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The Odyssey - Revenge of the Rust. 4 codes, and a vacation.

4.2K views 9 replies 9 participants last post by  vf48wrx  
#1 ·
Where do I begin.. 1997/98 Town & Country 3.8L

We were driving to California from Kansas to visit family, and catch some along the way. When we hit El Paso, TX we developed a pretty bad coolant leak and despite my better judgement but lacking a suitable amount of knowledge with regard to my specific vehicle to thwart said bad ideas I tossed some barsleak in to hopefully fix the leaks that I was experiencing. The leaks didn't get plugged, so I ended up spending 4 days in El Paso having a couple lines replaced that go from the rear of the engine to the rear AC. Being that it has 186,xxx miles and as we've only had it for a little more than a year I'm not sure what's been done and what hasn't I asked the mechanic if there was anything else that could be done while he had the intake manifold off (which was required to replace the lines behind the engine). I ended up having him flush the cooling system, replace the thermostat, replace the spark plugs (the rear ones were still OEM! :Wow1: ), and replace the valve cover gaskets (because he was there, and the front one had a bit of old engine grease/oil/ish around it).

We departed El Paso - The van sounded different, I was thinking something to do with the muffler, didn't think much about it as I use to run a straight exhaust with my 1999 Sunfire that I had growing up. I laughed at it, called it a rally van, revved it a few times, remarked to the unimpressed wife, and headed for Phoenix, stopped for the night and the next morning I was driving around and it kind of shifted a little hard into second, didn't think much of it, moved on to Los Angeles. No sooner did I cross the state line into California the service light came on. I figured it probably had something to do with an O2 sensor but thought it probably a good idea to stop somewhere and have the code read. Drove into the outskirts of southern CA, stopped at an Autozone and apparently CA is the only state where they won't read your code. So, I picked up some messy muffler wrap and reluctantly paid $129 for a reader :angrya: and found out that there were 2 codes P0731, P0715. It was at this point I couldn't get it to shift past 2nd gear (which I understand now as 'failsafe mode'). It appeared to be related to a cooling issue. If we let it sit for awhile and cool off, it would shift past 2nd once, if it dropped down to second it wouldn't up-shift. We stopped, I applied the muffler wrap using a curb, and the jack (parking lot adventures! :thumb: ) let it dry and it was at this point I had about a half a tank of fuel but not wanting to waste more time limping it to a station (as there wasn't one close enough to see), filling up, cooling back off, etc.. We the limped the van to an on-ramp where it would no longer shift into 3rd. Let it sit for 25 minutes or so and then decidedly 'drove it like we stole it' to Fresno with the heater on high the entire way. :usa:


I watched the mile signs and managed to close the 60 mile gap between the distance and the computers estimated DTE. I averaged 29mpg and got there with the fuel light on and about 20 miles to spare. :ThumbsUp:

I tested the codes again and there was a 3rd (P0700 or some such random transmission code). I flushed the radiator twice and then took it to a local shop around here and they replaced the input and output shaft sensors, and the temp sensor as I asked them to look at it (and they said that it was reading a little wonky) but the thing that really grabbed my attention with regard to the temp sensor was that the gauge never went beyond a stoic middle ground despite an obvious heat issue affecting the transmission.

Anyway, I thought it a little odd that 2 sensors would go out at the same time and am hoping that the situation isn't indicative of the early stages of a larger issue but I digress.. With the sensor codes resolved and the P0700 gone I went to a muffler shop to address the issue of the wrapped up 6" split and had them replace the muffler with a nice high flow and the resonator was inspected and had a few small splits between the pipe and the resonator part and they said that they could weld but I opted to have them just replace it. We drove it around yesterday and now that I have a tester that I can view the live engine data I'm able to see the actual temperature number instead of taking a guess at a gauge with no actual data other than 'you're fine' and 'explosion imminent'.

The coolant reached a high of 243. I popped the hood and it was hot hot hot. The hose from the thermostat was hard, and there was a slight hissing and popping leak from where the top hose connects to the radiator. I turned on the heater and got it cooled back down all the while the dash gauge NEVER got beyond half way - like a suicidal butler that knows it would be an inconvenience to you to have to stop and get him a malaria shot and would rather die than tell you he needs medical assistance. :eek:

So I'm thinking that the barsleak probably clogged the radiator and never even got to the lines behind the engine. So sad.. I contacted a shop today to replace the radiator and they said that all of the aftermarket radiators available for this van are junk and don't last 6 months and to try to track down an original from a junkyard or online which isn't a huge problem for me, but disappointing to find out that the aftermarket is so sketchy with regard to radiators.

Coming home today I had another code P0401 - related to the EGR and the muffler job. I still have to contact the shop that did the work, I don't see that as a large issue, probably something that just needs a little adjustment or additional tubing or something.

SO.. With that said, we're now 3 weeks after the original issue with the barsleak, and I'm wondering if maybe I truly have a clogged radiator because I can squeeze the top hose with the radiator cap off and the coolant rises in the filler neck so I know it's flowing but why would it be super hard when it gets hot? Could the thermostat be in backwards? Is that even possible?!?

We were hoping to start heading back tomorrow evening but there's no way I'm doing that with issues pending.

What do you guys think the issue is? Is it likely that I crapped up the radiator, is the word about aftermarket radiators true? Could the issue be something else?

Thanks for reading, apologies for the text wall, but I feel it's important that you know the whole story. :biggrin:

-Matt
 
#2 ·
Glad to hear someone else takes higher mileage vehicles on road trips too! With any vehicle of that age and mileage a few problems can be expected, especially if it hasn't been maintained very well (I.E. the spark plug situation). But it sounds like you know a thing or two about your vehicle. Now onto the overheating issue. I think a big mistake made from the get go is using bars leak, I have heard nothing but bad things about that stuff. It plugs up radiators, small coolant passages and can mess with sensors. I would imagine that if you didn't have any over heating (but leaking) issues before adding the stop leak, that's what caused the problem. Even though a few coolant lines were replaced, I would imagine that the radiator is plugged up (not completely) but enough to cause the issue. I would replace the radiator and again, thoroughly flush the system. As for the radiator, I recently replaced one in my 2003 with a "Spectra Premium" from Autozone and I haven't had any troubles. Granted it has only been a month or two, but it also has a "lifetime" warranty so if it does cause me troubles, I can somewhat easily get a replacement. Whether you want to get a new aftermarket radiator or one from the junkyard should really be a matter of how much longer you're planning to use the vehicle. Hope this helps! Safe travels home!
 
#3 ·
Not that I'll be of any help, but it's nice to see someone besides myself taking a high mileage van on a devil-may-care trip. I bought my '96 3.8 about five years ago with 205k already logged in. After a going over by a mechanic, & replacing belts, hoses, & whatever else that could eminently fail, I took it on an 8000 mile venture, looping the USA. Not one problem then, & nothing major since. Now, at 240K she's still hummin' along. I hope you'll get everything straightened out, 'cause these old beasts are worth hanging on to.
 
#4 · (Edited)
The hardness in the upper radiator hose when it's hot is relatively normal but the popping is an indicator of a high temperature condition. (Think pressure-cooker). It looks like you have played it smart so far and waited for the engine to cool off before doing anything with the radiator cap or hoses. That is hopefully going to continue. Coolant can scald you badly in these situations. I think I'd do the thermostat again just to be sure it was installed properly and hasn't gotten any of the bars leak stuck on it that may have been floating around. Oh, and the ECT as well, (Engine Coolant Temp Sensor)

I've not heard the 6 month life warning on aftermarket radiators but, I don't know what they are selling in CA. I would think you can find a supplier that will warranty the product in your home state as well.

The P0700 is a engine DTC that is generic in nature. It simply alerts the MIL to turn on due to the presence of another DTC in the trans controller. i.e. since you had P0731 and P0715 on the trans side, it signals a P0700 on the engine side. Both sensors usually do not fail at the same time but, shops really hate installing one sensor and then have the customer return for the other sensor in a week or two. Not that it WILL happen, it's just burned more than one tech before.

Here's hoping for a safe return!
 
#5 ·
If you go the junkyard radiator route, I'd suggest taking it to a good radiator repair shop and getting it pressure-tested, then getting any leaks repaired before installing it in your van. I just had tranny problems with my van, something similar to yours. In my case, the problem was the solenoid pack. While they were checking out that problem, they discovered my radiator was leaking, so I had them replace that as well. I was happy to find that they installed a CSF radiator, as it has a copper/brass core instead of the usual aluminum you see today on most radiators. In addition, I had them install an auxiliary transmission cooler under the bumper, as there is no place else to install one if you have the rear a/c condensor. So far it has worked fine, with the exception that I now need to relocate the ambient temperature sensor for the CMC, as it reflects the temperature of the aux cooler instead of the outside temps.
 
#6 ·
In addition, I had them install an auxiliary transmission cooler under the bumper, as there is no place else to install one if you have the rear a/c condensor. So far it has worked fine, with the exception that I now need to relocate the ambient temperature sensor for the CMC, as it reflects the temperature of the aux cooler instead of the outside temps.
aKids2003_DGC installed a transmission cooler to the front of the van even though he has the rear A/C, but he had to cut the metal bumper to accommodate the tranny cooler, not sure if you'd feel comfortable doing that to your bumper.

Here's the video of how he did it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MGMt82u-FQ
 
#7 ·
Yes, I saw that thread. Nope, not comfortable ruining the integrity of an expensively designed bumper, which is why I didn't go that route. I don't have the skills or equipment to do such a thing anyway. There is another thread where another Arizona member mounted an auxiliary cooler under his bumper in a manner similar to mine. The secret seems to be in measuring the space available and finding a cooler that fits that very limited space. The other AZ member used a tube style cooler, while mine is a plate type. Considering the position of the cooler, I think a plate type would work better for rocks and debris, though the other member never had any problems with his before he sold it.
 
#9 ·
^^^And how's that? It was rusted out rear heater lines (common problem), which were replaced and the cooling system now holds pressure and doesn't leak, so how could it be a water pump? Heater is working, so water pump is doing it's job.

If the thermostat was upside down, the engine would GROSSLY overheat. I think the Bars' Leaks probably clogged up the radiator. I try to never use any stop leak product, because they don't fix the real problem and have the potential to do even MORE damage (like a clogged up heater core!).

Oh, by the way, the rear heater lines can be bypassed without having to remove the top of the engine. I've done it twice by removing the battery, moving battery tray and removing the air intake ducting.
 
#10 ·
I've had 2 aftermarket radiators fail internally. The stupid baffle that separates the passenger side radiator tank breaks effectively nullifying the cooling capability of the radiator. I'm on my 3rd radiator now and it is doing fine (knock on wood). Might be worth a shot.