I have about 25k on the Outpost APTs and I love them. The only thing, and it's really not important, is the ~2 mpg drop from highway oriented (****ty) all seasons. I would absolutely get them again.

 

I have about 25k on the Outpost APTs and I love them. The only thing, and it's really not important, is the ~2 mpg drop from highway oriented (****ty) all seasons. I would absolutely get them again.

Thats good to know, thank you for the input. the prices was absolutely right and from what I know with the other tires that Nokian makes they have never disappointed me. Everyone mentioned noise being a small issue but so far I think they are ever so slightly louder than my All Seasons and about the same as the Michelin X-ICE. Cant wait to drive on deep snow soon!

 

Some winter tires are ice tires (more flexible tread, more sipes/grip) and some are snow tires (more open tread blocks, more grab).
New tires and half worn tires can be like night and day.
Ratings on tirerack.com are based on extended use and can be helpful in selecting tires for the long haul.
SUV rated tires are a little stiffer with an extra tread ply, most likely. Should be good for the vans.

 

I'd just like to point out (for those that aren't aware) that "ice" tires are as much about the composition of the rubber as it is about the tread pattern. Perhaps more.

I run "ice" rated tires on the wife's 2014 T&C and above roughly 5-10C the wear just accelerates rapidly. They're on dedicated "steelies".

It's because the rubber composition is optimized for flexibility in sub zero temps and is too "soft" to give good wear characteristics in warmer temps. You want them more flexible in cold temps so the siping can do it's job and "grip" the road surface. You can run them in warmer temps and they will perform adequately, they'll just wear faster.

Of course, a more aggressive tread pattern with lots of siping is going to also increase performance on slippery surfaces.

Which tire works best for you is very dependent on your local weather conditions. If that means "all terrains" all year 'round: go for it!

 

This agrees mostly with what I've learned over the years. A couple things I've learned. Soft compound tires do have a greater slip angle than harder compounds. Basically that means the tire isn't going exactly the direction the wheels are pointing. This generates more heat in the tire which isn't a problem in cold weather but if it gets hot you'll find the tires can get pretty squirmy. When I raced a BMW in the SCCA the people with more money ran very soft tires - Hoosier Dirt Stockers mostly- in rain races. They ate my lunch in turns in the wet. If the rain stopped mid race they had to find any water on the track to keep from destroying their tires. Man it felt good to blow past them then.

Another thing I was told is any kind of mud tire is designed to throw mud out of the tread. Mud against mud is very slick. Snow tires are designed to trap snow in the tread because snow sticks to snow.

 

This entirely depends on the tire itself.

My Grabber ATX's for instance were wonderful in the winter while being an excellent all around tire. BFG KO2's however are complete **** in winter.

Same goes for A/S tires. Altimax RT43s for instance are quite good in winter use, meanwhile Destination LE2s are downright dangerous on anything but dry pavement.

My go to now are All Weather tires like my Toyo Celsius II on my Pacifica.

 

Here's a positive report on the Nokian Outpost AT tire

Review: Nokian Outpost AT All-Terrain Tires | TractionLife

A premium all-weather, all-terrain tire for SUVs, crossovers and light trucks, we put the Nokian Outpost AT tire to the test.

tractionlife.com

 

Here's a positive report on the Nokian Outpost AT tire

Review: Nokian Outpost AT All-Terrain Tires | TractionLife

A premium all-weather, all-terrain tire for SUVs, crossovers and light trucks, we put the Nokian Outpost AT tire to the test.

tractionlife.com

There is some confusion the AT is full hardcore off road tire the APT is all purpose tire or designed for mixed road and some back road use maybe mild offroad with sidewall protection.

So far my initial impressions and the quality of the tires and the softness of the rubber I think these are wicked deal at 100$/pop. now Amazon has hiked the prices around 200-225 and at that point if I am to spend 1000$ on tires I may consider a lot of other brands. My total out the door delivered with use of a few points I had was 349$.

 

@YotoWerks, where were your Nokians made? Looks like most of their stock prior to 2023 was made in Russia, which would explain why they were being sold cheap as they exited their Russian factories... (hot potato, bad politics, no warranty replacements)

They apparently started producing in Dayton Ohio in 2023 and are expanding into 2024. Of course the prices of American made tires is gonna be more like the normal rate of $200 per tire.

 

Mine were made in russia, likely old stock held here in the US that was let go on the cheap. The price was main contributor for me as I did not want to dump 1000$ on tires on a van that can be totaled by the insurance company if it ever got minor accidental damage.

 

From

Production / Nokian Tyres

In addition to our factory in Romania, we manufacture car tires at our factories in Nokia and Dayton, USA. In recent years, we have increased capacity at our factories in Finland and the United States. In 2027, our own production capacity will exceed 15 million tires. We complement our own...

www.nokiantyres.com

Nokian Tyres manufactures passenger car tires in its factories in Nokia, Finland and in Dayton, US. In 2023, we broke ground for a factory in Oradea, Romania. The commercial production is scheduled to start in Romania in 2025.

Yesteryear:

Are Nokian tires made in Russia?
Roughly 80 percent of Nokian's passenger car tires were manufactured in Russia. And the country accounted for 20 percent of its sales.

It will say on the sidewalls where they are made.

 

It will say on the sidewalls where they are made.

Now I'm really curious but it seems almost certain these are Russian production. I have always been curious about Nokians from a distance and thought they were great tires, but moving their primary production to Russia was an unfortunate move for them. That was a good reason for a "blowout" sale price.

I will note that as a guitarist, I have a whole bunch of old tube amps powered by vacuum tubes and maybe 25% of the tubes in my amps are Russian. These quickly disappeared from the market in 2022.

On tires, I have Michelin Defender LTX M/S's on my 2017 GC and would rave about these tires but Michelin has discontinued the 225/65x17 size (what a bummer, more so if I need a warranty replacement tire).

 

As an owner of CTC of 2 years almost, I live on dirt roads, and I drive a lot on dirt roads to do daily duties so my mix of driving on crap roads and good smooth roads is about 70/30.

Shortly after I got the van I got me some winter tires on steel wheels, Michelin X Ice and I was disappointed of their performance all together. After years of using Blizzaks these were a massive let down. They felt more like all season tires than a dedicated winter one.

Fast forward Nokian Outpost APT released a tire about 2 years ago for owners of SUVs and Crossovers with light offroad capabilities, and compound that works very well in the snow and Ice.
I got a set off amazon for 97$/tire and snagged some DGC wheels, some new TPMS sensors and bam for about 500$ I got a very sweet combo. Tried it today on first snow and Iced roads and I was shocked at the overall performance.

1st Grip on dirt roads is unreal, I used to spin my tires trying to take off on mud covered roads....not any more.
2nd ICE grip is identical to what a Blizzak tire did in the past.
3rd Noise is actually about the same as the all seasons, no humming.
4th. Comfort, I did not expect them to ride this nice but they are actually very pleasant tires, easily swallowing most road imperfections with reduced chassis impacts. Cant say that for the old all seasons.
5th Finally the looks which I cant get over. Looks absolutely perfect in my eyes.

Enough talk here are some pictures.

View attachment 75050

View attachment 75054


View attachment 75052

Tires look good, interested to see how they do over time.

By CTC do you mean Cargo Trailer Camper.

 

I'd guess that's Chrysler Town and Country....

 

Rumor has it that the vodka content in the Russian polyester cords is a bit high making the tires wobbly. Nylon cords, not so much. Just a tip.

 

CTC = Canadian Tire Corporation, Canada's favorite tire store.

 

Ugh, "Crappy" tire.....necessary evil sometimes though.....

 

UPDATE: Tires have been installed on the van for a few days now, I have put about 450mi on them, noise wise there is a little bit but its not the annoying humm you hear from lifted jeeps on knobby tires its just a road/tire noise perhaps 10% louder than before but it blends in with the wind noise you hear.

Balance wise, there were no Yellow or Red dots on the tires so the shop just threw them on there and used some not a lot of weights to get them to balance, they ride great and appear to be softer than my all seasons meaning they absorb potholes smoother than the other tires I had.

Seems my fuel economy has gone down some perhaps 1-2mpg but it also got cold right when I installed them so I have a lot more idle time on remote start so that could be it. The tires are wider 235 vs 225 so that contributes some as well.

The biggest improvement that I see is traction on dirt or back roads that I live on. When its wet these roads get muddy and slick and with the new tires I have 100% traction and I am able to accelerate without any drama which is something I could not do with the old Michellins.

The big test will be snow and Ice and I cant wait to try them to see if they really can be year round tire for me.

 

Amazon.com: Nokian Outpost APT 235/65R17 104H BSW : Automotive

Buy Nokian Outpost APT 235/65R17 104H BSW: Performance - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

These are the tires I got if anyone is interested in getting some while they are at this price $97.

 

Cambodia Tire Corporation

 

Which is it? Snow in the deep snow tire grooves creates shear traction via snow against snow or the deep grooves should expel snow and slush the soonest?

Nokian:

Research shows that slush is one of the most dangerous and feared elements of winter.
The Alpine Sense Grip 2.0 consists of new, V-shaped tread pattern, 3D siping and Alpine Grip 2.0 compound. The tread design effectively removes snow and slush from between the tire and the road

Nokian Tyres Snowproof is born for winter / Nokian Tyres

The new Nokian Tyres Snowproof family is especially developed for Central European drivers ensuring ...

www.nokiantyres.com

Continental:

The snow gets pressed into the wider and deeper tread grooves and by this it utilizes the effect of shear forces on snow for additional grip. The wider grooves can also absorb more slush contrary to summer tires and ensure more contact to the road surface.

https://www.continental-tires.com/products/b2c/tire-knowledge/tread-on-winter-tires/#:~:text=Sipes%2C%20very%20thin%20slots%20cut,and%20generally%20create%20more%20traction

.

Then again, a tire that's half worn isn't that good at anything except dry braking as it gets harder.

CR:

CR testing shows that tires can lose their winter grip at half-tread depth.
Tread depth is essential to disperse rainwater and slush, and claw at snow. As tires wear, this ability to hold the road confidently fades.

In real cold temperatures I can see snow on snow giving some grip (you can hear it), but on salted, slushy roads, which is most often the situation, give me the claw.

Make Sure Your Tires Have Enough Tread for a Snowy Winter - Consumer Reports

Make sure your tires have enough tread for a snowy winter. All-season tires begin losing traction in wet and wintry weather long before they appear worn out.

www.consumerreports.org

Some mud tire tread blocks are actually beveled to extract the mud. Mud on mud doesn't do the job.

 

I grew in VA just outside of DC. In heavy snows I would volunteer to drive Drs and nurses back and forth to hospitals in my 90's Bronco. A recent transplant from Vermont showed up to volunteer with his old station wagon. He couldn't be convinced that conditions were different where roads were heavily salted and roads melted snow at the bottom resulting in a non connected slushy mess. I bet going home he learned the difference.

 

Coincidentally this was posted a couple days ago. I know it's not the exact tire, but still an interesting comparison.

 

I attempted to buy some Nokian tires a little over a year ago in 245/75R16 for my lifted 02 T&C AWD. After ordering, I was notified they were unavailable. I didn't think much of it at the time, as my 2nd choice Firestones were out of stock. Ended up with Pirelli Scorpion AT+ for the Nokian price for all my trouble ordering. They have not slipped on us in any situation on or off road yet.
DiscountTireDirect offers 10% off to verified veterans on top of sale prices and rebates. I've not been able to do better than that anywhere, which is why I stuck it out with them.

 

I went from Hankooks with a semi-knobby all-season tread to Discount house brand tires Falkens? with no knobby, but lots of sipes. the Hankooks were better in the snow. I have a 4wd truck for when the snow is deep.

 

Snow tires versus ice tires, there's a difference. Snow tires grab, ice tires grip. When half worn they pretty much equal each other.

 

I was raving about the Nokian Outpost APT recently and I still appreciate many things about them BUT a tire with a 65k mileage warranty shouldn't be well under 40% in under 29k miles. I went to rotate them the third time and found out that the rears are in need of replacement before it snows. Of course I got them online so the warranty will be difficult to use and if they're going to wear like this do I really want another set?

 

I was raving about the Nokian Outpost APT recently and I still appreciate many things about them BUT a tire with a 65k mileage warranty shouldn't be well under 40% in under 29k miles. I went to rotate them the third time and found out that the rears are in need of replacement before it snows. Of course I got them online so the warranty will be difficult to use and if they're going to wear like this do I really want another set?

Too much gravity?

They say they are suitable for EV use?

Nokian Tyres Outpost APT - Extend your adventures / Nokian Tyres

Nokian Tyres Outpost™ APT is an all-purpose-terrain tire for crossovers, sport utility vehicles and small light trucks.

www.nokiantires.com

Warranty Conditions: Nokian Tyres Limited Warranty / Nokian Tires

the original usable and remaining tread reaches a depth of 2/32” or less, as evidenced by the built-in wear indicators in the tread grooves or a tire tread depth tool; or ii) five (5) years from the date of retail purchase

Nokian Tyres Outpost APT: 65,000 mile

1 Although Nokian Tyres offers treadwear warranty coverage for the stated mileage on the terms and conditions described herein, treadwear may vary based on a variety of factors, including maintenance, driving habits, and road conditions.
2 See Exceptions to Warranty Coverage in “Warranty Coverage for Workmanship and Material”
3 See Owner Obligations in “Warranty Coverage for Workmanship and Material”

Keep in mind that as the tread wears, it becomes stiffer and wears longer, especially so for a winter tire. Dry braking improves, wet braking is worse. At 4/32", tread wear slows down considerably, so does safety.

Looking at the aggressiveness of this tire I wouldn't expect 65,000 miles/100,000 km on my Van. What are "reviews" saying about tread life?

Caveat:

Here’s where the math really doesn’t add up: The credit can be applied to a manufacturer’s suggested retail price for a new tire or to a dealer’s price. And that price is often high relative to the frequent discounts offered by many retailers. In fact, you may be able to buy new, discounted tires for less than the price of warranty replacements.

 

Two of them that spent 20k up front are passing the 40% wear line now but the 2 that spent 20k on the back are great, they're at 30k now and this was the third rotation. Unfortunately it looks like Nokian needs to see receipts from rotations every 5k miles, that's not happening. I'll probably just get 2 new ones from a local tire shop that has them surprisingly inexpensive because the two will suck in the snow that's bound to happen here soon.