter. All mounting holes must be circled. For corner sealing, a 3.17 or 6.35 mm (1/8 or 1/4 in.) drop is placed in the center of the gasket contact area. Uncured sealant may be removed with a shop towel. Components should be torqued in place while the sealant is still wet to the touch (within 10 minutes). The usage of a locating dowel is recommended during assembly to prevent smearing material off the location.

 

[GCTruckster]

Wow! I didn’t realize so many people didn’t like gaskets.

 

[Jeepman]

Wow! I didn’t realize so many people didn’t like gaskets.

Yeah, they just wear mosquito nets to deal with the bugs. I think gasket lovers are just sitting back with a smile on their face, being quiet.

Isn't RTV carcinogenic?

Liquid silicone may block blood vessels in parts of the body like the brain, heart, lymph nodes, or lungs, leading to an extremely dangerous situation.

If using RTV under a vehicle and feeling wooshy, take a shot of spirits and call 911. Those instructions may be on the packaging.

 

[Ralphie the Duck]

It was 50!!! 😁😎

50°? That's FREEZING!! (lol, I live in Sacramento)

 

[shuswap]

As to the RTV vs gasket debate, I prefer the Mopar silicone RTV MS-GF-41-B (formerly know as Mopar ATF RTV), Mopar part number 5010884AD. You put it on, install and torque the pan in place, then refill with ATF+4, no need to cure first. I've never had a leak using it.

Instruction from the service manual:

That's exactly what the transmission shop did to the pan on the transmission they inspected for me. I was appalled, told the mech they'd be dealing with the leak the following day. They used the Ultra Black and poured the ATF+4 in minutes later and kicked me out the door. Not a drop leaked over the next 3 years.

 

[Sienile]

Precisely why shops use RTV. Though ultra black wasn't the sure thing that ultra grey is.

 

[06DGC]

That's exactly what the transmission shop did to the pan on the transmission they inspected for me. I was appalled, told the mech they'd be dealing with the leak the following day. They used the Ultra Black and poured the ATF+4 in minutes later and kicked me out the door. Not a drop leaked over the next 3 years.

That's been my experience. Just don't over torque when the RTV isn't cured. Tighten bolts until RTV starts to squeeze out. RTV will act like thread locker and ,with engine heat, cure in no time. I almost always use Ultra Black. Will try Ultra Grey next time as grey is the color I see on many, many OE sealing applications.

 

[Sienile]

I used to use ultra black for everything, but it just doesn't hold up to direct contact with oil the way ultra grey does. I'd get customers returning months after a repair with minor seeping. Never a drop from grey. Put my trans pan on last in January of 2019, and resealed some other spots on the trans a few months later when my flex plate shattered, only sign of fluid is around the drain plug gasket. Most people wouldn't even notice the seepage around the drain plug, but I painted my oil pan a dull silver, so any seepage looks grey instead of a slightly shinier black on black.

 

[Jeepman]

Both grey and black work, black is certainly suited to the task, a la Permatex literature (high oil resistance, OE equivalence)

Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket...

OEM specified. For dealership warranty requirements, Ultra Black® ensures extended drivetrain warranty compliance. Fast-curing formula. Sensor-safe, low odor, noncorrosive. Meets performance specs of OE silicone gaskets. Retains high flexibility, oil resistant properties through use of a...

www.permatex.com

maybe better than grey, which is for high torque applications.

Sooo, the problems are obviously with the finicky application.

Use the right stuff and follow directions:

Ten most common gasketing mistakes

The Ten Most Common Gasketing Mistakes

The Ten Most Common Gasketing Mistakes: Gasket makers and flange sealants are great time savers to have on hand in the shop. And, when compared to a traditional gasket, the material costs for gasket makers are much less. Plus, if you have gasket makers on hand, you don’t lose time waiting for a...

www.permatex.com

 

[LEVY]

Both grey and black work, black is certainly suited to the task, a la Permatex literature, maybe better than grey, which is for high torque applications, sooo the problems are with the finicky application.

I really hate the grey stuff, used once, never to be used again.

 

[Jeepman]

I really hate the grey stuff, used once, never to be used again.

I have enough grey, don't need anymore.

 

[IAfarmer]

I bought a FelPro gasket for my van. No problems at all.

 

[Special Edy]

Grey for a structural oil pan, black for a steel oil pan.

I imagine grey has a higher shear strength, not sure what property about black makes it "more oil resistant".

 

[Jeepman]

Grey for a structural oil pan, black for a steel oil pan.

I imagine grey has a higher shear strength, not sure what property about black makes it "more oil resistant".

Technical Data Sheet - Ultra Black: Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket...

5. Apply a continuous and even bead of silicone to one surface, first tracing the internal areas of the gasket configuration, then all surrounding bolt holes as shown below:
6. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet.
7. Finger tighten flange only until material begins to seep out the sides of the flange.
8. Allow to set for at least two hours and re-torque at least one quarter to one half turn.
9. For best results, allow to cure overnight.

TYPICAL CURING PERFORMANCE Permatex Ultra Black Gasket Maker cures on exposure to moisture in the air. The product dries tack free in two hours and fully cures in 24 hours. Cure times will vary with temperature, humidity and gap.

PERFORMANCE OF CURED MATERIAL
After 7 days at 25C (77F), 50% Relative Humidity
Typical Values
Hardness (Shore A) 30
Elongation, %* 360
Tensile Strength, N/mm2 (psi)** 1.7 (240)
Gap Fill, inch 0.25
*Material will stretch 3.6 times its original length before breaking.
**Amount of force required to break material.

Technical Data Sheet - Ultra Grey: Permatex® Ultra Grey® Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker

5. Apply a continuous and even bead of silicone to one surface, first tracing the internal areas of the gasket configuration, then all surrounding bolt holes as shown below:
6. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet. Secure or tighten to recommended torque specs.
7. Re-torque will not be necessary after the product has cured.

TYPICAL CURING PERFORMANCE Permatex Ultra Gray Gasket Maker cures on exposure to moisture in the air. The product dries tack free in one hour and fully cures in 24 hours. Cure times will vary with temperature, humidity and gap. Longer cure times will apply to applications in low humidity conditions or colder temperatures.

PERFORMANCE OF CURED MATERIAL After 7 days at 25C (77F), 50% Relative Humidity
Typical Values
Hardness (Shore A) >45
Elongation, %* >120
Tensile Strength, N/mm2 (psi) ** >2.6 (>377)
*Material will stretch 1.2 times its original length before breaking.
**Amount of force required to break material