[gravitylover]

So I have a question, I’ve done this bypass and it’s worked well for months. However, now when the car is super cold (it’s been cold in Nj) the car has a hard time starting for the first start of the day or if it sits or and gets cold soaked. Anyone else have this issue? Once it’s been run, it starts right up first crank when the engine is warm. Also on warm days starting just needs to be delayed for a few second once the keys is in the on position, I guess to prime the pump idk.

Anyone have any guesses why it’s so hard to start cold with this bypass solution?

Always turn the key to position 2 and wait for ~4 seconds for the fuel pump to prime.

 

[Rubicon789]

I'm not an expert, but my first thought would be an air/fuel measure issue, eg. mass air flow sensor, the ECU can't figure out what to feed the engine when it's cold.
I don't think it would be the fuel pump itself, because it would probably either work or not work.

Maybe provide production year and milage of your car so readers can suggest parts based on their average lifespan. Generally with starting issues, you gotta look for correct fuel, air and spark, and it's usually a pretty simple fix unless you have compression issues which is very unlikely if you do your oil changes.

Good luck

It’s a 2013 with about 220,000. I’ve done all the oil changes every 8k or so so the engine is strong.

It’s every morning when it’s cold or if it sits for a long time (hours) then is cold soaked. However, once running, it starts like new first crank every time.

 

[Rubicon789]

Sounds like the check valve in the pump assembly has gone bad and leaks out the pressure. That or a metering issue like TC mentioned. If your mileage isn't low for this time of year, I'd think metering is fine.

Agreed, colder kore dense air you could probably dump the tank in it lol. I’m not sure why it happens every time on first start of the day though.

 

[Rubicon789]

Always turn the key to position 2 and wait for ~4 seconds for the fuel pump to prime.

Oh we have that procedure down to a science lol. Usually turn on, crank once. Wait 5 seconds crank again and it will start. Unless it’s bitter cold, then it requires more reps of the same process. Once running and warm though, it starts like new. This morning was a challenge as it took about 10 times then was fine smh

 

[gravitylover]

..

 

[Rubicon789]

..

Still the same old thing. On warm days fires up without issue. Cold ones though, it take the above process still. Not sure why that is still to this day. I can't seem to figure it out.

I've even turned it to the position 2, taken the garbage can to the curb, come back and it still is the same process. First time nothing, 2nd time (sometimes) usually by the 3rd it starts, but not all the time.

Warm morning though, fires right up.

 

[Sienile]

Hmm... This will throw a code, but try unplugging the IAT sensor on the resonator box in front of the throttle body and see if it starts faster. It might be giving an invalid reading and dumping too little fuel.

 

[Rubicon789]

Hmm... This will throw a code, but try unplugging the IAT sensor on the resonator box in front of the throttle body and see if it starts faster. It might be giving an invalid reading and dumping too little fuel.

Ok i will try it tomorrow morning. Thanks for the tip.

 

[Rubicon789]

Hmm... This will throw a code, but try unplugging the IAT sensor on the resonator box in front of the throttle body and see if it starts faster. It might be giving an invalid reading and dumping too little fuel.

Ok I tried, no luck. It’s this tube hooked up to the airbox right?

 

[Westphal]

Ok I tried, no luck. It’s this tube hooked up to the airbox right? View attachment 83094

No, it's on the other side near the power steering fluid reservoir. Well, on the earlier 5th-gen vans with the 4.0 engine. That tube is for crankcase ventilation.

 

[Sienile]

No, it's on the box near the throttle body.

 

[Rubicon789]

So Odd stuff still plagues us.

-Original issue was related the the relay - fixed that all was good
-Next issues was starting, but only in the cold (sub 40 or so). The engine would crank crank crank then finally start when switching on/off/on etc.
-Then the other day when it was really cold, it literally started right up in the morning and it was in the teens, but this morning with the temp at 8 degrees, it was a total PITA to get running, once running though all good.

I will say this, the one constant is that when it's cold (first start of the day) it takes sometimes 10 times to get it to run. Once running the issue doesn't occur for the remainder of the day. I'm curious to let it sit till 130 today in the teens when i have to drive it again to see what happens. I will report back and also try the sensor with the above info. Thanks all.

 

[Sienile]

Seems you might have a bad temp sensor, either IAT or ECT.

 

[Rubicon789]

Seems you might have a bad temp sensor, either IAT or ECT.

Which one of these should I check?

I know the ECT is on the front right behind the radiator, but where’s the IAT?

total dumb question, why would it be an issue and why would it eventually start if they are bad?

 

[Sienile]

IAT is right in front of the throttle body on that resonator box. Fuel at startup is based on temperature. If it doesn't start immediately, it plays with the fuel ratio using feedback from the O2s, which will tell it it's rich.

 

[Rubicon789]

IAT is right in front of the throttle body on that resonator box. Fuel at startup is based on temperature. If it doesn't start immediately, it plays with the fuel ratio using feedback from the O2s, which will tell it it's rich.

Thanks Sienile

which one is it, the yellow or blue arrow?

 

[Sienile]

Yellow is IAT. Blue is throttle body. Will never run if you remove the throttle body connector.

 

[mwredram4x4]

It's definitely cheaper, but because it was never officially recalled on the vans they've usually pushed the TIPM replacement. That and it makes the service department more money.

I have a question about the TIPM. I have a 2011 Chrysler T&C. It functions as it should. I also have a 2013 Dodge GC that had the jumper wire setup. My question is when you first turn the van to run on the T&C, the pump you can hear for about 2 seconds then cuts off. Assuming this is a priming state to ensure that the fuel rail and injectors have proper pressure for clean start. What causes this to run for that initial 2 seconds? Is that the PCM/ECM on some kind of timed relay to energize the pump to ensure good fuel pressure at start up? If so, is it possible to tap into that wire from the PCM/ECM to energize the external relay? I like the fact that the T&C makes sure fuel pressure is up before starting. The GC as long as I have had it pump always running if in run position. The T&C the pump does not until you start it and then pump is running. Is it possible to make that functionality a reality on the GC? My understanding is if that would be possible it would take a load off of the fuel pump if left in the run position. Also doesn't take much to energize the relay for the fuel pump for that matter. Am I missing something or can this be achieved? Would you have a diagram or pinout to figure out what is actually priming the fuel pump before startup?

 

[mwredram4x4]

Oh we have that procedure down to a science lol. Usually turn on, crank once. Wait 5 seconds crank again and it will start. Unless it’s bitter cold, then it requires more reps of the same process. Once running and warm though, it starts like new. This morning was a challenge as it took about 10 times then was fine smh

I have run into the same situation with my 2013 GC. when temp dropped below 30degrees and low 20's, it would not start at all. even let the fuel pump stay running for about 10 seconds. turn the key, nothing. It would try, hit a couple times but no go. but now when you turn key on off on off on off five times , it starts right up. weird thing is 5 times is the trick , any less, will not start. I did order new fuel pump module due to a comment Sienile wrote stating check valve issue. put also along those lines maybe fuel regulator within pump assembly may be going. But yes, same issue when dropped below 30 degrees. Could that air sensor also be the cause? May change that as well just to cover all bases. Just real puzzling about the 5 key trick before it would start. I know 3 key is for diagnostics check. Weird.

 

[Sienile]

It's the Run/Start circuit. This thread is about what you are trying to do. See the first post. It includes diagrams and instructions.

The pump will always run if you use the jumper in the power outlet slot. That's probably how your DGC is.