[sstressfl]

Thanks. You're video was great. I'd take it to a trusted mechanic for the service. Like you stated in the video though...you were worried probs could appear after the fluid change.

Why are people so divided on changing the tranny fluid?

I mentioned my concerns with transmission fluid changes in the video... simplistically, years ago, transmissions needed frequent fluid changes to stay healthy. BUT.... if you didnt change the fluid, as the transmission aged it would build up varnish, thick cake would form around seals, BUT it would continue to operate without problem. So then one day after 100k miles of trouble-free driving you get all worked up and decide you want to change the fluid and the filter. Afterward.... after a few miles... your trans starts slipping, shifting bad, downshifting randomly, etc... the new fluid has a way of washing parts. It washes away some of the varnish and gunk that was taking up the worn and gapped out tolerances on the seals. If you had just left it alone, it might have gone another 50-100k A power flush from the dealer has the potential to do the same thing.

So that's the lingering history and hence the lingering fear. Change it often... or don't change it at all. But with new transmissions and synthetic fluids, things last longer, typically. I mean this 2015 6 speed has a 120,00 mile transmission change interval. Thats hilarious!!

Last thought.... it's a known reality that most people change fluid when they hear or feel something wrong with the transmission. The rule of thumb says if the transmission has a problem then MOST LIKELY the fluid change won't help. And often it can make it worse. Yes it was probably gonna fail anyway, but the fluid change helps it fail sooner.

 

[shuswap]

I mentioned my concerns with transmission fluid changes in the video... simplistically, years ago, transmissions needed frequent fluid changes to stay healthy. BUT.... if you didnt change the fluid, as the transmission aged it would build up varnish, thick cake would form around seals, BUT it would continue to operate without problem. So then one day after 100k miles of trouble-free driving you get all worked up and decide you want to change the fluid and the filter. Afterward.... after a few miles... your trans starts slipping, shifting bad, downshifting randomly, etc... the new fluid has a way of washing parts. It washes away some of the varnish and gunk that was taking up the worn and gapped out tolerances on the seals. If you had just left it alone, it might have gone another 50-100k A power flush from the dealer has the potential to do the same thing.

So that's the lingering history and hence the lingering fear. Change it often... or don't change it at all. But with new transmissions and synthetic fluids, things last longer, typically. I mean this 2015 6 speed has a 120,00 mile transmission change interval. Thats hilarious!!

Last thought.... it's a known reality that most people change fluid when they hear or feel something wrong with the transmission. The rule of thumb says if the transmission has a problem then MOST LIKELY the fluid change won't help. And often it can make it worse. Yes it was probably gonna fail anyway, but the fluid change helps it fail sooner.

Which is one reason I only change out 4 litres at a time. The test for me is whether my van will back up on a steep driveway I visit every few weeks without shuddering(sometimes quite violently) With fluid that is less than a year old it is very smooth. last week I had to back up there with a 2,200 trailer attached and it was butter smooth, reinforcing my experience that my last 4 litre fuid change, 3-4 months back, was entirely worthwhile.
Just an add-on: For me, when the trans dies, the van gets junked, I have zero confidence in re-built transmissions.

 

[zexphiii]

The problem with me and "lifetime" fluids, or long fluid change intervals is the competitive minimum service cost marketing battle at play vs. what is ideal as far as maintenance. Yes I agree things have improved greatly and can go longer vs 20 years ago... however things still wear (metal/clutch material), contamination can still happen etc. I found quite a lot of fine material in the pan of my high mileage 41TE that the 62TE is based off of... they both still have metal and clutch material that wear! What do these modern transmissions have magical contactless forcefield based stuff going on??

Is lifetime to longest possible warranty and then we don't care?? Cuz marketing wins!! Lifetime is what? A million miles? There is a point where you must care. I've seen what neglect delivers.

Eliminating dip sticks was probably a functional elimination of a contamination point. I'd rather easily see condition of fluid though as that tells me what's going on aside from looking at CVIs and other data.

This:

• the 8 and 9 speed ZF designed transmissions are a lifetime fill at Chrysler. ZF seems to disagree.

is totally hilarious to me as it sounds like ZF engineering vs. X brand saying "We're lifetime fill too!".

Also I'm not sure about the ZF9 being straight from ZF and untouched by Chrysler group. It's possible. Seems like engineering would settle on the model, then tweak it to their likings or application. Good example would be the ZF8 in all the high performance applications like demon which SRT group did a phenomenal job on.

From what I've seen the ZF9 in Pacifica/Voyager, it doesn't have the most best programming so who knows. They nailed the programming in the HEMI car Z8 though (and hellcat models have extra special programming).

Props to Chrysler group though for running the ZF8 my most fav modern transmissions of them all (not down with dual clutch as far as ownership). Can't comment on ZF9 yet, hope it's just as good.

I deal with all kinds of machines and all kinds of fluids, cars are nothing but machines...ones exposed more to the elements.

 

[sstressfl]

The problem with me and "lifetime" fluids, or long fluid change intervals is the competitive minimum service cost marketing battle at play vs. what is ideal as far as maintenance. Yes I agree things have improved greatly and can go longer... however things still wear (metal/clutch material), contamination can still happen etc. I found quite a lot of fine material in the pan of my high mileage 41TE that the 62TE is based off of... they both still have metal and clutch material that wear!

Eliminating dip sticks was probably a functional elimination of a contamination point. I'd rather easily see condition of fluid though as that tells me what's going on aside from looking at CVIs and other data.

This:

• the 8 and 9 speed ZF designed transmissions are a lifetime fill at Chrysler. ZF seems to disagree.

is totally hilarious to me as it sounds like ZF engineering vs. X brand saying "We're lifetime fill too!".

Also props to Chrysler group for running the ZF8 my most fav modern transmissions of them all (not down with dual clutch as far as ownership). Can't comment on ZF9 yet, hope it's just as good.

My 2015 Caddy 6 speed auto was filled with clutch and metal at 40000 miles. Far worse than my dodge minivan at 100000+ miles.I was pretty impressed with my mopar.

 

[zexphiii]

My 2015 Caddy 6 speed auto was filled with clutch and metal at 40000 miles. Far worse than my dodge minivan at 100000+ miles.I was pretty impressed with my mopar.

Ouch :-/, not ideal. I'm paranoid about most new automotive things unless it's been around and proven.

 

[Jeepman]

Transmission Filters:
Many transmissions have a lifetime filter. To get at the filter, the transmission has to be torn apart. They are referred to as as "not a scheduled maintenance item". Honda, Subaru, for examples. Transmission filters are also referred to as "strainers" which better fits their filtering efficiency.
This says it best:

Transmission filters, by and large, are pretty 'loose' and are only there to keep things big enough to damage the pump, from getting into the pump. It is sort of analogous to replacing the oil pickup screen in an engine or the fuel pump strainer in a fuel system. If either one is clogging up, it's because there's something in there that shouldn't be in there, not 'maintenance'. I suppose the distinction between 'extending the life of a failing part' and 'maintenance' is ultimately a line in the sand, though. Transmission filters won't clog up until something is seriously wrong with the trans. At that point, replacing the filter doesn't really address the problem, it's more of a punt.

Conclusion: No combustion byproducts to worry about. Leave alone or change the filter if it's convenient. Consider an inline filter if you want, like those made by Magnefine.

Transmission base oil:
ATF is made up of base oil and additives, say 15% additives, could be more, maybe less. The base oil is synthetic, or a synthetic blend. Base oils don't wear out.
This says it best:

“A commonly misunderstood fact is that engine oils do not wear out. The oil becomes dirty and the additives get depleted, but the oil is still an effective lubricant.” he continued.
“Used engine oil can now be collected, filtered, de-watered, re-refined and re-hydrogenated. The end result is a base oil that has the same performance characteristics as base oil derived from crude oil.”

Transmission base oil operates in a much cleaner, basically sealed, environment.
Conclusion: Base oils don't need to be replaced due to wearing out.

Additive Package:
Your ATF+4 contains base oil and an additive package meeting the Chrysler design specs, including a component made by Lubrizol. The design intent was for a 100,000 mile to lifetime fluid.

Chrysler automatic transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4

Chrysler automatic transmission fluids: 7176, ATF+3, ATF+4 ATF+4® GM Frazier wrote: Group I base oils can have a mix of different hydrocarbon chains, with relatively little uniformity; these oils are the least refined. They are usually not used for autos. Group II are the most common base...

www.allpar.com

The additive package is what takes the beating, especially during trailer towing and Police/Taxi use. Hence the severe service schedule designation and the need for transmission fluid changes.
Included in the additive package are friction modifiers. More on friction modifiers:

The purpose of a friction modifier varies based on the application. In a combustion engine, the goal is to lower the amount of friction, thereby gaining fuel economy. In clutches, automatic transmissions and industrial applications, the aim is not simply to control friction in order to maximize efficiency but to reduce slippage.

For "normal service", the 2001 to 2007 Owner's Manuals did not require any transmission service. That's saying the friction modifiers will hang in there for the duration. That changed in 2008 for the six speed transmissions. Who knows why?
The even newer 8 and 9 speed transmissions are a ZF design and require no service normally, using a ZF compatible fluid.
Conclusion: Additives, including the friction modifiers, can wear out .... eventually. But when? Educate yourself, follow Manufacturer's maintenance schedules, don't overdo, or overdue, transmission fluid changes. Be reasonable. A poor transmission fluid change, exchange, or flush may be more detrimental than beneficial. Chemicals, used for flushing, are warned about by Chrysler. Again, educate yourself.

 

[TCNightfall]

I intended to change the fluid at 70k. I reminded myself to do it at 80k. Before I knew it, the van was at 100k. Yikes. With heavy towing, the transmission fluid should be changed at 60k miles. With normal operation I believe the recommendation is 120k. It needed to be changed. But sometimes when you neglect your transmission, it gets gunky inside. And when you change the fluid, it washes away the gunk and then suddenly, you have shifting problems. I wasn't sure this was going to work. But I tried it anyway.

Thanks for all your videos, especially the transmission cooler install vid. How is it holding up? I’m about to install one myself soon.