[itsallgood]

Model: 01 DGC EX
Mileage: 182K+
Maintenance: Dealer and DIY

So, here’s the deal. As some of you know, we started having a shudder with light throttle between 45 to 55 mph for the past few months. Dealer diagnosed it as the Torque Converter is going. There is no check engine light. Trans. shifts smooth through all gears. The only maintenance done in the history of the trans. is fluid and filter changes between 30K to 40K. We did have one issue with the filter being restricted, that caused an awful noise around 169K, back in Sep. 2014. (Because the filter had over 130K miles on it, which the dealer never recommend changing, since it was being flushed every 30K to 40K)

Dealer wants:

$1850 for new torque converter and pump (Warranty 12 months) (My first choice)
$3700 for re-manufactured trans. installed (Warranty 100K/3 yrs.) - $1850 difference.

We hope to keep our van for another 100K. Most of the maintenance I can do my self and have already replace a lot of smaller things as preventive maintenance. The only issues is the shudder and some rusted outer door panels. (Which I plan on fixing in the future) Outside of that, she runs great and the inside look great as well.

So here are my Questions:

1) When they drop the pan and see nothing out of the ordinary, would replacing just the torque convert and pump get us another 100K with current trans?

2) Would it be better to get the re-manufactured in the long run? (Money is kinda tight)

3) How long can we drive with this issue and will it damage the rest of the trans.?

Would love to hear from those that have been through this and what your experience was.

*I’m going to have the oil tested to see the health of the engine very soon too.

Thanks

 

[06DGC]

Model: 01 DGC EX
Mileage: 182K+
Maintenance: Dealer and DIY

So, here’s the deal. As some of you know, we started having a shudder with light throttle between 45 to 55 mph for the past few months. Dealer diagnosed it as the Torque Converter is going. There is no check engine light. Trans. shifts smooth through all gears. The only maintenance done in the history of the trans. is fluid and filter changes between 30K to 40K. We did have one issue with the filter being restricted, that caused an awful noise around 169K, back in Sep. 2014. (Because the filter had over 130K miles on it, which the dealer never recommend changing, since it was being flushed every 30K to 40K)

Dealer wants:

$1850 for new torque converter and pump (Warranty 12 months) (My first choice)
$3700 for re-manufactured trans. installed (Warranty 100K/3 yrs.) - $1850 difference.

We hope to keep our van for another 100K. Most of the maintenance I can do my self and have already replace a lot of smaller things as preventive maintenance. The only issues is the shudder and some rusted outer door panels. (Which I plan on fixing in the future) Outside of that, she runs great and the inside look great as well.

So here are my Questions:

1) When they drop the pan and see nothing out of the ordinary, would replacing just the torque convert and pump get us another 100K with current trans?

2) Would it be better to get the re-manufactured in the long run? (Money is kinda tight)

3) How long can we drive with this issue and will it damage the rest of the trans.?

Would love to hear from those that have been through this and what your experience was.

*I’m going to have the oil tested to see the health of the engine very soon too.

Thanks

I had my torque converter replaced about 6 months ago. For a couple of years, I suffered intermittent shuddering. Sometimes a fluid change would cure it for a while, a couple of times I used Lubeguard products and that seemed to help for a bit. Against my better judgement, I used Lucas Transmission fix and that got me a couple months of shudder free driving but the shuddering came back with a vengeance. The ONLY thing that cured the shuddering was replacing the TC. My total bill was ~ $1100.00 CAD and that included the replacement of the heater return hose assembly that the tech noticed was leaking. The heater hose/pipe assembly was something like $150.00 (Mopar part). The tech said my pump was fine so they just installed the TC and refilled the system with new ATF. Van has been running beautifully since the TC replacement. I think that you should shop around and you can likely get a much better price. I don't think they can necessarily tell if the pump is bad until they drop the transmission and pull the TC. I had had line pressure tests done earlier and they were within spec.

I don't think that anyone can give you definitive answers to any of your three questions. Although, I wouldn't recommend letting the shuddering go on for extended periods of time. I struggled with the same questions as you, but ultimately decided to go the TC replacement route as I felt that was the issue - even though it was more like an uneducated guess/hunch. Another shop said valve body.

Opinions may vary and there are many more members here that know a lot more than I do about this stuff.

 

[itsallgood]

I had my torque converter replaced about 6 months ago. For a couple of years, I suffered intermittent shuddering. Sometimes a fluid change would cure it for a while, a couple of times I used Lubeguard products and that seemed to help for a bit. Against my better judgement, I used Lucas Transmission fix and that got me a couple months of shudder free driving but the shuddering came back with a vengeance. The ONLY thing that cured the shuddering was replacing the TC. My total bill was ~ $1100.00 CAD and that included the replacement of the heater return hose assembly that the tech noticed was leaking. The heater hose/pipe assembly was something like $150.00 (Mopar part). The tech said my pump was fine so they just installed the TC and refilled the system with new ATF. Van has been running beautifully since the TC replacement. I think that you should shop around and you can likely get a much better price. I don't think they can necessarily tell if the pump is bad until they drop the transmission and pull the TC. I had had line pressure tests done earlier and they were within spec.

I don't think that anyone can give you definitive answers to any of your three questions. Although, I wouldn't recommend letting the shuddering go on for extended periods of time. I struggled with the same questions as you, but ultimately decided to go the TC replacement route as I felt that was the issue - even though it was more like an uneducated guess/hunch. Another shop said valve body.

Opinions may vary and there are many more members here that know a lot more than I do about this stuff.

Thanks for the quick response and very helpful info. What shop did the repair for you? I'm having a hard time finding an independent shop out side of Chicago, IL. I was looking at Aamco in Aurora, IL. since they specialize in transmissions. They do have an "A" rating with the BBB and good reviews. (Concerned about them putting in the wrong fluid though.)

 

[06DGC]

Thanks for the quick response and very helpful info. What shop did the repair for you? I'm having a hard time finding an independent shop out side of Chicago, IL. I was looking at Aamco in Aurora, IL. since they specialize in transmissions. They do have an "A" rating with the BBB and good reviews. (Concerned about them putting in the wrong fluid though.)

No problem. I went with the recommendation of an independent shop by my neighbour who is a mechanic. He highly recommended the outfit, Casey's Custom Auto and Bike (Oak Bay, NB, Canada), and said "That guy can fix anything". Casey had done some transmission work for him on his Dodge plow trucks. I'm glad I went with Casey as I suspect that the local transmissions shops would have been more expensive. Despite the fact that Casey couldn't say with 100% certainty that the TC was the problem, he said he'd done the same repair on Caravan's with the precise symptoms. That was good enough for me.

 

[172577]

Sorry to hear about your TC issue. You are in the same spot I was in back in November, 2015. I had a '99 Plymouth GV with 225,000 miles and needed some front end work, tires soon, etc... I kept it spotless and it was a great ride. However, the value of the vehicle and the miles it had, caused me to let it go and buy another. I found a '07 Chrysler TC with 70,000 miles, one owner, (a pilot who kept flawless records), for $ 4,500. I also am a DIY and use the dealer for oddball stuff. I would only suggest, if it is feasible, to consider looking for another vehicle that doesn't have 15 years and 180,000 miles and needs almost $ 2,000 worth of work. Just a suggestion. I also keep my cars a long time, currently have an '04 Dodge GC and the '07. I wish you the best whatever way you choose to go.
Bob

Bob

 

[itsallgood]

Sorry to hear about your TC issue. You are in the same spot I was in back in November, 2015. I had a '99 Plymouth GV with 225,000 miles and needed some front end work, tires soon, etc... I kept it spotless and it was a great ride. However, the value of the vehicle and the miles it had, caused me to let it go and buy another. I found a '07 Chrysler TC with 70,000 miles, one owner, (a pilot who kept flawless records), for $ 4,500. I also am a DIY and use the dealer for oddball stuff. I would only suggest, if it is feasible, to consider looking for another vehicle that doesn't have 15 years and 180,000 miles and needs almost $ 2,000 worth of work. Just a suggestion. I also keep my cars a long time, currently have an '04 Dodge GC and the '07. I wish you the best whatever way you choose to go.
Bob

Bob

Thanks for your advice. Since our minivan is all caught up in maintenance and I've done a lot of repairs myself, it makes since financially to keep it. (If the engine is healthy) Especially since this is the first major repair since ownership. Check out this link and at the bottom of the page is a Repair or Replace Calculator.

http://tricitytransmission.com/repair-or-replace-calculator

 

[172577]

Thanks for the link with the sell/keep questions, those are great questions and really make you think about selling or repairing. It sounds like you have done your homework.
I wish you well and many more miles on your van!
Bob

 

[dolemite44149]

I may be having the same issue. The only time the van is "shuttering" is when it is just started. Once I get moving, no issues.

Are you all only receiving the shuttering when in motion?

Check out this video my wife took (not the greatest quality) but you'll get the gist. This has happened only once and has never repeated (3 weeks now). Any ideas?

goo.gl/1eV7QP

Thank you in advance, Greg

 

[443k3.3]

www.car-part.com

Has low mile used 40k on it 700ish, some remans 1200 to 1700. Depending on whers you are. eBay also option.
Almost as much work to change pump and tc as it is just to change.

 

[atoman]

If you plan on changing the whole trans, no measurable harm is going to be done by driving it until TCC goes...
While it's not unheard of getting close to 300Kmi out of a trans with proper maintenance, personally I wouldn't count on it (esp. on a unit that went 120Kmi without the recommended 60K service interval).

If nothing else, check over the van and perhaps wait for the oil test to come back before you do ahead with the trans or TC.

 

[imickey503]

Wait. Is there any chance of catastrophic failure if you don't change the Torque convertor?

 

[atoman]

Wait. Is there any chance of catastrophic failure if you don't change the Torque convertor?

There's always a chance, but it's not significantly greater if the clutch is wearing thin...
If TC is leaking (not the case being discussed here) that would be worse, because if it splits you'll lose all gears. TCC not locking up will not leave you stranded.
If the friction material from TCC blocks up the filter, you'll notice sluggish engagement and /or noise while the trans is cold and ATF is slightly more viscous...

 

[itsallgood]

If you plan on changing the whole trans, no measurable harm is going to be done by driving it until TCC goes...
While it's not unheard of getting close to 300Kmi out of a trans with proper maintenance, personally I wouldn't count on it (esp. on a unit that went 120Kmi without the recommended 60K service interval).

If nothing else, check over the van and perhaps wait for the oil test to come back before you do ahead with the trans or TC.

Actually, all the fluid was changed every 30K, by flushing the system. The issue with the filter restriction, was I believe the first time it was replaced. I'm going to drop the pan to see how the fluid, pan, magnet and filter looks this week. I'm hoping the valve body bolts are lose and just need tightening, that's causing the issue.

 

[itsallgood]

Quick up date. Got a 2nd opinion on a price from Aamco for the TC and pump. They said they wouldn't just change these two parts, but would rebuild the entire trans for $2200 with a (12 month warranty). Still trying to decide, but If we go the route of a re-manufactured trans. It would seem the dealer has a better deal, even if more then $1800 more. At least we would get a 3 yrs/100K warranty, as opposed to only 1yrs warranty Aamco is giving.

 

[atoman]

Find a good independent shop, aamco is famous (at least around here) for promising a lot and doing very little. At the very least be sure you get a list of what their "rebuild" procedure includes in writing (which they almost certainly won't give you)...
If you're having problems locating a decent shop, reverse engineer the process - find a good rebuilder (such as Jasper) and contact them to see if they'll give you a list of shops in your area. Be sure to do your homework on the list of recommended shops.

Loose valve body bolts affecting only TCC is a new one to me, but checking can't hurt.
Did you get the CVI values from any of the shops you talked to, by chance?

 

[itsallgood]

Did you get the CVI values from any of the shops you talked to, by chance?

Not even sure what a CVI Values are. So, I would say no. The dealer just did a test drive. (We paid $130 for the diagnoses, which will go towards the repair, if we have them to do it.) I was going to have Aamco give the free inspection, but they want us to leave our van. (Which I'm not going to do.) I even asked them for an appointment time, and they don't do that. So, Aamco is out of the question.

 

[atoman]

CVI = Clutch Volume Index, it is a measure of time delay between control unit energizing the solenoid and the clutch engaging (change in input/output speed/ratio) which is calculated internally by TCM to compensate for wear.
It's not a guarantee, but is usually a decent measurement of how worn the friction surfaces are (though it would not account for any hydraulic problems, if any exist)...

 

[itsallgood]

CVI = Clutch Volume Index, it is a measure of time delay between control unit energizing the solenoid and the clutch engaging (change in input/output speed/ratio) which is calculated internally by TCM to compensate for wear.
It's not a guarantee, but is usually a decent measurement of how worn the friction surfaces are (though it would not account for any hydraulic problems, if any exist)...

i just learned something, Thanks. I'll make sure to ask about that.

 

[itsallgood]

I was thinking, my current "Bluedriver" scanner doesn't have TCM capibility. Would this scanner work in scanning the transmission's CVI?

http://www.amazon.com/Original-Laun...tic/dp/B00GU4E15A/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1453862302&sr=8-7&keywords=tcm+scanner

 

[cvguy]

I'm sure that Creader would read the TCM, but you can spend quite a bit less on this one, which will do that as well.

http://www.amazon.com/Launch-Creade...er/dp/B00EN7JOQC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1453865542&sr=8-1&keywords=creader+vii+

I don't know how many "extras" the more expensive one has, but I can tell you for certain the VII+ reads TCM codes and CVIs like a champ. I bought one of these a couple years ago when searching for my daughter's van. A very nice tool for that purpose, plus it has similar functionality for every vehicle in your family.

JMO, but I'd run from any shop that tells you to replace the tranny based on a test drive alone. Very unprofessional, by just doing what's easiest (and most profitable) for them. It's a virtual certainty that more than a few trannys get replaced by outfits like this one, in situations where a much simpler and less expensive resolution was available.

Have you investigated pulling a complete unit from a yard? You would need to find out if any shops (or indy mechanics) in your area would install one of those, and of course how much they would charge to do that job. It would likely be much less than the estimates you have so far, but almost certainly would come with no warranty.

Personally, I'd probably drive it for at least a while longer, and see what the future holds. However, that strategy my not be appropriate for your situation.